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That's basically my understanding.

I just wish I knew what this hypothetical great fighting game is that people who complain about MK11 keep seeming to compare MK11 to.

I mean, show me a fighting game, any fighting game, and you'll find some kind of balance issue, some kind of move that can be spammed for a win, bad character matchups, 50/50 situations, whatever people want to complain about. If you look hard enough to can find flaws in anything. NRS could do all the patches people want, and it will never be good enough.
You're completely right.

A cheap move here, a cheap move there is normal. That's Scorpion for you. But look at Sonya...I can live with the zoning, I can live with the mixups...but why the damage? All they would have to do is nudge it down a bit and she'd still be top tier, but a bit more fair. Just seems like it's a little out of place.
 

CrimsonShadow

Administrator and Community Engineer
Administrator
The balance in this game is laughable.. injustice 2 at launch was miles ahead in terms of balance
You’re kidding right? For example, Black Adam at launch was actually broken, doing 500 damage off whatever touch and locking people down on block with the orb cancel into whatever. We were literally seeing Black Adam vs. Black Adam in top 8s.

Then Vanilla AM was not far behind him and would take half life for you attempting to to move.

It’s not even close.
 

Marlow

Premium
Premium Supporter
You're completely right.

A cheap move here, a cheap move there is normal. That's Scorpion for you. But look at Sonya...I can live with the zoning, I can live with the mixups...but why the damage? All they would have to do is nudge it down a bit and she'd still be top tier, but a bit more fair. Just seems like it's a little out of place.

Yeah, there are certainly things that should be tweaked or adjusted. I'm not against balance patches. It just bothers me when people seem to complain about a perfectly good fighting game ad nauseam. At some point I think it's better to accept a game's flaws and just try to enjoy playing the game you have instead of worrying about the game you don't have.
 

Cashual

PSN: Cansuela
When I say you cant on reaction it means exactly what the english says. If you see certain moves come out you have to ALREADY be blocking to be able to block them. For a forum thats in english there seem to be like 5 people here capable of speaking it.
This game overall has some of the slowest moves in all of fighting games, what are you even talking about? You were “reacting” to all the 3, 4, 5f moves in Street Fighter, huh?

I asked you to clarify because your comment made no sense. All fighting games require reads/predictions about what moves or options your opponent might do at different ranges. The only reactable moves are usually slow overheads or grabs and that’s fine.

You gain matchup knowledge and you block accordingly to the opponent’s moveset.

Every argument you’ve presented about why this game requires no skill is completely wrong and just exposes you as a bad player who simply doesn’t care to learn.

I would love to know about your history as a “high level SFIV” career.
 
Yeah d2's are not really universal...which is a shame. I've imagined where like, d2's are a universal tool and not unequal. But alas.

Shao Khan seems to have a good one. While Cassie and Cetrion's are not so good. I don't think Kano's is either...I don't think his standing 1 is that great for anti-air either.

I think some of the issues people are having anti-airing have to just do with the online and its...so-so-ness. Like when they see the jump it's already too late sorta stuff.
I remember in Injustice 2 thinking anti-airing sucked and it can feel like that in this too.
Like, in another fighting game various jump in's would be anti-aired all the time, but in this those jumps can make it. Part of it is NRS style too, I suppose.

Earlier in the thread I saw folks talking about when you block a jump in and that attacker has advantage, and a 50/50 of throw or attack. Kano for instance, his j4 is -7 on block.

When blocking a jump in sometimes mashing D1 or even a D2 will beat what someone tries to do. Sometimes not. Sometimes beating what someone will do with involve a d4 or another low kick that low profiles well...so spacing off block can come into play a bit.
It's a touchy thing and I dunno how it all boils out with online quality.
I can confirm Cetrion d2 is ass. No problem for antiairing since her standing 1 and forward 1 are really good ones, but the uppercut is so bad, that sometimes it whiffs when you read a throw and neutral duck it at more than pointblank distance
 

dribirut

BLAK FELOW
Royal Contributor
You’re kidding right? For example, Black Adam at launch was actually broken, doing 500 damage off whatever touch and locking people down on block with the orb cancel into whatever. We were literally seeing Black Adam vs. Black Adam in top 8s.

Then Vanilla AM was not far behind him and would take half life for you attempting to to move.

It’s not even close.
Lol youree kidding me right.. Have you played the low tier in this game... give me a break. Characters like sonya are playing another game entirely. 50/50s that lead to 50% combos. Literally outzones most "zoners"... Easily accessible KBs..

