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Is the DC Film Universe getting a bad rep?

SM StarGazer

The voice of reason in a Sea of Salt
In contrast, DC wants to make "films," or movies that appeal to a different, more "mature" crowd with "darker" themes. It's all BS because they don't bother establishing characters as much as they appear to be.

Look at MoS. We have Clark Kent, a character traditionally defined as an Alien who got a sense of good put in him by loving parents who cared for him despite his Alien status and put him on the right path. Now if you want to deviate from that, that's totally cool; it's not really the Superman I particularly want to see but I'm willing to ignore that if they can portray it in an interesting way. Instead, they went absolutely batty (pun intended).

Clark Kent in these new movies is now told from a young age to NOT HELP PEOPLE because the world "couldn't handle it" by Pa Kent. Okay...cool, I guess. Pa Kent then stupidly dies protecting people because he told his son not to. Urge to kill...rising. Then his long dead real father shows up and tells him "Look man, bring some help to the little people," and now it's cool? Clark has no values; he spent 33 years confused about his role in life because his villainous dad wouldn't let him use his powers, and now his ghost dad says the very obvious opposite and now it's cool? And then in the next movie they double down by having his mom say screw the world "you owe them nothing"? Screw that. He's an all powerful dummy.

To go along with this absurd notion, we have an abundance of Christ imagery that is supposed to make the movie feel "mature" but is eye rolling. Whether it be Clark pointing out he's 33 or him standing in a stained glass window with his head where Jesus' is, or falling out of an open spaceship with his arms out evoking the imagery of the Lord in his usual pose. Its cliche and false, doing little for the movie other than to provide yet another reason to be mature.

I'll give it props in that it does action right. The big fight scenes between the Kryptonians are splendid and look like DBZ fights come to life, which is very cool. Unfortunately I feel that's the only good part of a movie masquerading as a mature "dark film" that instead is as pedestrian and safe as any other superhero movie, only minus the charm and good characters. DC needs to go back to the drawing board, bad.
Let me break this down: Pa Kent was protecting his SON from this vicious cold world. If you watched closely he let Clark know that this World isn't ready for someone like him yet. Think about it in real world standards...How would humanity react to a being of such power. We would call for him to do our dirty work. Kill this guy cause he's bad, destroy this, do this, do that. We would try and force this being to submit to our will, as they expressed in BvS. Pa Kent stated that you can't save them all, nor will you ever be able to. Think about this: If Superman really wanted to SAVE the world it WOULD ALWAYS LOOK LIKE INJUSTICE. We as humans refuse to be tied down and controlled. If Supes said "Stop killing." 100 people would walk outside and shoot someone just for the fuck of it, just so they wouldn't be seen 'submitting'. Tell me I'm wrong? Thought so. He wanted his SON to live a NORMAL HUMAN LIFE. He died PROTECTING his son, that why I love DC. Its real and asks you hard questions.

Here comes Computer Dad telling Clark the opposite as you stated. "Your a light that can save this tiny horrid planet, but its YOUR CHOICE. Just like Mama Kent said: "You don't owe these motherfuckers a bitchass thing, but if you choose this path then DO IT. BE THEIR GOD." it's the same shit Jesus went through.

"Are these people worthy of saving?"
"Do they DESERVE to be saved?"
"Why me?"
"I didn't ASK for this power yet I have it...what should I do?"

Superman's true fight has ALWAYS been with himself. ALWAYS. You say Clark has no values. Fuck no my brother. Its his values that are literally crushing him. Take the scene when trucker dude pours beer on Clark's head. Its like spitting in God's face, a physical and visual representation of humanity malicious intents, he could have vaped dude JUST LIKE GOD COULD WIPE US OUT, but what does he do? He punishes his truck...that is a representation of how God punishes humans. Its not always direct yet it still holds merit because that truck was helping you survive. Did he kill him? No? Should he have? No? Superman IS a god...period.

Think about what Jor-El said while Supes was learning to fly. "They will flock behind you. They will stumble, they will fall, you YOU can help ten see the light of the world." That is basically saying this: Humans are ass-tier cuckloads, they kill each other for nothing, take from the world without even thinking about giving back, they are selfish, ignorant, arrogant, and most can't see a motherfucking thing unless you literally spell it out for them. They suck. Nevertheless they love, fight for one another, come together for each others sake, and stand strong in the face of adversity. There IS beauty in their struggle, that is life, now show them that there is EVEN MORE they have yet to know. MoS was a great movie as was BvS(ult addition). DC NEVER spells shit out in simple black and white. Never. That is why Marvel has a wonderful rep, its easy, force feed, and doesn't want you to see how SCARY that shit is.

