General/Other - Johnny Cage Johnny Cage General Discussion Thread

[M.D.]

Indeed I use a lot of throws in cancels on kotal, and then zoning until I can get another cancel going into throw.
The biggest pain is when he starts parrying the zoning, then one mistake and bye bye 50%

 

[coconutshrimp]

I don't know if this is a bug or if it is intentional.

 

[Asodimazze]

What are the changes to Johnny? Can someone with the Beta test him?

 

[RyuKazuya]

What are the changes to Johnny? Can someone with the Beta test him?

since breaker takes both players stamina might change johnnys offensive play. But i dont think it will be a problem.

 

[countrypistol]

since breaker takes both players stamina might change johnnys offensive play. But i dont think it will be a problem.

It'll give the opponent some respite from the pressure, but it could also give SD and FC a chance to activate mimics/fist bump.

 

[coconutshrimp]

Did they fix the stance whiffs?

 

[MKF30]

What's Cage's easiest variation? Fistacuffs?

 

[coconutshrimp]

What's Cage's easiest variation? Fistacuffs?

Fisticuffs is his easiest but it has practically nothing to it.

 

[IrishMantis]

Did they fix the stance whiffs?

No official word yet but @AK L0rdoftheFLY has not come across it whiffing yet

So all signs are good

 

[Dizzy]

4 xx Mimic Summon xx Mimic Shadow Kick allows you to block all of War God Kotal's armor so SD gets free mimic pressure after a nut punch. This can be done against any char with slow armor.

Also make sure to punish any f1b2. You can EX nut punch him out of almost any cancel and it also punishes the move. F1 does beat d4 in the midscreen footsies game so you have to respect it a bit.

 

[coconutshrimp]

What about S1 whiffs? I'm not sure if this one will get fixed but could because it can happen with any characters S1 if I'm not mistaken.

 

[MKF30]

Fisticuffs is his easiest but it has practically nothing to it.

Oh I see, thanks was thinking of practicing with him. I only tried out his stunt double and the one where he charges.

 

[mrKrucifix]

Oh I see, thanks was thinking of practicing with him. I only tried out his stunt double and the one where he charges.

Fisticuffs is basically the same move set as A-List (the chargy one) only nothing can be charged, some of the specials have a few different properties, and you get 1 new special (Fist Bump, increases chip) and 1 new string (Speedbag, aka B1212121212121212121212...).

 

[ismael4790]

What's Cage's easiest variation? Fistacuffs?

Fisticuffs is easy to learn, but you will find you need to effort 300% to get wins because he's basically shit in that variation.

Unless a strange attraction pushes you to pick FC, stay away of the variation until (if some day happens) nrs buffes it.

 

[coconutshrimp]

Fisticuffs is easy to learn, but you will find you need to effort 300% to get wins because he's basically shit in that variation.

Unless a strange attraction pushes you to pick FC, stay away of the variation until (if ever happens) nrs buffes it.

I felt like he should've used the brass knuckles more than for b121...... I think he should've had something like a tick throw or something like that with the brass knuckles. But this variation needs more help than fixing b121..... imo. EX Fistbump is the most obvious thing, and most likely, buff, but that doesn't really help give him an edge in certain MUs imo.

 

[ismael4790]

I felt like he should've used the brass knuckles more than for b121...... I think he should've had something like a tick throw or something like that with the brass knuckles. But this variation needs more help than fixing b121..... imo. EX Fistbump is the most obvious thing, and most likely, buff, but that doesn't really help give him an edge in certain MUs imo.

Exactly. Until now, nrs has put 0 effort in this variation. What pisses me off the most is that the potential was huge.
A problem arised, and they went for the easy and radical way nerfing him to the ground, when there were lots of possibilities and fair changes for him they could have opted for.

If this patch gives nothing to him, there are very few chances he ever gets what he deserves, which is really sad. I never expected FC to be better than any of the other two variations, just to be decent and playable, a mid or mid-low tier. Not a trash tier. But seems that's too much to ask.

 

[countrypistol]

How are people approaching getting in against heavy zoners at full screen with SD without meter? I'm talking characters with mid/low projectiles like Tempest, HQT, Quan, Tremor that are difficult to react to.

@IrishMantis R1 told me to ask you. Said you agree with him that SD doesn't struggle against zoning full screen.

 

[IrishMantis]

How are people approaching getting in against heavy zoners at full screen with SD without meter? I'm talking characters with mid/low projectiles like Tempest, HQT, Quan, Tremor that are difficult to react to.

@IrishMantis R1 told me to ask you. Said you agree with him that SD doesn't struggle against zoning full screen.

Shit did I say that ? Man I need to stop talking bollix sometimes

Well it is and it isn't against them chars you name he does fine. Obviously Ex SK does the job but you don't always got meter

Quan zoning does well but the pay off for getting is rewarded so much it cancels it out

Pred zoning you need to make a read as his low projectiles travel frames are not active do you can actually run on read and when you get in GGs Pred

Tremor all you need to fear is that rolling Boulder 1 rule never jump it just block and dash till you get to a 3rd of the screen, you now can play neutral with him

But in saying that zoning is one of the sole reasons LK is SDs worst MU as starting from full screen he will always build enough neter to breaker every time you get and get a lot if chip dmg, you jump it recovers so fast he can free AA you

And although not bad MUs Cyber and Shaolin can give SD problems of actually getting in

 

[coconutshrimp]

Anyone know what I can do to Takeda? What I'm thinking is 114 after blocking a close kunai since Takeda is Minus 2 and no Takeda I've seen just started blocking when a Kunai is blocked.

 

[coconutshrimp]

SD and fisticuffs B2 has been nerfed. No more corner armor breaks. You can no longer special cancel b2.

 

[coconutshrimp]

I think red Johnny grabs in the beta do 17%. I'm not 100%, the scenario I remember is being at 5% (duh) doing 11 into grab and the grab doing 17%. I was playing SD. I will test it out more to see if this is true.

 

[ismael4790]

SD and fisticuffs B2 has been nerfed. No more corner armor breaks. You can no longer special cancel b2.

Yes, I noticed too. This is unfair for SD and absurd for Fisticuffs. I tended to use b2~exforceball which was a blockstring with a weird pause that caught many people off guard. Why removing this, why?

If b2 being special cancelable is problematic in SD, remove it there, but not from FC. I hope they find a way to solve problems without hurting variations that don't deserve it.

 

[countrypistol]

After a b2 hard knock down is there enough time to activate the buffs before the opponent stands? (I'm asking about the beta)

 

[IrishMantis]

After a b2 hard knock down is there enough time to activate the buffs before they stand? (I'm asking about the beta)

Yes but not enough to armour break

I came to terms with the nerf now at first I thought it was a huge nerf but now I'm thinking its a bit silly to do all that stuff in 1.
They possibly removed Quans too so I ain't mad

 

[ismael4790]

Is there time after a b2 hard knock down is there enough time to activate the buffs before they stand?

For SD not enough time to do the things it did in the corner.
For FC there is time to enable the chip buff, the setups are there.

The point is, why remove an option from such a limited variation? b2 being special cancelable was not a threat in FC. And if you remove it...why don't give him something relevant in exchange?