Then you have characters like Kotal...

Yes injustice 2 was easily more balanced at launch.
 

dribirut

BLAK FELOW
Royal Contributor
Youre on crack if you think being "The most balanced vanilla NRS game," is saying much more than "The best smelling toilet."
I agree. Lets pretend it actually is the most balanced (which its not). What does that matter? Its still grossly unbalanced.

I think a lot of the outrage right now is that in past NRS games, they were much more willing to do early patches to correct these issues and 99% of the time, these early patches made the game much better overall and helped the overall game.

But in this game there is this a really strange sentiment from some posters that insist NRS can do nothing wrong and that the game is "balanced" so we just need to "wait it out" because were all too stupid to realize if something is good or not. Like come the fuck on. It doesnt take a brain surgeon to realize that some of the characters have much stronger tools than others.
 

Professor Oak

Are you a boy or girl?
I agree. Lets pretend it actually is the most balanced (which its not). What does that matter? Its still grossly unbalanced.

I think a lot of the outrage right now is that in past NRS games, they were much more willing to do early patches to correct these issues and 99% of the time, these early patches made the game much better overall and helped the overall game.

But in this game there is this a really strange sentiment from some posters that insist NRS can do nothing wrong and that the game is "balanced" so we just need to "wait it out" because were all too stupid to realize if something is good or not. Like come the fuck on. It doesnt take a brain surgeon to realize that some of the characters have much stronger tools than others.
Most of the posters defending the game are being carried by the top tier, trust me. Good players know better. Dont worry, this place just isnt what it once was.
 

dribirut

BLAK FELOW
Royal Contributor
It’s been more than two months and yes
Geras, Sonya, Cassie, scorpion, Erron, etc are still the best in the game.

Please name me one character that we thought was ass but is now considered top tier? You can’t
 

dribirut

BLAK FELOW
Royal Contributor
Most of the posters defending the game are being carried by the top tier, trust me. Good players know better. Dont worry, this place just isnt what it once was.
The funny thing is I play top tier and when I’m hitting people with 3 krushing blows from Geras in one round, I can see something is not right..

To make things clear though. I am not in favor of nerfing. I would much rather have the lower to mid tiers buffed. But that’s just my opinion. I think that makes the game more fun rather than nerfing and making the game even more bland
 

Professor Oak

Are you a boy or girl?
The funny thing is I play top tier and when I’m hitting people with 3 krushing blows from Geras in one round, I can see something is not right..

To make things clear though. I am not in favor of nerfing. I would much rather have the lower to mid tiers buffed. But that’s just my opinion. I think that makes the game more fun rather than nerfing and making the game even more bland
Im fine with either way, I just want to play who I want, not who I have to. I tried maining Sonya. I never felt like I was outplaying people except rare occasions. It was just "ope, you dumb non guessing bitch, hold this 45%"
 

Professor Oak

Are you a boy or girl?
Comparing MK11 characters to characters in other games, even themselves in past MKs, is stupid. The rules of the game are different. In MK 50/50s were more prevelant, but you had the meter system that you earned to either fully benefit from the mix, or use ARMOR as the defender to get them off you. Totally different games, bad comparison.You also had to earn meter from round 1, it didnt start at full. This is true of all other fgs I can think of. The more I think about it, the more I think they made the skill floor too high.. This game babies players.
 
This game overall has some of the slowest moves in all of fighting games, what are you even talking about? You were “reacting” to all the 3, 4, 5f moves in Street Fighter, huh?

I asked you to clarify because your comment made no sense. All fighting games require reads/predictions about what moves or options your opponent might do at different ranges. The only reactable moves are usually slow overheads or grabs and that’s fine.

You gain matchup knowledge and you block accordingly to the opponent’s moveset.

Every argument you’ve presented about why this game requires no skill is completely wrong and just exposes you as a bad player who simply doesn’t care to learn.

I would love to know about your history as a “high level SFIV” career.
Dude you can't even read a simple post for what its worth. Why would I go into further explanation?

2 things, either one will happen.

  1. You wont understand what I'm saying because you can't read.
  2. You'll understand my point and argue it anyways and counter argument by saying you're not good at the game.
Drink a gallon of piss and fuck off.

edit:

I never claimed I had an SF4 career. I just said it was the last street fighter I played. I went to a couple tournaments that had high level players, did well in some of them early on.

edit 2:

Its clear that everything is just gonna be met with the same typical loser response "oh youre not good you dont know anything" so why even ask me to further explain my points? Seriously what a collection of losers.
 

