Match-up Discussion JimmyPotato Arrow Pre "Big Patch" Match Chart

[Jimmypotato]

All THIS TALK MAKES ME WANT TO PLAY MORE ARROW!!!!! lol I'm going to look more into the Doomsday match up, Batman, Hawkgirl, as these were the ones people had the best arguements on.

 

[Scoot Magee]

My main problem is that when everyone learns how to block arrows shit he wont really have a way to inflict damage outside of throw setups lol. That's obviously exaggerated but when it comes to strings he doesn't have much going on in terms of mixup. Without being able to hit with f2d1xxarrow/f2d13 on fuzzy guard you really don't have a solid way to land his normal arrows up close. Without being able to land those arrows up close you cant really get in a b23 or a b13. Even with b13 getting a hard to escape super it's almost useless against characters with fast long range d1's.

There's little things you can do to get an arrow once in a while but it requires so much conditioning and a good read. It's way more work than other characters.

 

[Jimmypotato]

There are too many matchups that I don't agree with to go in depth.

I would love to hear your thoughts, but I think you are a serial uplayer because you think Nightwing is 5-5

 

[Scoot Magee]

Thats the thing that sucks the nuts, getting that one to hit, with the speed that Bats activates trait, and and how fast he gets just one bat and the effectivness of that one bat, I dunno man, just feels hopeless. I actually prefer rush down Batmans, them I can deal with better then the zoning.

I'll tell you that i'd much rather fight Batman than Lex. I think Lex might be his worst match in the game up there with Adam and Superman. Against lex it's a constant battle to stop him from getting armor. Once he gets armor 1 time at at least mid range you're pretty much going to lose the game, it's really that bad.

 

[Jimmypotato]

My main problem is that when everyone learns how to block arrows shit he wont really have a way to inflict damage outside of throw setups lol. That's obviously exaggerated but when it comes to strings he doesn't have much going on in terms of mixup. Without being able to hit with f2d1xxarrow/f2d13 on fuzzy guard you really don't have a solid way to land his normal arrows up close. Without being able to land those arrows up close you cant really get in a b23 or a b13. Even with b13 getting a hard to escape super it's almost useless against characters with fast long range d1's.

There's little things you can do to get an arrow once in a while but it requires so much conditioning and a good read. It's way more work than other characters.

yes exactly. and when you do get those little things you are already behind the 8 ball. Almost all the people I do play are pretty good at blocking Arrows shit, and I have to be random as hell now just to keep up. People probably won't get there in the blocking department and reactions because it does take practice, just like blocking Doomsdays overhead low move, you have to practice that shit. Like I've said before, Arrow thrives of lack of knowledge and skill from other players in the match up. Great character from Launch - 6months down the road, but with the rest of the cast being what they are, well, it's Injustice lol. If he wasn't so much damn fun to play.

Read your follow up post in this chart explaining you're dropping Arrow, that's a shame :/.

I'm actually curious, who are you picking up next?

MMH

 

[Scoot Magee]

I would love to hear your thoughts, but I think you are a serial uplayer because you think Nightwing is 5-5

Hey I though Nightwing was 5-5 and that's after playing CD for a while. I had so many problems with that match forever but I got a grasp on it. It could possibly be a 6-4 but it feels even to me.

 

[Red Reaper]

My main problem is that when everyone learns how to block arrows shit he wont really have a way to inflict damage outside of throw setups lol. That's obviously exaggerated but when it comes to strings he doesn't have much going on in terms of mixup. Without being able to hit with f2d1xxarrow/f2d13 on fuzzy guard you really don't have a solid way to land his normal arrows up close. Without being able to land those arrows up close you cant really get in a b23 or a b13. Even with b13 getting a hard to escape super it's almost useless against characters with fast long range d1's.

There's little things you can do to get an arrow once in a while but it requires so much conditioning and a good read. It's way more work than other characters.

Yeah and after D1 or D1~arrow. They kan disrespectfully jump if you F2D13 and the D1 would wiff. If they backdash a lot of characters kan punish it on the recovery even if you end on the second hit. Actually ESPECIALLY if you end on the second hit.

