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I Sense Your Dread- Scarecrow Match Up Discussion

That Legion

PSN: "XO_Mellow"
The Batman matchup is still awful. Not much has changed. I think it could still be a 3-7. He still does whatever he wants without worry.

Because he has trait bats available less often, I've found that more Batmans will simply choose to zone you most of the match. Them building less meter doesn't seem to be too much of an issue in this matchup.

Teleporting as he throws the batarang also doesn't seem to work. Because you reverse their inputs, they will input another batarang as you teleport, but will get a back 2 to come out instead, punishing your teleport. An inadvertent option select.

Maybe one of you guys will find some form of hope in this matchup and help me out. Until then, it's back to Aquaman
It's still definitely a bad matchup, but being patient is now much more viable due to his meter gain nerf. Eventually, Bat will back himself into a corner. Obviously, that isn't an option all the time. But the teleport can now at least catch Bat on block if you time it just before he throws the batarang. From there you can land a D1 into pressure or command grab (or just raw command grab).
 

GJX7

Your Mediocrity Is Killing Me
I think the Deadshot MU is very winnable now, I think it's still in Deadshot's favour because of his okay zoning with Low Rifle and trick shot; his J2 checks with trick shot and his 50/50's make him scary up close. But because of the huge nerfs to his zoning I would say that it is a very winnable 4 - 6 rather than the difficult 3 - 7 that it was
 

GJX7

Your Mediocrity Is Killing Me
Someone help me with Green Arrow?

I feel like if I'm patient I just eat hella chip and if I'm inpatient then I'm staying full screen, and his wake up game is so unpredictable. It's just like the ultimate horrible mu
 
Someone help me with Green Arrow?

I feel like if I'm patient I just eat hella chip and if I'm inpatient then I'm staying full screen, and his wake up game is so unpredictable. It's just like the ultimate horrible mu
Use a different character yo haha
 

foxof42

Thanksgiving corner game, going ham and stuffing
My game plan is something like

1. Walk to the corner
2. Bait an option in neutral
3. MB B3/F3
4. Stuff the wakeup
5. Repeat

Try to MB B3 his slide if he likes to throw that out while getting chased. MB F3 if he's getting too comfortable sitting on an arrow mixup, especially ice arrow, but don't go crazy with them just because you see the bow and he's in range.

On his wakeup standing 3 stuffs his slide. The window on his hurricane bow makes stuffing that one a lot more difficult. If you think he's going for it, just let him and D1-DB2 the gap. DON'T JUMP. You either will let him out of the corner free or eat a combo on a read. There's no reason whatsoever to jump on his wakeup. Once you have him conditioned to guess with standing 3 you have much more wiggle room to pressure. Thanks to the standing 3 buff, if he delays wakeup, you still have enough recovery to D1 after.

A good time to teleport is when he is jumping with an arrow and you have the read on when it will release OR when he's going for a reload. Granted, you're still minus. It's best to hold a D1 hurricane bow and punish the gap on MB. If they like to go for grabs, it frees you up for other options like a crossup.

Basically the whole game will be making reads that are usually in Arrow's favor. The game will be won or lost in the corner so lab your options once you knock him down. If you're being too passive after knocking him down, ggs, because you aren't chasing him down raw and you aren't winning in neutral. Corner pressure or bust.
 

GJX7

Your Mediocrity Is Killing Me
My game plan is something like

1. Walk to the corner
2. Bait an option in neutral
3. MB B3/F3
4. Stuff the wakeup
5. Repeat

Try to MB B3 his slide if he likes to throw that out while getting chased. MB F3 if he's getting too comfortable sitting on an arrow mixup, especially ice arrow, but don't go crazy with them just because you see the bow and he's in range.

On his wakeup standing 3 stuffs his slide. The window on his hurricane bow makes stuffing that one a lot more difficult. If you think he's going for it, just let him and D1-DB2 the gap. DON'T JUMP. You either will let him out of the corner free or eat a combo on a read. There's no reason whatsoever to jump on his wakeup. Once you have him conditioned to guess with standing 3 you have much more wiggle room to pressure. Thanks to the standing 3 buff, if he delays wakeup, you still have enough recovery to D1 after.