CrimsonShadow

Administrator and Community Engineer
Administrator
Lol youree kidding me right.. Have you played the low tier in this game... give me a break. Characters like sonya are playing another game entirely. 50/50s that lead to 50% combos. Literally outzones most "zoners"... Easily accessible KBs..

Then you have characters like Kotal...

Yes injustice 2 was easily more balanced at launch.
Sonya is nowhere near what Black Adam was at launch. Plus frames orb cancel for no meter plus the divecick, black magic, etc. and half life for a bar. If you blocked you ate a throw with the orbs out for stupid damage. You have to be kidding me. It was bananas.

Tell me when we’re seeing 5 Sonyas in Top 8. Early Inj2 was literally “Whose Black Adam is better than the other?”

There’s literally one Sonya that’s been able to crack a Top 8 at this point — how many BA’s did we see in the first Inj2 tournaments, with a BA mirrors in Winners/Losers/Grand Finals and whatnot? Ridiculous.
 
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Vslayer

Curses in moose
Moderator
Premium Supporter
Sonya is nowhere near what Black Adam was at launch. Plus frames orb cancel for no meter plus the divecick, black magic, etc. and half life for a bar. If you blocked you ate a throw with the orbs out for stupid damage. You have to be kidding me. It was bananas.

Tell me when we’re seeing 5 Sonyas in Top 8. Early Inj2 was literally “Whose Black Adam is better than the other?”

There’s literally one Sonya that’s been able to crack a Top 8 at this point — how many BA’s did we see in the first Inj2 tournaments, with a BA mirrors in Winners/Losers/Grand Finals and whatnot? Ridiculous.
I mean, Scar won Combo Breaker with Sonya XD
 

CrimsonShadow

Administrator and Community Engineer
Administrator
I mean, Scar won Combo Breaker with Sonya XD
Scar doing Sonya things :cool:

He’s really the only one though. BA was so broken and easy to play that it wasn’t unusual to see 4 of them in Top 8. If you didn’t main him you had a pocket and went BA when you lost. It was out of control.

The Combo Breaker 2017 Top 4 was:
  1. FOX|SonicFox (Deadshot, Black Adam)
  2. Nasr|Tekken_master (Atrocitus)
  3. YOMI|Slayer (Aquaman, Black Adam)
  4. Circa|Forever King (Batman, Black Adam)
And the CEO Top 4 was:
  1. Whiteboi (Scarecrow)
  2. Slayer (Aquaman, Superman, Black Adam)
  3. FOX|SonicFox (Black Adam, Darkseid, Joker)
  4. Circa|Forever King (Batman, Black Adam)
Imo there’s no comparison.

 
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Professor Oak

Are you a boy or girl?
Sonya is nowhere near what Black Adam was at launch. Plus frames orb cancel for no meter plus the divecick, black magic, etc. and half life for a bar. If you blocked you ate a throw with the orbs out for stupid damage. You have to be kidding me. It was bananas.

Tell me when we’re seeing 5 Sonyas in Top 8. Early Inj2 was literally “Whose Black Adam is better than the other?”

There’s literally one Sonya that’s been able to crack a Top 8 at this point — how many BA’s did we see in the first Inj2 tournaments, with a BA mirrors in Winners/Losers/Grand Finals and whatnot? Ridiculous.
I dont remember it being very long before they nerfed his damage, Im probably wrong though. Does that mean this game doesnt have issues though?
 

Matix218

Get over here!
Dude you can't even read a simple post for what its worth. Why would I go into further explanation?

2 things, either one will happen.

  1. You wont understand what I'm saying because you can't read.
  2. You'll understand my point and argue it anyways and counter argument by saying you're not good at the game.
Drink a gallon of piss and fuck off.

edit:

I never claimed I had an SF4 career. I just said it was the last street fighter I played. I went to a couple tournaments that had high level players, did well in some of them early on.

edit 2:

Its clear that everything is just gonna be met with the same typical loser response "oh youre not good you dont know anything" so why even ask me to further explain my points? Seriously what a collection of losers.
You must be fun at parties
 

CrimsonShadow

Administrator and Community Engineer
Administrator
I dont remember it being very long before they nerfed his damage, Im probably wrong though. Does that mean this game doesnt have issues though?
Yeah, Vanilla didn’t last very long. But since there’s nothing quite as broken in this game, they’re free to let it rock for a while longer.

Doesn’t mean the game’s perfect, it’s just not an emergency like the last few titles.
 
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