B13 and B23 also lost to jumps after D1 or D1~arrow on hit.

He has to make reads just to not get blown up ON HIT. And that's one of the reasons Batman does so well against Arrow, because his jump is ridiculous and he has a great back dash so you're severely limited.

 

[Espio]

Yes, once I learned the match up, I believe it to be 5-5,




What Nightwings do you play? That shit aint even. I used to think GL was 5-5, then I played a good GL. If you dont think he loses to grundy you havent played a complete one yet. Same with WW.




Honeslty man, a full on zoning batman can just fuck Arrow. you can't even get lightning Arrow loaded up for a trade. With His trait bats, Batarang and MB batarang, along with grapple hook. I haven't seen that many people Zone 100% effectivly with Batman, but when they do, by the time you get in, and have to deal with the rest of his shit, he is at life advantage that just cant be made up with Arrow. Also with no Viable AA option vs Batman when he goes on the offensive you just have to sit there and Block properly to just to try and get a D1~Arrow to get pressure going again which can be blown up, because Arrow lacks a good fast full punishing combo that cant be mashed out of without Ice Arrow loaded. King played this match up super good vs Chris G at summer Jam I think it was. The big problem here is needing to load an arrow in the first place.



Some great points and a great write up my friend, the reason I have this at 6-4 is because I can load Arrows and shoot them faster then you can do anything. Arrow can run like a bitch in this match better then Hawkgirl can, and with Fire Arrow being 8% it does well in this match up. SavageBlast allows me space to load arrows and I can do it with time to block Mace Charge since she seems to like doing a loop d loop to let you know she's coming in. Arrows forward Dash is also huge in this match for closing distance when she does try to get away and Arrow needs to make up life. Shooting tons of normal Arrows keeps the wing evade shenanigans down. And with the reach of J3 she can't really fly at all unless she is full screen and in that case I've already fired 3 fire arrows at dat ass. There are still a couple resets that wing evade does not get out of . I will revisit this match up for you though, as my last xp with a good hawk girl was about 60 matches a month ago. Chongo Plays Nightwing lol

PS, her D1 and her D2 are her best tools in this match up IMO. When I know people KNOW how to blow up D1~Arrow, then it's really fun, because I can just D1 to bait their D1 then Poke back to punish that, once I show that then the upclose and sweep to dash distance game becomes really fun, and not just a mash fest.

Thanks, we need to play a long set lol, I'm curious to face your Arrow. I find it hard to not write lengthy replies sadly .

As I said earlier, he just stops her from flying carelessly and she shouldn't be hovering over him in range of jump 3 unless she has already knocked him down to be honest. He has multiple ways to blow up careless flight.

Keep in mind if she reads savage blast she can MB mace charge and be at around +10 and if you try pressing buttons after savage blast you get tagged for an easy 21% unclashable, even if you do block the overhead follow up you're still at disadvantage and open to her pressure. Savage blast is good for getting away and setting up arrows, but if she scouts it she stays in and with a lot of frame advantage or possible big damage, that's about the equivalent of some of Green Arrow's combos for one bar and advantage.

Loading his trait arrows takes time and unless you do it off of set ups that allows me to approach or sneak in potential damage and the chip damage on regular arrows is very weak as well as hit damage so you will want to get those trait arrows going asap otherwise you're not going to discourage me from playing my game or scared to take risks to get around your zoning (don't necessarily have to unless I'm down on life by a notable margin though).

I only mentioned wing evading out of Super set ups because it limits the options for which ones you can perform on her. It effectively weakens one of his tools, not by a huge margin mind you...though it still makes him think more.

I've played several other Green Arrows besides Chongo over the months, but people can be incredibly competent with more than one character and he certainly is for sure. I was able to figure out the match up and my write up/breakdown in large part from playing him .

 

[Scoot Magee]

Also some of these matches can shift to 5-5 depending on the stages. I think GL can be a 5-5 match on certain stages for sure.

But I do say all this now as people do not fuzzy guard GA and I get most of my damage from f2d13 mix ups lol.