A good time to teleport is when he is jumping with an arrow and you have the read on when it will release OR when he's going for a reload. Granted, you're still minus. It's best to hold a D1 hurricane bow and punish the gap on MB. If they like to go for grabs, it frees you up for other options like a crossup.

Basically the whole game will be making reads that are usually in Arrow's favor. The game will be won or lost in the corner so lab your options once you knock him down. If you're being too passive after knocking him down, ggs, because you aren't chasing him down raw and you aren't winning in neutral. Corner pressure or bust.
Thanks a lot! Really good advice, I'm about to hit the lab using that S3
 

GJX7

Your Mediocrity Is Killing Me
Is Supergirl a 3 - 7 or a 4 - 6? Do I need a counter pick to beat her or is it winnable with Crow? I generally only counter pick the 3 - 7 mu's
 

foxof42

Thanksgiving corner game, going ham and stuffing
Is Supergirl a 3 - 7 or a 4 - 6? Do I need a counter pick to beat her or is it winnable with Crow? I generally only counter pick the 3 - 7 mu's
Are you familiar with Supergirl's gaps? I'd lab blowing up B12-breath, it's a game changer. Once you show that they can't use that, it changes the matchup significantly. Also lab your options against her dashing in. Most Supergirl players won't respect your options until you show you can enforce them.

Edit: I'm not sure who you would use to counterpick her anyways. She's legitimately a jack of all trades with no obvious weaknesses.
 

GJX7

Your Mediocrity Is Killing Me
Are you familiar with Supergirl's gaps? I'd lab blowing up B12-breath, it's a game changer. Once you show that they can't use that, it changes the matchup significantly. Also lab your options against her dashing in. Most Supergirl players won't respect your options until you show you can enforce them.
My counter pick would be Arrow or the mirror, but I'll just learn the mu with Crow any advice on specific options would help a lot :)
 

foxof42

Thanksgiving corner game, going ham and stuffing
My counter pick would be Arrow or the mirror, but I'll just learn the mu with Crow any advice on specific options would help a lot :)
Kind of like the Superman MU, 11 can stuff some options. It stuffs B12 as a match opener and if she fully holds D1-breath MB at point blank, it'll stuff it there too.

If you have a read on a crossup, dash forward. This applies in the corner and in neutral. (Generic I know, but still.) Your D2 isn't going to be an antiair so much as a corner pressure tool in this MU.

If she is sitting on full trait, you can make a read on a teleport and have plenty of time to whiff punish the laser walk with a B3. That's about the only time I would use the teleport.

Because she doesn't build much meter in neutral, you're going to be free to make reads off of MB fear wave a lot more often without getting pushblocked. Her D1 will low profile your standing 2, so either use D1 or go for a J3.

Her forward dash has ridiculous range so be ready for it and press the right button depending on the range she lands in. If point blank, D1. If in sweep range, D2. If they like to dash in and then walk back to whiff punish your options, D3.

This is just general Crow stuff really, but especially in this MU you don't want to be whiffing F1 into F13-fear wave. She has very easy options for full combo punishing trying to headbutt in. Get into F2 range and stay there long enough to make them uncomfortable, then capitalize.

In corner, D2 stuffs her wakeups and is also a free start to pressure (same as D1, tic throw or fear wave). If she delays wakeup, however, it's officially her turn. Don't press buttons. You can also use standing 3 for the same effect. The difference is if you use it right after your HKD from schizophrenia and they delay wakeup, you recover fast enough to D1 before they can. This is totally new after the patch, he didn't always have this.

Last of all be patient, but also don't give up your turn. Get in some dashes in neutral if they're playing conservative with their lasers. Make reads on their staggers, especially B2 because most won't commit and still instead B2-D1. Make both staggering and committing a lose-lose situation for them. Between that and exposing her gaps, you should be able to walk her to the corner, put fear of pressing too many buttons in her, and Oki her with mix without much fear of pushblock.
 

