I Sense Your Dread- Scarecrow Match Up Discussion

[masherofbuttons]

I'm thinking scarecrow actually does pretty well against supes. Blowing up air laser with teleport is great

 

[UltraDavid]

Not sure if I'd personally agree on the Bane/Aquaman/Superman front. Those seem more like 6-4's against Scarecrow.

Yeah they might be, we'll see how things develop.

Re Bane: I always play a zoner & a grappler in any fighting game I pick up, so I'm used to both mindsets. In Inj2 I'm playing Bane (grappler), Fate (zoner), and Scarecrow (mix), so I know Bane's options pretty well. I feel Scarecrow vs Bane is a pretty typical ranged control vs grappler matchup. Scarecrow's long limbs, great antiairs, and ability to start safe pressure from 1/2 screen allow him to keep Bane out, but if Bane gets in he's probably gonna take 50-100% of your lifebar off. And while Scarecrow has no good wakeups, that doesn't matter as much against Bane who kinda doesn't care about wakeups while he has venom going, so Scarecrow is in more or less the same boat as most characters when Bane is up close. If you're worried about Bane getting in via venomed BF1, you're probably being too buttonsy. You can neutral jump it while pressing 3 such that your j3 will hit him but he won't hit you, and then you can punish with F2 or F1 or even F3 if you're fast enough. Of course you can also just raw MB B3. A good Bane will be more patient than that though, so expect to play that footsies midrange game. If he gets on lv2 or lv3 debuff, even a normal B12 hit confirm can end up with you doing 500+ damage and it's very difficult for him to stop you from moving forward with F133 etc, so take advantage of that time as best you can.

Aquaman: Aquaman's range lets him control most matchups, but Scarecrow negates that with even bigger range. From full screen you should be fine, just accept that you have to be patient about moving in. If you block a tentacle, you get a free dash before Aquaman can do anything. If you expect he's going to do a second immediate tentacle, you can turn that dash into MB roll and if timed right you'll go through the tentacle and get a free punish with F1 even if you were full screen when you started the dash. You can also jump and float over a tentacle or trident with air DB3. Once you get to 2/3 or 1/2 screen you can start your normal ground control or set up pressure. As good as his buttons are, they can't keep up with yours. If you block a tentacle from half screen, punish it with F1. Of course he has good pressure now too with B123 being +2. His B123 into D1 is only a 4 frame gap, but that means you can MB B3 in between it with perfect timing at least. His overhead is slow enough that you should just block low and try to react to B2.

Superman: This one I'm less sure about, might be a slight loss for Scarecrow. Superman is a terror at round start with F23 but I tested it and Scarecrow's D1 beats F2 if timed perfectly. Barring that, you basically have to block. Scarecrow wins in footsies like usual, which negates a big part of Superman's strength. You have to respect laser zoning though. Like usual, don't rush in, take your time. Like with Aquaman tentacle, you get a free dash after blocking any laser, and again if you dash and expect him to do another laser, you can turn that dash into MB roll and either punish with F1 or make him block F1. Again, you can also float over projectiles with air DB3, even over air laser. If you expect an air laser, you can jump into instant j2 or MB 3 from about half screen. My bigger concern with Superman is that lasers end up doing so much chip, and if he has trait going the chip or damage is even greater, and you can't MB 3 through them. He also still has pretty crazy damage and safe pressure, so he's strong up close. And his wakeup rising grab is only -11 on block and can land behind you if done point blank, so it's hard to get max damage punishes on it.

Let me know if you disagree or have better ideas on anything!

Edit:

I'm thinking scarecrow actually does pretty well against supes. Blowing up air laser with teleport is great

Haha that's true, but it's a huge risk! Unless you're doing it on reaction, which I don't think I can do. If you guess wrong and teleport when he's not busy, he can easily react with F2 into half your life. I suppose you should teleport every now and then so he doesn't feel safe, but eh I just don't feel that it's a great long term idea. Again, unless you can react! If so let me know cause that would be awesome lol.

This looks very accurate for an early MU chart, although I think batman could possibly be 7-3.

I also think he might beat Joker

Do you record any of your sets at all?
(it's also great to see you in these forums)

Yeah Batman might be a blowup, I can see it ending up like that. As for Joker, I'm not sure, I've only played a couple strong ones and only in random ranked matches, so I haven't been able to explore the matchup very well. But I feel Joker might be slept on in this game.

As for recording, I haven't been but yeah I'll start! I'm intending to get back to a regular stream schedule soon. If you're interested I stream on twitch.tv/ultradavid and twitch.tv/ultrachentv and upload to youtube.com/ultrachentv.

 

[Chongo]

Bit of a shameless promotion here but I ran a really long set vs @Wetdoba bane and I feel like it's probably 5-5. There isn't much I can say that UltraDavid didn't really say except that jumpback 2 is one of your best friends in this MU. Here's the set if anyone's interested.

