First Big Patch Wishlist.

[Chernyy Volk]

Any insults or salt will just be ignored. I'm happy to discuss any of these ideas with people. Also, when you read this, you need to treat it LIKE PATCH NOTES, as in, think about the universal changes along with the nerfs/buffs. People I've shown this to see their character getting nerfed and flip the fuck out without realizing their character would actually be buffed overall.

Only a couple of characters here get seriously hurt, but they still gain big returns. I don't even know what you would do with Lao and D'vorah, so I'm happy to hear what Lao and D'vorah mains think their character needs. I also agree Johnny Cage needs better KB requirements but I'd rather hear what the Johnny mains would like to have.

Alright, here's what I'd like to see on every character and universally in the game.

The universal changes have these goals in mind

1: Remove variability
2: Higher reward for being FUNDAMENTALLY good at the game. You can use the system and nothing else to win. So mechanics got buffed etc.
3: Universalizing/Normalizing basic tools across the cast.
4: Emphasize player expression through resource management (KB's and supers mainly)

Universal:
1: Increase jumping startup frames
2: Increase u3 damage to 12%
3: Increase u2 damage to 15%
4: Fix the hitbox/hurtbox issues to make jailing/pressure more reliable
5: Nerf s1/d1-d3 AA's, make d2 upper body invincible u2 style
6: One breakaway per round
7: Fatal blow is lost on hit, block AND whiff
8: Bring back the ability to use punish/kounter hit KB's in the middle of combos that were a punish/counter
9: All d1's are 7f, +10 on hit and -6 on block
10: Bring back the ability for "if opponent is stand/crouch blocking" KB's on specials to work out of strings.


Baraka:

Baraka is fine as is. He's one of the few characters in this game that has strengths, weaknesses, AND a fully fleshed out gameplan with fully usable buttons. He's a good example of MK11's character potential.

Cassie Cage:

1: Make Kneecappin' (db1 in Digital Soldier) have 10 more recovery frames. The frame data doesn't even have recovery for this move so I'm ball parking it. This makes the move worth dodging, instead of it being preferable to block it. Right now she can machine gun this on whiff.

2: db4 MB in Yaas Queen is +20 on hit, making the b13 link easier and giving her more combo options overall. I'm pretty sure this would allow her to do j1/j2 links.

3: Make Flippin' Out (db3) launch higher, giving Cassie a small juggle if it connects.

Overall, Cassie is in a good place.

Cetrion:

I think Cetrion is fine as is except for teleport. Make it cost 2 defense bars.

D'vorah:

I don't even understand what's supposed to be bad about this character. But I'd increase the cancel advantage on 12 so it can link into puddle. This is a very dangerous character to buff tbh.

Erron Black:

dd3 can no longer be canceled into out of strings in 52 Kard Pickup

21212 is flawless blockable on the final hit into an u3 punish

f4 MB is -15 on block

Frost:

1: Fix her s1 and s2 hitbox. I feel like if anything she should have one of the longest s2's in the whole game.

2: Remove the Flawless Block gap from b22.

2: Decrease the scaling off the b2212 KB

4: Cryogenic Crown is a mid

Geras:

1: f212 is -7 on block and flawless blockable on the final hit

2: 111 is -14 on block

3: Sandtrap in infinite Warden only is -35 on block

4: d1 is normalized to 7f

5: Swap the KB requirements between the sandtraps

6: u2 is normalized into average u2 speed of 10-13 frames so he can't launch counterpokes anymore

7: Fix the gap in f212 so he doesn't have jank based 3-7 MU's

8: Decrease his hurtbox size while blocking so he isn't being forced to hold strings other characters don't have to (Johnny's 124 etc)

Jacqui Briggs:

1: f1 is 9 frames and a high from 11 frames and a mid

2: f3 is 13 frames from 9 frames

3: Jacqui is -7 after her throw reversal is teched

4: Jacqui is -8 if b34 is flawless blocked

Jade:

I actually think Jade is just fine

Jax:

Jax is fine.