Also don't compare Capt to Supes. Look at it like Capt to Bat, and Vision to Supes. Makes more sense now right? Two pillars that plant themselves against all odds. Vision and Supes however are Gods dealing with the fact that they are unique and live in a World made of Cardboard. It sucks to be them.

DC is a mature series. Read Blackest Night, Brightest Day, Injustice, Rebirth, etc, etc. DC an it with that kiddy shit. People die when we fuck up and we have to live with that. It took Marvel 10 movies to even address the lives lost, it was like: 'We won. Let's party, eat, and get laid." DC was like: "DUDE OMFG PEOPLE ARE DIEING, FUUUUCCCKKKK OMG WHAT IS HAPPENING. THIS ISNT RIGHT WE NEED TO HANDLE THIS." BVS is born and does just that. That should tell you something about DC's storytelling, or mine. Maybe I'll write the next few DC movies. Anybody interested?
 

xInfra Deadx

The laws of the universe mean nothing.
I loved Batfleck. He was the best thing in the whole Batman v Superman movie...of course though, the rest of the movie has major problems.

- It takes about an hour for Batman v Superman to be Batman v Superman...and that's too long.

- Nerdy Lex is a terrible Lex, which in turn is inadvertantly trying to be Joker.

- Senator Finch and Lex relationship in turn is about as creepy as Final Fantasy villains disguising themselves as teenagers.

- Superman's hearing powers only kick in for plot conveniences.

- Lois being deevolved to a divine knowledge prop.

- MARTHA! No further explanation needed.

- Zod. Turned. Into. Doomsday. Fucking. Called. It. (It's so stupid. It really is.)

- Lex even being allowed to tamper with Zod's body in that alien spaceship has got to be one of the biggest oversights in this movie...although i'm not going to go on a rant on why that's so stupid.

- The whole Lex blackmailing Superman into fighting Batman is just...ugh.

- Doomsday looking like a real bad plastic crossover of Slash from TMNT and Abomination from Hulk. Also, He should have what should be a massive [PHRASING]. They couldn't have thought to give him some shorts?

- Superman not dead cliche. I am so sick of this one.

Overall, a 4/10. It's just...bad.

Man of Steel is like...the one Playboy model that everyone is indifferent to. She's there, but who gives a shit.

I didn't see Suicide Squad yet, although i'm planning to go see it tomorrow.
 

Jynks

some heroes are born, some made, some wondrous
Well comics are over for the year right? My Top 10 list is nearly identical apart form American Spender falling off the bottom. I mean that is a FANTASTIC film, it used to be near the top, but it has been dropping each year as I just do not watch it very often. I see it on my comic film shelf and grab a different movie

Best Comic Book Movies + The Worst ( <= 2016 )


Rules
  • Has to be originally a comic (EG: can not pick Star Wars)
  • Has to be a theatrical release Film (not a TV show or TV Movie version, BluRay Cuts of theatre releases are ok)
  • Has to be live action
  1. Watchmen
  2. From Hell
  3. Lone Wolf and Cub 3: Baby Cart to Hades
  4. V for Vendetta
  5. MCU 10 - Guardians of the Galaxy
  6. X-Men: First Class
  7. DCMU 2: Man of Steel
  8. MCU 6: Avengers - Assemble
  9. Blade
  10. DCMU 3: Suicide Squad
And The Worst: The Phantom
 

SM StarGazer

The voice of reason in a Sea of Salt
Well comics are over for the year right? My Top 10 list is nearly identical apart form American Spender falling off the bottom. I mean that is a FANTASTIC film, it used to be near the top, but it has been dropping each year as I just do not watch it very often. I see it on my comic film shelf and grab a different movie

Best Comic Book Movies + The Worst ( <= 2016 )


Rules
  • Has to be originally a comic (EG: can not pick Star Wars)
  • Has to be a theatrical release Film (not a TV show or TV Movie version, BluRay Cuts of theatre releases are ok)
  • Has to be live action
  1. Watchmen
  2. From Hell
  3. Lone Wolf and Cub 3: Baby Cart to Hades
  4. V for Vendetta
  5. MCU 10 - Guardians of the Galaxy
  6. X-Men: First Class
  7. DCMU 2: Man of Steel
  8. MCU 6: Avengers - Assemble
  9. Blade
  10. DCMU 3: Suicide Squad
And The Worst: The Phantom
Steel is the worst comic book movie. Period
 

HeroesNZ

Baconlord's Billionaire Sugar Daddy
Man of Steel was good.

The best parts of BvS were the parts where it foreshadowed following movies. The rest was ass. Jesse as Lex really killed the movie for me. Yes he's from Superman: Birthright but he still sucked.