 

[UltraDavid]

Bit of a shameless promotion here but I ran a really long set vs @Wetdoba bane and I feel like it's probably 5-5. There isn't much I can say that UltraDavid didn't really say except that jumpback 2 is one of your best friends in this MU. Here's the set if anyone's interested.

Awesome, thanks! I'll watch it later, but mind if I reupload it with some commentary on my own channel? Of course I'll link to your channel and the original vid and give any credit/links you'd like!

 

[Chongo]

Awesome, thanks! I'll watch it later, but mind if I reupload it with some commentary on my own channel? Of course I'll link to your channel and the original vid and give any credit/links you'd like!

I'd be honored to have UltraDavid tell the world how free I am, of course.

 

[RM Truth]

Superman: This one I'm less sure about, might be a slight loss for Scarecrow. Superman is a terror at round start with F23 but I tested it and Scarecrow's D1 beats F2 if timed perfectly. Barring that, you basically have to block. Scarecrow wins in footsies like usual, which negates a big part of Superman's strength. You have to respect laser zoning though. Like usual, don't rush in, take your time. Like with Aquaman tentacle, you get a free dash after blocking any laser, and again if you dash and expect him to do another laser, you can turn that dash into MB roll and either punish with F1 or make him block F1. Again, you can also float over projectiles with air DB3, even over air laser. If you expect an air laser, you can jump into instant j2 or MB 3 from about half screen. My bigger concern with Superman is that lasers end up doing so much chip, and if he has trait going the chip or damage is even greater, and you can't MB 3 through them. He also still has pretty crazy damage and safe pressure, so he's strong up close. And his wakeup rising grab is only -11 on block and can land behind you if done point blank, so it's hard to get max damage punishes on it.

To add to this, once you get into his j2 range, which is quite large, any laser Superman throws is risky, because you can hit confirm the j2 into F13 xx Death Spin. Scarecrow also has an answer to F23 as you can back dash after F23 xx Breath, and if they attempt another F23, the string will whiff and you can whiff punish with D1 or maybe even B1 or B2. At that point the Superman can probably blow it up by forward dashing or jumping in and then punishing, but then you can start blowing that up by counterpoking, so the post F23 guessing game isn't really all that bad.

 

[Ragnarök Tyr]

Interestingly enough if you block F23 Breath crouching and back dash, The 3 in F23 will catch you as you end the dash. So the above seems to only work if you block it standing.

 

[RM Truth]

Interestingly enough if you block F23 Breath crouching and back dash, The 3 in F23 will catch you as you end the dash. So the above seems to only work if you block it standing.

Just tested it and yes, for some reason, if you crouch block the breath, the F23 can still catch you after the back dash. Maybe pushback is shorter on crouch block? Looks like D1 xx Death Spin and B2 xx Death Spin will punish the whiffed string. B1 doesn't reach them.

 

[RM Truth]

You also have to make sure you stand before you block the 3 part or else you will still get caught after the backdash.

 

[Chongo]

Here's a few of my very early numbers, in no way are these certain lol

(Crow first)
Bane: 5-5
Blue Beetle: 4-6
Cheetah: 5-5
Green Arrow: 4-6
Harley Quinn: 4-6
Dr. Fate: 4-6
Cyborg: 5-5 (Will need to play this a lot more, it could also be 4-6)
Swamp Thing: 6-4

I haven't played the rest of the cast enough to warrant a MU number so there's no point in posting it.

 

[UltraDavid]

Update after a few more days and now with the knowledge that he'll have a real wakeup attack (changes in bold):

--Aquaman: 4-6 5-5
--Atrocitus: 4-6
--Bane: 5-5
--Batman: 4-6
--Black Adam: 5-5
--Black Canary: 7-3 6-4
--Blue Beetle: 5-5
--Brainiac: 5-5 6-4
--Captain Cold: ? (not enough experience vs good players)
--Catwoman: ?
--Cheetah: 6-4 ?
--Cyborg: ?
--Darkseid: 5-5
--Deadshot: 3-7
--Doctor Fate: 5-5
--Firestorm: 6-4 5-5
--Flash: 6-4 5-5
--Gorilla Grodd: 6-4
--Green Arrow: 6-4
--Green Lantern: 5-5
--Harley Quinn: 4-6
--Joker: 6-4 5-5
--Poison Ivy: ?
--Robin: 6-4
--Supergirl: 5-5
--Superman: 5-5
--Swamp Thing: 6-4
--Wonder Woman: 6-4

 

[TheJaquio]

Update after a few more days and now with the knowledge that he'll have a real wakeup attack (changes in bold):

--Aquaman: 4-6 5-5
--Atrocitus: 4-6
--Bane: 5-5
--Batman: 4-6
--Black Adam: 5-5
--Black Canary: 7-3 6-4
--Blue Beetle: 5-5
--Brainiac: 5-5 6-4
--Captain Cold: ? (not enough experience vs good players)
--Catwoman: ?
--Cheetah: 6-4 ?
--Cyborg: ?
--Darkseid: 5-5
--Deadshot: 3-7
--Doctor Fate: 5-5
--Firestorm: 6-4 5-5
--Flash: 6-4 5-5
--Gorilla Grodd: 6-4
--Green Arrow: 6-4
--Green Lantern: 5-5
--Harley Quinn: 4-6
--Joker: 6-4 5-5
--Poison Ivy: ?
--Robin: 6-4
--Supergirl: 5-5
--Superman: 5-5
--Swamp Thing: 6-4
--Wonder Woman: 6-4

Question: what makes Black Canary a 7-3?