Johnny Cage:

1: Fix all of his whiffing issues

2: bf2 EX is +1 down from +3 on block

Kabal:

1: Turn Nomad Spin (db2) into a MB launcher, give it more damage on regular so it can be a combo ender.

2: Make bf2 KB out of strings but make it -25 on block

This is all I feel Kabal should get tbh

Kano:

I feel like Kano's problems are entirely rooted in his variations to be honest.

1: Fix the whiffing issues on f12b2

2: Make variation one Manhandled+Snakebite

3: Make variation two Lumbar Check+Magnet Pull+Vegemite Buff

Kitana:

I don't know what Kitana needs. I feel like the universal changes I proposed would help her though.

Kollector:

1: 131 has 25 recovery down from 40, allowing Kollector to combo off this meterlessly.

2: 21+3 is special cancelable

3: 32 KB is changed to be a punish/kounter KB

4: b122 can come out on whiff and block

5: f321 is special cancelable like the frame data says

6: f3 is -10 on block, basically converting this into a high damage but punishable whiff punish button

Kotal Khan:

1: You can choose what direction to throw somebody off of db2

2: 212 has 5 less recovery frames and launches the opponent right in front of you, giving him a meterless combo option

3: b22 does 200 damage stand alone. I'm not kidding. I like the idea of this just being a soul destroying launcher for how slow it is.

4: b223 is +10 on block

5: Mace parry buff lasts 5 seconds

I like the idea of Kotal being just a big damage meat head and being rewarded for taking huge risk. I think this all helps that.

Kung Lao:

People say this character sucks? So like, I don't know what he needs cause I don't think he's that bad. I do think that his strings that have huge pushback on hit should have less, so that he can hat spin off of everything without HAVING to spend the bar. Seems kinda whack.

Liu Kang:

1: F4 is 11f startup from 9

2: 12 is 0 on block from +2

Noob Saibot:

1: 212 launches closer to Noob, allowing for more consistent combos to help out his zoning variation. This string is pretty irrelevant in the one we all use. This just makes the f2212 conversion easier.

2: bf2 MB KB is changed to work on an anti air.

3: b31+3 KB is changed to a punish/kounter KB

Raiden:

1: db4 MB in Raijin is a launcher again.

2: Air and grounded bf3 KB's are changed to work on punish/kounter

Scorpion:

1: Can't MB teleport on block

2: Close tele cancel costs offense bar instead of defense (I think people would agree this is an aggressive maneuver). Far tele cancel costs both defense bars.

3: b141 is special cancelable, but the full string will come out on block. Making it for whiff punishing only.

Shao Khan:

People downplay this character hella.

1: Give his buffs/taunts less recovery.

2: Shoulder can be MB'd on block

That's all he needs. I don't wanna hear it.

Skarlet:

Skarlet is fine.

Sonya Blade:

1: b123 is a string that has to be fully dialed in. b1 is -10 on block. Make her commit to the mix.

2: 134 is flawless block u3-able on the last hit

3: Double the recovery on bf1. Deadshot this projectile.

4: Remove the low profiling on d3

5: b14 is -15 on block and only special cancelable on hit

Sub Zero:

Sub is fine if all the universal changes I mentioned are implemented.

There we go.

 

[colby4898]

Liu Kang doesn’t need those nerfs. Hid you make f4 12f fine, but then the hit box in b1 needs to be adjusted so it actually hits crouch blocking opponents, as it’s meant to be a mid.

12 is high high anyway. I don’t see how making it 0 on block is necessary.

With fatalblows going on whiff or block. Do you mean just for the round or for the whole game. If it’s just the round I agree, if it’s game o don’t.

 

[Chernyy Volk]

Liu Kang doesn’t need those nerfs. Hid you make f4 12f fine, but then the hit box in b1 needs to be adjusted so it actually hits crouch blocking opponents, as it’s meant to be a mid.

12 is high high anyway. I don’t see how making it 0 on block is necessary.

With fatalblows going on whiff or block. Do you mean just for the round or for the whole game. If it’s just the round I agree, if it’s game o don’t.

I never thought about the fatal blows thing now that you mention it. But since the game is already kind of trying to emulate Tekken, yeah, go all the way. Once per round but it goes away when used at all.