GJX7

Your Mediocrity Is Killing Me
Kind of like the Superman MU, 11 can stuff some options. It stuffs B12 as a match opener and if she fully holds D1-breath MB at point blank, it'll stuff it there too.

If you have a read on a crossup, dash forward. This applies in the corner and in neutral. (Generic I know, but still.) Your D2 isn't going to be an antiair so much as a corner pressure tool in this MU.

If she is sitting on full trait, you can make a read on a teleport and have plenty of time to whiff punish the laser walk with a B3. That's about the only time I would use the teleport.

Because she doesn't build much meter in neutral, you're going to be free to make reads off of MB fear wave a lot more often without getting pushblocked. Her D1 will low profile your standing 2, so either use D1 or go for a J3.
Thank you for the great advice, I've done a bit of labing and worked out all of the breath gaps to everything:

Supergirl Breath Gaps
(?? xx DF2)

1 -> 1-3f
11 -> 1-3f
112 -> 1-3f
B1 -> 1-3f
B12 -> 7-8f
D1 -> 8-9f
2 -> 5f
21 -> 1-3f
B2 -> 1-3f
F2 (1st hit) -> 4f
F2 (2nd hit) -> 5-6f
D2 -> 24f
3 -> 0f (True block string)
 

foxof42

Thanksgiving corner game, going ham and stuffing
Thank you for the great advice, I've done a bit of labing and worked out all of the breath gaps to everything:

Supergirl Breath Gaps
(?? xx DF2)

1 -> 1-3f
11 -> 1-3f
112 -> 1-3f
B1 -> 1-3f
B12 -> 7-8f
D1 -> 8-9f
2 -> 5f
21 -> 1-3f
B2 -> 1-3f
F2 (1st hit) -> 4f
F2 (2nd hit) -> 5-6f
D2 -> 24f
3 -> 0f (True block string)
Dude! Very nice work!
 

GJX7

Your Mediocrity Is Killing Me
I always lose to every decent Atrocitus, I struggle with him just throwing out F2 (especially when he has the Dex-star shield) and I don't know how to deal with the re-stand straight into F23 mix. I don't really want to change character or counter pick, would love any advice I just lost to Atrocitus on an online tournament so I'm a bit salty, cheers!
 

foxof42

Thanksgiving corner game, going ham and stuffing
I always lose to every decent Atrocitus, I struggle with him just throwing out F2 (especially when he has the Dex-star shield) and I don't know how to deal with the re-stand straight into F23 mix. I don't really want to change character or counter pick, would love any advice I just lost to Atrocitus on an online tournament so I'm a bit salty, cheers!
Atrocitus will beat Crow significantly in neutral but gets destroyed in the corner. Feel out the way your opponent is using him in neutral. Most good Atrocitus players won't come in without trait, so they'll mostly be walking back baiting a jump in or waiting to punish a whiffed F1. It's important to stay on him just outside his B23 range. If you can force him to try to come in with F2, you have the means to blow him up for it and push him towards the corner. The corner is the ultimate goal that will turn matches strongly in your favor. If you have to choose between damage and the corner, choose the corner every time.

Once in the corner, you're free to D1-mix to your heart's content. Just be cognizant enough to confirm whether or not they've given you free damage by waking up. If you confirm a wakeup, you can D2 or D1 into a follow up but be sure to end it with gas blast and dash in so you can chase them back to the corner and start again. If you didn't confirm, you'll usually eat the wakeup, so pay attention.

Defensively, you have more options than most of the cast for dealing with blood shield. Gas blast goes right through it, so if they're chasing you down aggressively with shield, instant air gas blast shuts them down. D3 is also a fantastic tool if they're walking back slightly to check you with trait before going in. Jumping backwards can cause the blood ball (trait projectile) to whiff, but is generally an invitation to get anti-aired with puddle. You can extend your time in the air with gas blast, but don't get too predictable or they'll wait to see it before using puddle. When they do get in on you, pick a good time to pushblock. It's sometimes worth holding some initial pressure so that even more of their trait can be depleted.