 

[haketh]

Question: what makes Black Canary a 7-3?

She can't get in that well, Crane's normals shut her down pretty hard hard plus hey now we have a WU for when she does get in & scores a knockdown that she has to worry about.

@UltraDavid I wanna try to get in another set with Rynge, I feel like the Scarecrow vs Supes MU is pretty even. Supes has damage & can fight us at range but Scarecrow fights Supes zoning well because J2 exist.

 

[dribirut]

Just played arguably the best deadshot in the world and the mu feels 100 times better. Still loses but at least he doesn't bend me over on knockdown anymore which is huggggee

 

[M.D.]

Any more? On what change? Patch notes just gave us our wakeup back but that wasn't the issue vs deadshot anyway.

 

[Tweedy]

Superman does not beat Scarecrow especially now that he has a wake up.

I'm willing to throw hands over this issue.

 

[Matthew Phelps]

Wanna beat batman with scarecrow? control the air. Batman's J2 might be his best tool. Don't let him start that crap. J3 the piss out of him. And once he blocks J3 just follow up with Immediate command throw.

 

[Chongo]

Update after a few more days and now with the knowledge that he'll have a real wakeup attack (changes in bold):

--Aquaman: 4-6 5-5
--Atrocitus: 4-6
--Bane: 5-5
--Batman: 4-6
--Black Adam: 5-5
--Black Canary: 7-3 6-4
--Blue Beetle: 5-5
--Brainiac: 5-5 6-4
--Captain Cold: ? (not enough experience vs good players)
--Catwoman: ?
--Cheetah: 6-4 ?
--Cyborg: ?
--Darkseid: 5-5
--Deadshot: 3-7
--Doctor Fate: 5-5
--Firestorm: 6-4 5-5
--Flash: 6-4 5-5
--Gorilla Grodd: 6-4
--Green Arrow: 6-4
--Green Lantern: 5-5
--Harley Quinn: 4-6
--Joker: 6-4 5-5
--Poison Ivy: ?
--Robin: 6-4
--Supergirl: 5-5
--Superman: 5-5
--Swamp Thing: 6-4
--Wonder Woman: 6-4

I'd have to disagree with the BB and Green Arrow Numbers. I don't see how the MU isn't in Beetle's favor at all, and I would probably say he loses to Arrow too.

 

[masherofbuttons]

--Harley Quinn: 4-6

I haven't played many harley's but harley forums have been saying that Scarecrow beats Harley. Could you elaborate?

 

[dribirut]

Superman does not beat Scarecrow especially now that he has a wake up.

I'm willing to throw hands over this issue.

Who beat you in a set?

 

[dribirut]

Idk if Harley beats scarecrow but duckie certainly made it feel that way. He's a very good player though so idk..

The toughest time I've had against any good player. I suggest you guys play him before making any judgement on the mu

 

[SneakyTortoise]

Update after a few more days and now with the knowledge that he'll have a real wakeup attack (changes in bold):

--Aquaman: 4-6 5-5
--Atrocitus: 4-6
--Bane: 5-5
--Batman: 4-6
--Black Adam: 5-5
--Black Canary: 7-3 6-4
--Blue Beetle: 5-5
--Brainiac: 5-5 6-4
--Captain Cold: ? (not enough experience vs good players)
--Catwoman: ?
--Cheetah: 6-4 ?
--Cyborg: ?
--Darkseid: 5-5
--Deadshot: 3-7
--Doctor Fate: 5-5
--Firestorm: 6-4 5-5
--Flash: 6-4 5-5
--Gorilla Grodd: 6-4
--Green Arrow: 6-4
--Green Lantern: 5-5
--Harley Quinn: 4-6
--Joker: 6-4 5-5
--Poison Ivy: ?
--Robin: 6-4
--Supergirl: 5-5
--Superman: 5-5
--Swamp Thing: 6-4
--Wonder Woman: 6-4

I'm curious, what's changed your mind to now think that Brainiac went from a winning matchup to even?

 

[dribirut]

The atrocitous mu is going to be much better with a wakeup now

 

[dribirut]

Robin feels like AIDS.. You literally just have to sit there and take his stupid ass bird rang into pressure.. Mark my words, this character is going to be a problem

 

[foxof42]

Robin feels like AIDS.. You literally just have to sit there and take his stupid ass bird rang into pressure.. Mark my words, this character is going to be a problem

I'm late to the game here, does fearnado not eat it?