General/Other - Johnny Cage Johnny Cage General Discussion Thread

[countrypistol]

For SD not enough time to do the things it did in the corner.
For FC there is time to enable the chip buff, the setups are there.

The point is, why remove an option from such a limited variation? b2 being special cancelable was not a threat in FC.

I think Mantis's suspicions are right in that they want to remove the hard to blockables (fingers crossed for Quan's bullshit to go) etc, and they want the hard knock down to be used to set up traits only, or dash in, etc.

If that's the case I'm fine with it.

 

[ismael4790]

I think Mantis's suspicions are right in that they want to remove the hard to blockables (fingers crossed for Quan's bullshit to go) etc, and they want the hard knock down to be used to set up traits only.

I agree, SD triggered this of course.
But is it so hard for nrs to treat a normal move a bit different in each variation? I mean, b2 in A-list works in a different way (it can be charged), so...
Why in Fisticuffs the move can't keep being special cancelable?

I wouldn't mind this option removed if FC got something useful in exchange, like a significantly buffed speedbag or fistbump, or the most desired ex fistbump. But at the moment, taking all into account (the change of frames in speedbag and fistbump is very very light), we can say he has been nerfed.

 

[countrypistol]

I agree, SD triggered this of course.
But is it so hard for nrs to treat a normal move a bit different in each variation? I mean, b2 in A-list works in a different way (it can be charged), so...
Why in Fisticuffs the move can't remain being special cancelable?

Kano has a 32 that acts differently per variation, so I don't see why not. Even before the last patch, 32 in Commando kept the opponent standing, but in Cyber and CT it knocked down.

But then we've been told before that Fisticuffs is fine. Maybe we're all just playing him wrong....

 

[Asodimazze]

I think Mantis's suspicions are right in that they want to remove the hard to blockables (fingers crossed for Quan's bullshit to go) etc, and they want the hard knock down to be used to set up traits only, or dash in, etc.

If that's the case I'm fine with it.

You're thinking too much into it. NRS didn't consider hard to blockables setups AT ALL when making this change...
They made b2 non cancellable just because as a general rule all the moves that cause a hard knockdown are not cancellable. Think about Hollywood f34, it was nerfed just like b2.

 

[countrypistol]

You're thinking too much into it. NRS didn't consider hard to blockables setups AT ALL when making this change...
They made b2 non cancellable just because as a general rule all the moves that cause a hard knockdown are not cancellable. Think about Hollywood f34, it was nerfed just like b2.

And if THAT'S the case, then I'm not fine with it.

 

[IrishMantis]

You're thinking too much into it. NRS didn't consider hard to blockables setups AT ALL when making this change...
They made b2 non cancellable just because as a general rule all the moves that cause a hard knockdown are not cancellable. Think about Hollywood f34, it was nerfed just like b2.

B2 is not a hard knockdown

 

[countrypistol]

B2 is not a hard knockdown

Does it just have good hit advantage?

 

[IrishMantis]

Does it just have good hit advantage?

Yes... Set AI to tech roll and you will see, the fact you where able to cancel to it made it appear as s HKD now it will just be a move with a long animation

So set the AI to tech roll and do B2 and not cancel it while holding up

 

[Asodimazze]

B2 is not a hard knockdown

Yeah, I used the wrong term.
How should I call the moves that send the opponent fullscreen rolling on the ground?

Like Goro b121, which is also non cancellable

 

[countrypistol]

Yes... Set AI to tech roll and you will see, the fact you where able to cancel to it made it appear as s HKD now it will just be a move with a long animation

So set the AI to tech roll and do B2 and not cancel it while holding up

Maybe it's been changed to a HKD now, hence the removal of the cancel window?

 

[IrishMantis]

I'm not complaining with the decision

But Johnny loses his stigma of every normal has a use as B2 is useless now, because you much better to opt 121 for more dmg and advantage now

 

[IrishMantis]

Yeah, I used the wrong term.
How should I call the moves that send the opponent fullscreen rolling on the ground?

Like Goro b121, which is also non cancellable

Yeah I know what you meant

But why now? Again not complaining just curious

 

[IrishMantis]

Man fucking seriously?

I update my thread with a write up and evidence it's already gone of the list lol

 

[IrishMantis]

Maybe it's been changed to a HKD now, hence the removal of the cancel window?

That's a possibility actually good thinking

 

[Asodimazze]

Yeah I know what you meant

But why now? Again not complaining just curious

They might change b2 now simply because they forgot about patching it in the last months. Most of the changes they do have no good reasons at all.

They buffed Quan Chi with every patch (the d1 change was hilarious), buffed Tempest, killed fisticuff after the variation placed top 8 just once, never really touched useless variations like Ancestral or High Tech etc....there is no need to look for a particular reason when NRS changes stuff

 

[ismael4790]

Okey, finally I found something good and innovative for Fisti in the beta. With Fistbump enabled, Fisticuffs gets the 17% throw
Nice idea that hope it stays in the final version. Tested many times to check it was not a bug.
Also checked speedbag's gap and it seems to still be there.

 

[IrishMantis]

Okey, finally I found something good and innovative for Fisti in the beta. With Fistbump enabled, Fisticuffs gets the 17% throw
Nice idea that hope it stays in the final version. Tested many times to check it was not a bug.
Also checked speedbag's gap and it's still there.

Is it just fistycuffs that gets the buff?

 

[ismael4790]

Is it just fistycuffs that gets the buff?

Hmmm...I don't know, maybe db4 also does for Stunt double, but I doubt it. I'll check today.

 

[IrishMantis]

Hmmm...I don't know, maybe db4 also does for Stunt double, but I doubt it. I'll check today.

Oh wait I misread

That's sick bro
I also heard JC gets 17% in red mode so I wonder what Fisty gets in red mode unless people are confusing Fisty with red mode

 

[coconutshrimp]

Red Johnny throws also do 17% damage. So my question, if you have fisti bump and 5% how much damage does your throw do?

 

[ismael4790]

Red Johnny throws also do 17% damage. So my question, if you have fisti bump and 5% how much damage does your throw do?

I'll try to test that, would be cool if both boosts added damage and gave like a 20% throw or more xD

 

[zaccbarias]

so are the nerfs confirmed, after all? 114 gap, d4 not low profiling? thanks.

 

[ismael4790]

so are the nerfs confirmed, after all? 114 gap, d4 not low profiling? thanks.

A user told about the 114 gap in a thread but it seems it was not true.
d4 is -6 and from what I have experienced, it has more difficulties to low profile crossups or jumpins, for example. We will see what finally happens, this is just a beta.

 

[IrishMantis]

A user told about the 114 gap in a thread but it seems it was not true.
d4 is -6 and from what I have experienced, it has more difficulties to low profile crossups or jumpins, for example. We will see what finally happens, this is just a beta.

16bit confirmed everything in the beta will be official

You try SD much yet?

 

[coconutshrimp]

16bit confirmed everything in the beta will be official

You try SD much yet?

The SD Whiffs have no been fixed. F24 MSK, Te second mimic will still whiff, but I'm not too sure about 113. Every time I've done 113 MRS it's hit but I haven't fought many Jacqui's to know for sure.