Suicide Squad was good. Harley and Deadshot were great but Captain Boomerang was also an underrated performance for me. The Flash cameo was very well done and Ezra looks great. Grant Gustin would've stopped to talk, gotten bodied and then asked Cisco for help. Love you though Grant <3.
 

SM StarGazer

The voice of reason in a Sea of Salt
Man of Steel was good.

The best parts of BvS were the parts where it foreshadowed following movies. The rest was ass. Jesse as Lex really killed the movie for me. Yes he's from Superman: Birthright but he still sucked.

Suicide Squad was good. Harley and Deadshot were great but Captain Boomerang was also an underrated performance for me. The Flash cameo was very well done and Ezra looks great. Grant Gustin would've stopped to talk, gotten bodied and then asked Cisco for help. Love you though Grant <3.
You just killed me with that Flash stuff. Lol your so right.
 

Killphil

A prop on the stage of life.
It's a comic book movie, not a philosophical path to enlightenment. I'm not sure what some of you were looking for but for me it had a solid mix of comedy and action and at least it didn't have jarring scene jumps like a certain other dc movie.

All I can say is THANK GOD I didn't take the critics word for it and actually went to go see it myself. Considering BvS left a terrible taste in my mouth this one was a breath of fresh air.

I didn't like the super heavy political/dramatic aspects of BvS that went on far too long and with some weird pacing in my opinion. Basically the 'action' in that movie was not worth wading through over 2 hours of politics between the two heroes.
 
For my two cents, it seems to me the OP is just looking for some common ground with like-minded individuals that share his particular taste for cinema.

Personally, I thoroughly enjoyed the Man of Steel movie and I cite it as one of the best superhero movies ever made. For me, that is saying a lot, because I'm not really a Superman fan, and honestly not really a comic book (graphic novel) fan. I'm more of a film consumer than a graphic novel consumer. I thought the Man of Steel movie had everything that makes Superman enjoyable, even though his comic counterpart is basically a God (because he has every power he needs to have when the situation requires it). As one commenter mentioned, Superman is very hard to write for because he's essentially a demigod without equal, so he's hard to humanize and hard for humans to relate to.

As for Batman v Superman, the majority of the commenters are correct, this movie was average at best. The reason for the two protagonists to come to terms with one another was ludicrous. Just because their mothers share the same name... it's almost the middle-finger to any fan of these two characters, and comic books in general. As much as DC fans don't want to admit it, this film was cobbled together simply to compete with Marvel's already sizable lead in this genre with its Avengers series.

As for the Justice League movies in the works, it looks like DC is starting to head in the right direction with Wonder Woman and hopefully Aquaman. Using Suicide Squad as the most recent example, DC may be getting their act together. But these things are hard to judge because all these films will most likely have different producers, writers, and directors. Suicide Squad had the right combination because the writer is also the director. I'm not sure if Wonder Woman and Aquaman will have this same magic, but I hope they do.

TL;DR- Man of Steel, good; Batman v Superman, bad. Justice League hopefully good.
 
I don't think you really understand the point here and I don't think you're factoring in the context of it either.

They 1. Made a character who isn't black, black, and normally that isn't really that big of a deal, unless you 2. go out of your way to make this character as stereotypical as possible in the few scenes they have. Which is exactly what happened.

The thing about stereotypes is that some of them have a real origin, but it doesn't mean you should be building a damn character around them for the sake of comedy. There is also a difference between showing a black character watching BET in their leisure, and having a black character risk their life and be offered a sole personal freedom and choose something extremely stereotypical as their reward instead of something sensical. I mean, maybe even if they showed him in his cell watching a regular music video or a sitcom from BET it would have been less cringey. But you know what he was watching in his cell? Twerking asses. If they wanted him to say something funny there were a million other things he could have asked for.

We can't be this forgiving with this stereotype shit.

I don't know if it's better or worse that they showed they knew how to write black people in a non-ridiculous fashion with Deadshot and Waller. Then again those characters weren't supposed to be the comic relief, and that's usually where the stereotypical shit comes in.

I guess I can be happy that he was barely in the damn movie so I didn't have to see him or hear his bullshit through the entire stream of feces.



I'm not usually one to jump of the "PC" train, but damn I have my limits.
It wasn't stereotypical. im just not seeing it. So what if he watched a few hoes bust it wide open. WHO CARES!!!!!
 

SM StarGazer

The voice of reason in a Sea of Salt
Omfg it wasn't the NAME YOU STUPID....****%%%44#=(#(#:=:=;#.

BATMAN does not see SUPERMAN as a being, let alone a person. Only an Alien. When he spoke that name Batman realized that Superman isn't just some alien creature but a person, with values. He was blinded by his rage and was being the VERY THING HE SOUGHT TO DESTROY. EVIL. Yes it could have been delivered better but FUUUUCCKKKK stop having to be forcedfeed EVERYTHING. Look for the deeper meaning that the movie CLEARLY setup for the getgo. Shit man. Marvel got biches spoiled these days.