As a final note, it's usually best not to get too jump happy. J2 is great for whiff punishing puddle, but most aren't going to be throwing it out at random. If they're vomiting a lot or waiting on an antiair, you'll just get blown up for it. Always be ready with a F2. It's your best tool for contesting forward movement after vomit, whiff punishing B23, and stuffing F2. Don't forget to MB B3 as a punish for puddle while they're in trait. Some like to puddle just past sweep distance while in trait, so if you see this, have that MB B3 ready because it has the advantage of a. actually reaching and b. ignoring shield entirely.

That's all I got. Good luck!
 

GJX7

Your Mediocrity Is Killing Me
What's the thoughts about Red Hood? I've been kinda grinding this MU and I believe it could be close to a 5 - 5 if not slightly in Red Hood's favour, Crow has a lot of tricks he can use in this MU that I think people over look.

Mid-screen Scarecrow has to make some reads but if they work out they can pay off big time, if you read that RH will throw a mine the Crow can do F12 into 450 dmg, or can do the less riskier teleport into D1 to cover mine toss or ninja stars, or tele into MB B3 to punish a late button press. Also, I should mention J2 which can hit from half screen and on a read can lead to huge damage.

Scarecrow can chase down RH's wake up anywhere on screen using F12 or F2 or even teleport behind it and punish the recovery frames, and in the corner anything can blow it up as it only has a few invincibility frames.

All in all I think by making a few low risk, huge reward reads mid-screen and keeping constant meaty pressure in. The corner this MU could be close to even.
 

SaucyD0ge

Worst european batman
What's the thoughts about Red Hood? I've been kinda grinding this MU and I believe it could be close to a 5 - 5 if not slightly in Red Hood's favour, Crow has a lot of tricks he can use in this MU that I think people over look.

Mid-screen Scarecrow has to make some reads but if they work out they can pay off big time, if you read that RH will throw a mine the Crow can do F12 into 450 dmg, or can do the less riskier teleport into D1 to cover mine toss or ninja stars, or tele into MB B3 to punish a late button press. Also, I should mention J2 which can hit from half screen and on a read can lead to huge damage.

Scarecrow can chase down RH's wake up anywhere on screen using F12 or F2 or even teleport behind it and punish the recovery frames, and in the corner anything can blow it up as it only has a few invincibility frames.

All in all I think by making a few low risk, huge reward reads mid-screen and keeping constant meaty pressure in. The corner this MU could be close to even.
1.The strings you mentioned are f13(3) and f2(13).
2. I mostly agree with your opinion since post patch Scarecrow cannot be zoned out by bullet helling him due to our teleport buff.Without an actual read on the teleport, it’s still near impossible to get a d1 punish which isn’t even a forward/backward type input.
3.Most would agree that pre patch Red Hood bopped Sacrecrow pretty hard.
 

Knoterror

Premium
Premium Supporter
Not sure when it happened (maybe this patch?) but they fixed the bug where Scarecrow couldn’t build traumatize from absorbing Robin’s birdarangs. Noticed this last night.

It changes the meta a little bit. Easier to lame Robin out.
 
Just got boped by a Cheetah in Ranked. Had to no clue how to go about it seeing as how it was literally, like, the second time I've ever faced one (the first being not too long after the game came out). Any tips? I kept getting caught by her pounce shenanigans that were crossing me up. Was able to d2 her out of it once or twice, so I'm thinking that's what I've gotta do? I dunno man, it really caught me off guard hahaha
 
Instant Air fear blast to keep random pounces.

I treat her like Catwoman in that I 22 a lot in the neutral to keep her from mindlessly dashing in and out. Be mindful when she is within sweep range since her D3 can low profile a few buttons.

Otherwise you can try to slowly push her into the corner. Cheetah's wake up is full punishable so there's a lot of risk once you knock her down.