 

[Jimmypotato]

I'll tell you that i'd much rather fight Batman than Lex. I think Lex might be his worst match in the game up there with Adam and Superman. Against lex it's a constant battle to stop him from getting armor. Once he gets armor 1 time at at least mid range you're pretty much going to lose the game, it's really that bad.

I agree, and when you make that point I would rather fight Batman then Lex, I still think bats is fucking fucky, he even has a gat damn parry to F you up if you do get in lol. But yes, Lex is a nightmare for Arrow, I'm going to switch that number.

 

[Jimmypotato]

Also some of these matches can shift to 5-5 depending on the stages. I think GL can be a 5-5 match on certain stages for sure.

100%, I tried to think of them with no interactables.

 

[Jimmypotato]

changed my Doomsday, Hawkgirl , Lex, due to excellent arguments and logic from some great players and posters.

 

[Jimmypotato]

Hey I though Nightwing was 5-5 and that's after playing CD for a while. I had so many problems with that match forever but I got a grasp on it. It could possibly be a 6-4 but it feels even to me.

I would think it's 5-5 if it wasn't for staff mode shutting Arrow the fuck down. Escrima vs Arrow would be 5-5. strangly, this is probably the match up I have played the most, so I feel comfortable in 4-6.

 

[Phosferrax]

Wait.... 3-7 against Lex? I disagree. Can you explain your reasoning on that one?

Also I disagree about Nightwing, it's a MU based on the life lead. Nightwing can't use staff mode because he can't do anything about the regular arrow spam. Literally nothing as his mobility is so bad in staff stance, he can't jump and he can't zone. That means that if you have the life lead then he has to be in escrima stance and he has to come to you.

 

[Scoot Magee]

Wait.... 3-7 against Lex? I disagree. Can you explain your reasoning on that one?

Also I disagree about Nightwing, it's a MU based on the life lead. Nightwing can't use staff mode because he can't do anything about the regular arrow spam. Literally nothing as his mobility is so bad in staff stance, he can't jump and he can't zone. That means that if you have the life lead then he has to be in escrima stance and he has to come to you.

I posted a huge thing on it in the matchup thread plus some info here. It's mostly because of not being able to stop him with armor.

 

[Jimmypotato]

Wait.... 3-7 against Lex? I disagree. Can you explain your reasoning on that one?

Also I disagree about Nightwing, it's a MU based on the life lead. Nightwing can't use staff mode because he can't do anything about the regular arrow spam. Literally nothing as his mobility is so bad in staff stance, he can't jump and he can't zone. That means that if you have the life lead then he has to be in escrima stance and he has to come to you.

Lots of lex talk in this thread if you read back.

The ground pound, flying grayson and 6frame D1 in staffmode. you don't win damage trade with regular arrow vs ground pound, and you can't load an arrow because he can reaction ground pound that ass and hit the ex for more, Also his J1 or 2, cant remember which one, the one where he extends the staff as he hops, will actually trade or beat out arrows jump moves most of the time. Upclose you will eventually have to burn a bar to push block because of the retardation of staffmodes pressure. Also backdashing most of the things he does don't work as well for Arrow as they do for other characters because Arrow doesn't go anywhere because his backdash is ass, you are already getting hit by the next shit before you can get a move out or block after you back dash.

 

[Phosferrax]

Lots of lex talk in this thread if you read back.

The ground pound, flying grayson and 6frame D1 in staffmode. you don't win damage trade with regular arrow vs ground pound, and you can't load an arrow because he can reaction ground pound that ass and hit the ex for more, Also his J1 or 2, cant remember which one, the one where he extends the staff as he hops, will actually trade or beat out arrows jump moves most of the time. Upclose you will eventually have to burn a bar to push block because of the retardation of staffmodes pressure. Also backdashing most of the things he does don't work as well for Arrow as they do for other characters because Arrow doesn't go anywhere because his backdash is ass, you are already getting hit by the next shit before you can get a move out or block after you back dash.

