First Big Patch Wishlist.

[Chernyy Volk]

My only question is why do you want to nerf S1 anti air?

The problem with S1 anti airs and low profiling d1/d3 anti airs is that they basically shut down the jump approach aspect of neutral down entirely. Characters like Sonya can shoot a fireball, you jump on the read, and she can still anti air your jump kick with a d1. Jacqui's another good example, her S1 completely eliminates her need to actually position herself for the anti air (which is an aspect of anti airing literally every other FG has to consider) so she basically can't ever be standing at a bad spot on screen. Combine this with the full combo rewards they offer and it's too much. I think upper body invincible d2's would be a perfect solution to this.

 

[Chernyy Volk]

Regarding breakaways, scar just won combo breaker without using them, and saving meter for wakeup attacks

if Sonicfox had the knowledge we do now about Sonya's wakeup Scar would've gotten mopped. That was just ignorance of the game at the time. Jacqui can end in the clench elbow drop and short hop to beat the wakeup and still be able to check the Sonya on delayed wakeup. It was him capitalizing on Sonic's tendency to always want to be in your face, that doesn't mean breakaway wasn't the superior option. As a matter of fact Sonic could've absolutely shit on him for playing that way had he been more patient.

 

[Chernyy Volk]

Wtf that has nothing to do with what I said. Look man, most players can see some of those changes will ruin the characters core gameplay.
Its to the degree of taking away scorpions F34 and Teleport.

It doesn't matter what you think is poor gameplay design. Most of the cast are built around a few tools and have little chance of being successful without them.

There's a difference between "my character is built around one string" or "this one string is so good I've never even had to put thought into using something else". I gaurantee you for a lot of these characters it's the latter.

 

[LawAbidingCitizen]

The problem with S1 anti airs and low profiling d1/d3 anti airs is that they basically shut down the jump approach aspect of neutral down entirely. Characters like Sonya can shoot a fireball, you jump on the read, and she can still anti air your jump kick with a d1. Jacqui's another good example, her S1 completely eliminates her need to actually position herself for the anti air (which is an aspect of anti airing literally every other FG has to consider) so she basically can't ever be standing at a bad spot on screen. Combine this with the full combo rewards they offer and it's too much. I think upper body invincible d2's would be a perfect solution to this.

I disagree.
Yes you can react to jump INS but that doesn't make s1/D1 too strong. It just means you shouldn't jump when at disadvantage or 0 state.
I only jump in when I'm at advantage to do so. Certain special moves give frame advantage to jump in or cross over and if course after knockdown or restand.

I actually like how AAs are so strong in MK11.

No more YOLO JIK/JIP's
Neutral Jump is still as strong as ever and I'd argue JI3's are very strong considering the mind game they create. Instant Jump in Kick, Normal Jump in Kick and Delayed jump in kick have different punishes to beat them out and work to beat out different options.
Generally a JIK done at the highest spot while still being an overhead is about +3 ob while done at the lowest hight can be +20(depending on character) and changing the timing you kick changes the time the opponent can s1 anti.

I think they are fine while being strong in certain situations. Just like negative moves being useful in certain situations like wolf punishing doesn't make them useless but more so useless if you use them for the wrong application.

 

[LawAbidingCitizen]

4: Fix the hitbox/hurtbox issues to make jailing/pressure more reliable
6: One breakaway per round
7: Fatal blow is lost on hit, block AND whiff
8: Bring back the ability to use punish/kounter hit KB's in the middle of combos that were a punish/counter
10: Bring back the ability for "if opponent is stand/crouch blocking" KB's on specials to work out of strings.

I agree with these changes only.

Erron Black:

dd3 can no longer be canceled into out of strings in 52 Kard Pickup

21212 is flawless blockable on the final hit into an u3 punish

f4 MB is -15 on block

You can fuzzy 21212 no need to make it Uber punishable.

Liu Kang:

1: F4 is 11f startup from 9

2: 12 is 0 on block from +2

Those are uNjust

Sonya Blade:

1: b123 is a string that has to be fully dialed in. b1 is -10 on block. Make her commit to the mix.

2: 134 is flawless block u3-able on the last hit

3: Double the recovery on bf1. Deadshot this projectile.

4: Remove the low profiling on d3

5: b14 is -15 on block and only special cancelable on hit

Sonya is fine no need to make every mix punishable like you are suggesting. Her only lancer is already punishable.

 

[LawAbidingCitizen]

No, that's the slow ass long range high that has a giant gap in the last hit.

Kotal wouldn't Benefit From plusframes on B223. Huge gap that can be poked and combowd and has major wiffing issues.

What he needs is better range on D1, pushback fixed on crouch block, better hitbox on 1,2, B2, and F1 and CG needs better hitbox and to choose sides for a bar. Better recovery / Startup on Sunlight/Quake.

