General/Other - Johnny Cage Johnny Cage General Discussion Thread

[IrishMantis]

The SD Whiffs have no been fixed. F24 MSK, Te second mimic will still whiff, but I'm not too sure about 113. Every time I've done 113 MRS it's hit but I haven't fought many Jacqui's to know for sure.

That's good news

Try and record doing it in a match

Try doing while both chats are in opposite stances that's when it 100% whiffs

 

[ismael4790]

16bit confirmed everything in the beta will be official

You try SD much yet?

Where he confirmed that? He recently said that any buffs or nerfs are subject to change in the final version...

I'm gonna try it a bit now!

 

[IrishMantis]

Where he confirmed that? He recently said that any buffs or nerfs are subject to change in the final version...

I'm gonna try it a bit now!

Really????

Why the fuck did I read official m?

Damn don't listen to me so

 

[ismael4790]

Curious fact: When Unbreakable sub has his aura enabled and Fisticuffs Cage has Fistbump enabled, Cage's throw only does 13% instead of 17%

 

[countrypistol]

Curious fact: When Unbreakable sub has his aura enabled and Fisticuffs Cage has Fistbump enabled, Cage's throw only does 13% instead of 17%

I think EX Aura means he takes less damage. Regular is less chip only, and EX is less overall, so that would make sense. I think you can extend combos with EX activation too, so it's the one you'd likely see more of.

 

[zaccbarias]

A user told about the 114 gap in a thread but it seems it was not true.
d4 is -6 and from what I have experienced, it has more difficulties to low profile crossups or jumpins, for example. We will see what finally happens, this is just a beta.

i see. i hope they didnt hurt the range, or the plus frames it gives on hit. well atleast 114/113 retains its mini mind game. you tried f3 (4) run cancel yet? i have a gut feeling they're gonna mess with that too.

Also yey fistibuffs!

 

[Wigy]

They really need to give fisti something if that d4 nerf stays.

Also would be nice to have a safe f34 on a list for footsie purposes with d4 nerf. Not a big ask.

 

[ismael4790]

i see. i hope they didnt hurt the range, or the plus frames it gives on hit. well atleast 114/113 retains its mini mind game. you tried f3 (4) run cancel yet? i have a gut feeling they're gonna mess with that too.

Also yey fistibuffs!

I tried A-list and it feels the same, though I'm not a specialist of that variation...

They really need to give fisti something if that d4 nerf stays.

Also would be nice to have a safe f34 on a list for footsie purposes with d4 nerf. Not a big ask.

D4 nerf is going to hurt Fisticuffs A LOT if it stays...
I understand why they did it in A-List, because f3 after a d4 guarantees pressure on hit (and almost on block). But not in fisti...
-2 or -3 would be better. -6 is too much, specially if the low profiling properties are reduced.

 

[Asodimazze]

I tried A-list and it feels the same, though I'm not a specialist of that variation...



D4 nerf is going to hurt Fisticuffs A LOT if it stays...
I understand why they did it in A-List, because f3 after a d4 guarantees pressure on hit (and almost on block). But not in fisti...
-2 or -3 would be better. -6 is too much, specially if the low profiling properties are lowered.

Any character in the game gets free pressure or free 50/50 after d4 on hit, that's not exclusive to Johnny.

If they really nerfed his d4 I hope that the other characters with good low pokes share the same fate.

 

[countrypistol]

I feel it will become more of an issue if the anti airs aren't buffed. Trip guarding with low profiling moves is the best way of dealing with strong jump ins like KK, Lao, etc, without resorting to armoured moves. If there isn't some kind of jump in/anti air normalisation across the board, a general low profiling nerf will only widen the gap between the tiers.

 

[Wigy]

I tried A-list and it feels the same, though I'm not a specialist of that variation...