Watchmen would flop if it was released these days.
 

Marinjuana

Up rock incoming, ETA 5 minutes
I don't think Croc's race is brought up very often if at all in the comics, but this is Killer Croc in the non canon "Joker" graphic novel.

 

RM NoBrows

Supah hawt fiyah
They're getting a bad rep because of the people directing these movies. It's not the actors themselves. My only gripe with the actors of BVS was lex. I didn't like how lex was portrayed. I heard the ultimate edition clears up a lot of the plot holes. And DD being created was stupid. 5/10 theatre version IMO

Suicide squad was a solid movie. I'm not sold on Jared letos joker yet due to limited screen time. I didn't like how they portrayed enchantress either. 7/10 IMO.

I'm still hype AF for WoWo and justice league
 

Jynks

some heroes are born, some made, some wondrous
Doctor Strange is coming out in September I think
oh yeah.. cool. He is like Dr Fate right? I saw a trailer for that ages ago and forgot about it. Looks like it is coming out in November. Sweet. I'll add that to the watch list.,
 

Atriox

Here... I am a god!
Premium Supporter
oh yeah.. cool. He is like Dr Fate right? I saw a trailer for that ages ago and forgot about it. Looks like it is coming out in November. Sweet. I'll add that to the watch list.,
I dunno, don't know much about either of them but I guess they are pretty similar.

Movie looks good though, I like how different it looks compared to the other MCU movies.
 

GAV

Resolution through knowledge and resolve.
I'm not one to tell anyone how they should feel about movies, but I love the DC movies; I love the Marvel movies, including The Spiderman and Avengers movies. I even love the X-Men movies. Deadpool was great too.

The only one that I thought sucked was the Green Lantern movie.
 

aldazo

Waiting for Havik
  1. Watchmen
  2. From Hell
  3. Lone Wolf and Cub 3: Baby Cart to Hades
  4. V for Vendetta
  5. MCU 10 - Guardians of the Galaxy
  6. X-Men: First Class
  7. DCMU 2: Man of Steel
  8. MCU 6: Avengers - Assemble
  9. Blade
  10. DCMU 3: Suicide Squad
And The Worst: The Phantom
1. Dark Knight
2. Batman Begins
3. Hulk (with Eric Bana)
4. Hellboy
5. Constantine
6. Watchmen
7. X-Men first class
8. Winter soldier

That's all for now.
 
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Juggs

Lose without excuses
Lead Moderator
Movies being good or not is based on your opinion, but there's also some objectivity to it. The Dark Knight saga was DC universe films and they were great and received positive reciews. I don't think BvS or Suicide Squad are being unfairly criticized.

I can't stress enough that reviews are based on 90% opinions. Some of the worst or poorly reviewed movies have been some of my all time favorites. Such aa Grandmas Boy and The Chronicles of Riddick. See the movies for yourself, make your own decision.

That said, I did not enjoy Suicide Squad very much. Here's my take on it.

Suicide Squad for the most part seemed to try to hard, and not hard enough at the same time.

- The dialogue was weak, uncreative and simply just lame
- The characters for the most part were lackluster, excluding Harley Quinn, The Joker and Deadshot. Personally I wasn't a fan of Suicide Squad's Joker though.
- The "Squad" also lacked chemistry aside from those I mentioned.
- The story was also weak and boring, not to mention generic.
- The movie was incredibly predictable as well. You knew exactly what was going to happen at every turn.
- Even the most praised part, the action, was sub par.
- The pacing was off too. Poor pacing isn't too bad of a critique but it's just another thing that made me not enjoy this movie.


Not a detailed review but those are the main negatives to me. Keep in mind, I saw it with 7 other people and they all enjoyed it. This is just my opinion. I didn't go in with high expectations, I went in with low expectations and it was worse than I thought, unfortunately.

Like I said though, Harley Quinn was great and I hear she's getting a solo movie which is great. Deadshot was also good, I can see a solo film from him as well.
 

Somea2V

Thread Referee
if 1 person says a movie is good and 20 say its bad, its still bad. I like a lot of bad movies too, doesn't mean DC shouldn't stop making them.
No, that just means 21 people have opinions. The consensus may be the movie is "bad", but that is still a largely subjective appraisal.
 

HeroesNZ

Baconlord's Billionaire Sugar Daddy
One cringe-worthy thing about Suicide Squad though was how they kept trying to tell us that they were the bad guys. It's like they were trying to convince themselves as well as us. Bad guys don't go around constantly reiterating the fact that they're bad guys.