 

[BuffRaiden]

Can we talk about how dumb 9 frame mids are. Cassie, Jaqui, and Liu Kang all need to be stripped of this nonsense in the first patch. The last time they gave characters poke speed mids was Raiden in MKX and he was S++ tier at the time. Slow them down to 10 or 11.

Liu Kang's f4 is still the dumbest normal in the game.

 

[LawAbidingCitizen]

Can we talk about how dumb 9 frame mids are. Cassie, Jaqui, and Liu Kang all need to be stripped of this nonsense in the first patch. The last time they gave characters poke speed mids was Raiden in MKX and he was S++ tier at the time. Slow them down to 10 or 11.

Liu Kang's f4 is still the dumbest normal in the game.

Hardly dumb. This meta is far apart from X and can't really be compared. Moves where lightning fast and 50/50s where actually real true 50's being Oh and Low starters and in many cases Oh to Low and vice versa. Some characters had +20 on block cancels with true 50/50s that could be looped on block with HTB setups and resets from unblockables.

11 is so watered down compared to X its not even comparable. The overwhelming majority use staggers to make them guess number of hit or mid/throw as mix in MK11. Nothing like Erron from X with true 50's into tick throws or actual fast mids that tick and are plus 15 ob.

This game has a huge focus on neutral and harder ways to open up your opponent aside from a select few. If you out footsie them you win 9/10.

There are options to open up Liu Kang and blow up his F43U+3 mix. Its just a guess game and you can poke it but he can counter the poke/starter in the gap by doing options that are unsafe when read.
I think they made most characters very honest in 11. If we where to remove 9f mids or 50/50s then what every form of guess? Out of all the things that could be very strong I wouldn't be picking out number of hit/stagger mix.

 

[Wigy]

I'll address you point by point.

U2's: It's two bars for 5% damage that gets broken immediately and depending on who you are you may never open them back up again. There is no universe in which this is currently worth using.

D1's: This can be what d3's are for. Uniformity is good. Uniformity establishes a fundamental baseline for the game.

Johnny Cage: If his whiffing issues are fixed and he gets more practical KB requirements this needs to be less plus. I feel like you aren't thinking about the big picture here.

Sonya: So let me get this straight, you'd rather just make her weaker, instead of keeping her explosive nature while making her live or die by it? I want to maintain her identity as a high risk high damage mix character. My nerfs keep that intact. She's still doing 50% off unreactable mix in the corner, she still has an S-tier wave dash, she's still forcing you into the 50/50 after a d3 on hit, her throws are quite good positioning wise, her KB's are still very good because they're super accessible. This characters problem is she's the best at EVERYTHING right now. Her footsies are good, her zoning is the best in the game next to maybe Cetrion, her damage is high and practical, she has mix, she has good jump ins, something has to give here and she needs to be pidgeonholed into more of an archetype than "jack of all trades who has mix" which is currently what she is.

You know you can just standing jab or poke after his forceballs. He's plus 6 or less after a string and all the attacks you can hit with are about 14 frames.

You can just backdash out of all his options.

The character is a footsie neutral character that plays off one Mid that's ass and a 14 frame high

Do you play cage, on what planet do forceballs need nerfed.

Can you explain you point past just saying 'think big picture'

 

[santanabar]

Can we talk about how dumb 9 frame mids are. Cassie, Jaqui, and Liu Kang all need to be stripped of this nonsense in the first patch. The last time they gave characters poke speed mids was Raiden in MKX and he was S++ tier at the time. Slow them down to 10 or 11.

Liu Kang's f4 is still the dumbest normal in the game.

Only a person who mashes pokes in negative would complain about 9 frames mids

 

[BuffRaiden]

Only a person who mashes pokes in negative would complain about 9 frames mids

Try again. 9 frames mids are a crutch that renders the characters who have them superior to the point that they ought to never use their own pokes.

Liu already has a 9 frame mid that does not advance. The f4 should be 11 at the fastest when characters in the lower tiers have nothing close to tools like this.

The consensus is already a resounding “9 frame mids are too strong.”

But something tells me you’re a Liu player who’s time invested in this game amounts to memorizing f43u3.

 

[santanabar]

Try again. 9 frames mids are a crutch that renders the characters who have them superior to the point that they ought to never use their own pokes.

Liu already has a 9 frame mid that does not advance. The f4 should be 11 at the fastest when characters in the lower tiers have nothing close to tools like this.

The consensus is already a resounding “9 frame mids are too strong.”

But something tells me you’re a Liu player who’s time invested in this game amounts to memorizing f43u3.

The consensus? lol

If you need to poke in a game when you are + on block, is because your opponent is pushing buttons when it's not his turn (basically mashing d1). So it looks like you are one of them, because when you are negative, blocking a 9 frame mid and a 11 frame mid is exactly the same. So once again, if you have a problem with 9 frame mids is because they are beating your pokes. Just block and don't mash.

Jacqui and lk are meant to be good at close range so yes, they will always have better mids than the rest of the cast.