D4 nerf is going to hurt Fisticuffs A LOT if it stays...
I understand why they did it in A-List, because f3 after a d4 guarantees pressure on hit (and almost on block). But not in fisti...
-2 or -3 would be better. -6 is too much, specially if the low profiling properties are lowered.

People forget jc needs d4 to get any pressure going outside a list. He will need some buffs with that nerf. Mostly to his antiairs

 

[FoughtDragon01]

Other nerfs aside, it's especially disappointing Fisticuffs didn't get the love I thought it would. When I was watching the MKXL trailer, I noticed that most of the characters shown were using their 'lesser' variations (Ancestral Kung Jin, Lasher Takeda, Brood Mother D'Vorah, and Fisticuffs Johnny). I thought this was NRS's cheeky way of hinting at future buffs that would finally take these variations out of the trash bin, and while they technically buffed Fistis, it was nowhere near the rework I was expecting.

NRS is screwing with my emotions again...

 

[ismael4790]

Other nerfs aside, it's especially disappointing Fisticuffs didn't get the love I thought it would. When I was watching the MKXL trailer, I noticed that most of the characters shown were using their 'lesser' variations (Ancestral Kung Jin, Lasher Takeda, Brood Mother D'Vorah, and Fisticuffs Johnny). I thought this was NRS's cheeky way of hinting at future buffs that would finally take these variations out of the trash bin, and while they technically buffed Fistis, it was nowhere near the rework I was expecting.

NRS is screwing with my emotions again...

Yeah, I like the Fistbump enhanced throw buff, but of course Fisticuffs deserved much more, and this is not moving him from the very low tier group.

There's still probably one month until the patch including all the final changes arrives. Let's hope we find there good surprises for Fisticuffs.

 

[FoughtDragon01]

Yeah, I like the Fistbump enhanced throw buff, but of course Fisticuffs deserved much more, and this is not moving him from the very low tier group.

There's still probably one month until the patch including all the final changes arrives. Let's hope we find there good surprises for Fisticuffs.

inb4 exFistBump Speedbag block infinite.

 

[Wigy]

Got to say been abusing d4 more since all the nerf chat and it is better than i thought, but really, with this nerf he needs a better antiair, all i want.

Not sure how bad the nerf will be but if its a lot worse, his pokes will be overall garbage. Considering people like kotal have 6f pokes that loww profile and have more range.

That d4 beta nerf on fisticuffs completely eclipses his tiny ass buffs. The grab one is fantastic but considering its hard to get trait up and b12 is nearly useless its not good for him at all

 

[IrishMantis]

Just finish with a knockdown

That Fistycuffs buff has me interested to try hi m out

 

[ismael4790]

Got to say been abusing d4 more since all the nerf chat and it is better than i thought, but really, with this nerf he needs a better antiair, all i want.

Not sure how bad the nerf will be but if its a lot worse, his pokes will be overall garbage. Considering people like kotal have 6f pokes that loww profile and have more range.

That d4 beta nerf on fisticuffs completely eclipses his tiny ass buffs. The grab one is fantastic but considering its hard to get trait up and b12 is nearly useless its not good for him at all

Exactly, he has received something good, i love the grab thing, but he shouldn't be paying for it with a nerf (two indeed, he also lost his b2 special cancelable), he's already low tier and will continue to be with that grab buff.

Just finish with a knockdown

That Fistycuffs buff has me interested to try hi m out

Hehe

 

[FoughtDragon01]

Maybe with this new throw buff to Fistis, the threat of a throw will make opponents try to press buttons more, which could open them up more to f24 and 113. Funny how the variation seemingly based around a punching string looks to be leaning more towards the throw now. It really feels like NRS doesn't know what to do about this variation without making it how it was pre-patch. Hopefully it gets more to work with later down the line.

I still haven't had the chance to try low-profiling Sub's ex-Ice Ball with the beta d4 yet. Does anyone know if that's gone as well?