But the thing is all those things are in staff mode. He can't do anything, literally nothing. He can't even get a trade of off ground pound. If you have the life lead, just spam arrows to get them out of staff stance, seriously. I really struggled with this MU because of staff stance as well, but I started playing for the life lead and spamming arrows and was surprised to find he actually can't do anything but block in SS.

 

[NRF CharlieMurphy]

If you don't think WW rapes him, play WW offline where her frame traps can't be d1'd and she doesn't have to guess dash/jump to get around GA's putrid "zoning"

If you dont' think Grundy beats him.... you need to face someone who understands that Frame traps mean nothing to Grundy... and Savage Blast is free to MB Swamp Hands.

 

[TakeAChance]

But the thing is all those things are in staff mode. He can't do anything, literally nothing. He can't even get a trade of off ground pound. If you have the life lead, just spam arrows to get them out of staff stance, seriously. I really struggled with this MU because of staff stance as well, but I started playing for the life lead and spamming arrows and was surprised to find he actually can't do anything but block in SS.

It's distance specific. But yes, you can shut down NW with horizontal projectiles...A lot of characters can.

But if a Nightwing is going to sit there and not take a hit to get into escrima (2%) where most of his mobility lies, then they are not playing Nightwing to the fullest.

Arrow doesn't have a low hit box. That means he is one 112, d12, or long screen flying grayson from getting pressure with staff stance. I never struggle to much in the matchup.

 

[Phosferrax]

It's distance specific. But yes, you can shut down NW with horizontal projectiles...A lot of characters can.

But if a Nightwing is going to sit there and not take a hit to get into escrima (2%) where most of his mobility lies, then they are not playing Nightwing to the fullest.

It's not about trying to lock them down, it's getting them out of SS so GA can actually play.

 

[TakeAChance]

It's not about trying to lock them down, it's getting them out of SS so GA can actually play.

Right, But I am saying that NW has no problem getting INTO staff stance in the matchup.

 

[Phosferrax]

Right, But I am saying that NW has no problem getting INTO staff stance in the matchup.

If NW has the lifelead then that is a problem, but if Arrow is sitting on the lead then it doesn't matter if you have trouble getting into SS or not, NW can't use that stance.

 

[Jimmypotato]

But the thing is all those things are in staff mode. He can't do anything, literally nothing. He can't even get a trade of off ground pound. If you have the life lead, just spam arrows to get them out of staff stance, seriously. I really struggled with this MU because of staff stance as well, but I started playing for the life lead and spamming arrows and was surprised to find he actually can't do anything but block in SS.

Dude, he can get trade with ground pound from most distances after blocking an arrow if you are just going to spam them. . I especially wouldn't be spamming normal arrows as you are trading 1% damage against him and eating 5%. Fire arrow you atleast win the trade, but again, he can just block and you only get .70 chip per fire arrow, then he can ground pound if you go to reload. Chip on block of normal arrow is .10, and like Chance said, if he wan'ts to get to Escrima whats 1% damage from a normal Arrow to do it and get back in to get back into staff stance and pressure.

 

[Jimmypotato]

If NW has the lifelead then that is a problem, but if Arrow is sitting on the lead then it doesn't matter if you have trouble getting into SS or not, NW can't use that stance.

Dude, you can't spam arrows at him in either stance your gonna eat wingdings in Escrima as well. It might work for a hit or 2 but you are not gonna keep him out or do enough damage to change the tide.

Maybe if they are like 5-10% from death, but like with a 20% life lead mid match with the damage and options NW had, I would be looking for other options.

I want to play these night wings that you play that just walk into your arrows or sit there and block.

 

[Breakin Wordzz]

I dissagree I can dash in after ducking your fireballs, yes you can MB for the over head so I have to stand block it, but the push back isn't enough to keep me out, Arrows forward dash to stronk. Also teleport is easy to blow up. This is why I have it at 5-5. Also Blocked B1 is punished by D1 Arrow.

why would i just do a b1? i would do b1 mb dark energy or b1 d4 or just do b13. why would i teleport to get in if i want to zone you? are you going to stand block that on reaction?