And no, I don't main liu kang. My main is frost, 16 frame mid, and i invested many hours memorizing her b22.

 

[Chernyy Volk]

I disagree.
Yes you can react to jump INS but that doesn't make s1/D1 too strong. It just means you shouldn't jump when at disadvantage or 0 state.
I only jump in when I'm at advantage to do so. Certain special moves give frame advantage to jump in or cross over and if course after knockdown or restand.

I actually like how AAs are so strong in MK11.

No more YOLO JIK/JIP's
Neutral Jump is still as strong as ever and I'd argue JI3's are very strong considering the mind game they create. Instant Jump in Kick, Normal Jump in Kick and Delayed jump in kick have different punishes to beat them out and work to beat out different options.
Generally a JIK done at the highest spot while still being an overhead is about +3 ob while done at the lowest hight can be +20(depending on character) and changing the timing you kick changes the time the opponent can s1 anti.

I think they are fine while being strong in certain situations. Just like negative moves being useful in certain situations like wolf punishing doesn't make them useless but more so useless if you use them for the wrong application.

You literally just ignored me describing a thing THAT HAPPENS IN MATCHES where you jump at Sonya when she's at disadvatnage and she still gets to anti air lol.

 

[Qwark28]

Don't know why you guys are entertaining this dude when he clearly knows nothing of fighting games. 5 pages full, with half of the replies being his own, trying to justify why this poorly thought out mess is fine, according to him.

 

[santanabar]

You literally just ignored me describing a thing THAT HAPPENS IN MATCHES where you jump at Sonya when she's at disadvatnage and she still gets to anti air lol.

Problem is sonya recovers too fast from projectiles, not the AA.

 

[Chernyy Volk]

Problem is sonya recovers too fast from projectiles, not the AA.

I mean that's true? Her projectile recovery wouldn't be such a big deal if she could be consistently jump in on for being read even though making the ring recovery worse is probably the thing to do.

 

[Chernyy Volk]

Try again. 9 frames mids are a crutch that renders the characters who have them superior to the point that they ought to never use their own pokes.

Liu already has a 9 frame mid that does not advance. The f4 should be 11 at the fastest when characters in the lower tiers have nothing close to tools like this.

The consensus is already a resounding “9 frame mids are too strong.”

But something tells me you’re a Liu player who’s time invested in this game amounts to memorizing f43u3.

I agree with you but for different reasons. The problem with f4 being 9f is it makes Liu basically impossible to shimmy or backdash even when he's up to - double digits. I think blocked mids, unless plus on block mids, should always allow you to use movement to reclaim neutral. You can't really do that against Liu, he forces you to play the f43 guessing game or get clipped.

 

[KutlessMyth]

6: One breakaway per round

if nothing else, please this

 

[KutlessMyth]

Okay you're still the only person here that finds sonya this much of a problem. Nobody should ever be dead shot nerfed, including Deadshot. They made the character literally useless. I pray they don't listen to people like you and only go with moderate nerfs.

The way they handled black adam in I2 is how you respectably nerf a character. She should absolutely be able to stagger her b1 string or special cancel it. Just change the zoning,.

i mean black adam was "nerfed respectably" but ended the game's lifespan as the best character in many pro and casual player's eyes. Also, might I ask who you main in MK11?

 

[ZeroSymbolic]

The only thing in the game that really bothers me is Scorpions Reborn Teleport. I don't want him nerfed into the ground or anything, but I just feel like this move has too many options and is the answer to too many questions.

 

[Invincible Salads]

This Thread makes me uncomfortable.....




a lot of your nerfs are bad, your overdoing it, especially with characters like geras, Removal of throw loops and lower damage on crushing blow's is about it, possibly normalizing the range of his d1 but thats it really

 

[ArcticTabasco]

I just want the ability to mute voice chat altogether. I don't know why people insist on speaking Russian to me when I can't understand a word of it, but it sure is annoying and distracting.

 

[ZeroSymbolic]

I want them to commit to the neutral heavy game we were promised. This means a nerf to a lot of top tiers like Scorpion, Erron, Geras, etc. They are in effect playing a different game than the rest of the cast because they basically by-pass neutral and have free ins. Yes, they can be dealt with but they suck to play against and they are very common picks. It doesn't matter if 20 characters are more or less balanced, when 5 of them are not, and those 5 are what get picked. Again, the top tiers can be dealt with but it's uphill, annoying, and most importantly it contradicts the game we were promised.

Aside from that, fix hitbox issues on D'Vorah, give Johnny KBs that he can actually use, and then fix up Kotal and Shao Kahn (not sure what they need, just know they need help.)

Game is close, very close to being damn near perfect, but if they are going to let a handful of characters just say no to neutral, or if they buff the whole cast to play like that I will be disappointed. I hate it when developers go backwards on what they tout a game to be about. MK11 is supposed to be neutral heavy let's have it!