 

[IrishMantis]

Maybe with this new throw buff to Fistis, the threat of a throw will make opponents try to press buttons more, which could open them up more to f24 and 113. Funny how the variation seemingly based around a punching string looks to be leaning more towards the throw now. Hopefully it gets more to work with later down the line.

I still haven't had the chance to try low-profiling Sub's ex-Ice Ball with the beta d4 yet. Does anyone know if that's gone as well?

Mike said he could

 

[countrypistol]

Just finish with a knockdown

That Fistycuffs buff has me interested to try hi m out

I was looking into fisticuffs b12 armour breaking capabilities the other day (FYI he crushes all wake up armours (not X Ray) for Pred, Kotal, Takeda, Erron, Raiden, D'Vorah, Quan and Tremor, although some require precise start times), and I began to think that he is meant to be played as a knock down variation when the opponent has meter (so you can crush wake up armour), and a similar pressure game to the other two when they have less than a bar. but only against the characters I listed above.

Thoughts?

 

[ismael4790]

I was looking into fisticuffs b12 armour breaking capabilities the other day (FYI he crushes all wake up armours (not X Ray) for Pred, Kotal, Takeda, Erron, Raiden, D'Vorah, Quan and Tremor, although some require precise start times), and I began to think that he is meant to be played as a knock down variation when the opponent has meter (so you can crush wake up armour), and a similar pressure game to the other two when they have less than a bar. but only against the characters I listed above.

Thoughts?

Yes, it's probably the only reason to pick him (and even this is not a good reason because 12 also breaks many armors and leads to full combo in A-List for example). It's key in FC to know which armors you can break on wakeup, and also which armors you can nullify through the speedbag gap.

However you sacrifice all the pressure of the other two variations of Cage, because FC currently has no real pressure and no way to make 113 safe or semisafe without meter.

 

[Wigy]

I was looking into fisticuffs b12 armour breaking capabilities the other day (FYI he crushes all wake up armours (not X Ray) for Pred, Kotal, Takeda, Erron, Raiden, D'Vorah, Quan and Tremor, although some require precise start times), and I began to think that he is meant to be played as a knock down variation when the opponent has meter (so you can crush wake up armour), and a similar pressure game to the other two when they have less than a bar. but only against the characters I listed above.

Thoughts?

A list does the same with 12rc and it leads into a full combo or jails into the next string on block.

Only difference is that its a mid.

But overall is still worse since its -3 on block and has a gap after 1% chip.

 

[IrishMantis]

I was looking into fisticuffs b12 armour breaking capabilities the other day (FYI he crushes all wake up armours (not X Ray) for Pred, Kotal, Takeda, Erron, Raiden, D'Vorah, Quan and Tremor, although some require precise start times), and I began to think that he is meant to be played as a knock down variation when the opponent has meter (so you can crush wake up armour), and a similar pressure game to the other two when they have less than a bar. but only against the characters I listed above.

Thoughts?

Depends?

After a throw was the fast armour Cage can break without trading?

 

[countrypistol]

A list does the same with 12rc and it leads into a full combo or jails into the next string on block.

Only difference is that its a mid.

But overall is still worse since its -3 on block and has a gap after 1% chip.

I've had issues in SD with 12 armour breaks because you need to (with certain reversals) be close to frame perfect. B12 seems to be a little more user friendly in that respect. With meter you can hit confirm into ex nut punch for a combo after a successful armour break.

Overall he is weaker though, I can't argue there.

Depends?

After a throw was the fast armour Cage can break without trading?

I wasn't paying attention to the cut off for start up frames at the time so I can't say.

 

[IrishMantis]

I've had issues in SD with 12 armour breaks because you need to (with certain reversals) be close to frame perfect. B12 seems to be a little more user friendly in that respect. With meter you can hit confirm into ex nut punch for a combo after a successful armour break.

Overall he is weaker though, I can't argue there.



I wasn't paying attention to the cut off for start up frames at the time so I can't say.

12 if frame perfect breaks 15 and up frames

I'll check fisty now