As for Liu Kang, yeah b1's hitbox should be fixed but as for 12, no one is going to block 1 and neutral crouch 2 in the middle of a match except on the hardest of reads. And in the heat of a match neutral is basically plus. You're not reacting to just blocking 12 in time to win a counter poke situation unless you read it or the guy is mad predictable. Also I'm pretty sure some characters in this game cause of their hitboxes/crouch transition animations can't actually neutral duck in the middle of 12.

 

[colby4898]

I never thought about the fatal blows thing now that you mention it. But since the game is already kind of trying to emulate Tekken, yeah, go all the way. Once per round but it goes away when used at all.

As for Liu Kang, yeah b1's hitbox should be fixed but as for 12, no one is going to block 1 and neutral crouch 2 in the middle of a match except on the hardest of reads. And in the heat of a match neutral is basically plus. You're not reacting to just blocking 12 in time to win a counter poke situation unless you read it or the guy is mad predictable. Also I'm pretty sure some characters in this game cause of their hitboxes/crouch transition animations can't actually neutral duck in the middle of 12.

I don’t mind about his b1 because he has a reliable 9f mid. I think if 12 is 0, it will be kinda useless. I agree no one would crouch 2 after being hit by 1, at least not this early on, however 12 only use is that if the opponent does block it they’re plus. I think if it’s neutral, you may as well just stick with the mids and the mind game that comes from his f4.

The only change/ kinda buff I want for him is his b13 string. It has better range than f4, however at that range the second hit often whiffs, partly cos it’s shorter range and also cos it’s a high. I would make the second hit a mid and increase the range of the second hit just slightly so it doesn’t whiff when b1 connects. Other wise this move is useless as a footsie tool, and everyone blocks low in the corner anyway so it’s not great for opening people up.

 

[Chernyy Volk]

I don’t mind about his b1 because he has a reliable 9f mid. I think if 12 is 0, it will be kinda useless. I agree no one would crouch 2 after being hit by 1, at least not this early on, however 12 only use is that if the opponent does block it they’re plus. I think if it’s neutral, you may as well just stick with the mids and the mind game that comes from his f4.

The only change/ kinda buff I want for him is his b13 string. It has better range than f4, however at that range the second hit often whiffs, partly cos it’s shorter range and also cos it’s a high. I would make the second hit a mid and increase the range of the second hit just slightly so it doesn’t whiff when b1 connects. Other wise this move is useless as a footsie tool, and everyone blocks low in the corner anyway so it’s not great for opening people up.

I don't understand how 12 would be useless. If they are conditioned to block, it's your fastest option. If they try to interrupt they can get clipped by 123. I really think the string would still be good even with that change. Also keep in mind, this is a world where 12 also consistently jails off Kang's d1 on the whole cast. That's a really good and privileged high jail that a lot of characters wouldn't have. I can agree about b13 though.

 

[BuffRaiden]

Your changes would destroy Sonya. You touch her mix or her zoning. Not both. I don't even play the character. What tremendous waste of time that write up was.

 

[colby4898]

I don't understand how 12 would be useless. If they are conditioned to block, it's your fastest option. If they try to interrupt they can get clipped by 123. I really think the string would still be good even with that change. Also keep in mind, this is a world where 12 also consistently jails off Kang's d1 on the whole cast. That's a really good and privileged high jail that a lot of characters wouldn't have. I can agree about b13 though.

I feel like I’d rather just go b123 as it’s a mid and only one frame slower. It’s also a higher damaging un breakable combo starter. I just don’t think 12 being +3 is too strong.

 

[Chernyy Volk]

Your changes would destroy Sonya. You touch her mix or her zoning. Not both. I don't even play the character. What tremendous waste of time that write up was.

How would the changes destroy Sonya? Very hyperbolic statement.

 

[Chernyy Volk]

I feel like I’d rather just go b123 as it’s a mid and only one frame slower. It’s also a higher damaging un breakable combo starter. I just don’t think 12 being +3 is too strong.

What about a compromise of making 12 +1?

 

[BuffRaiden]

How would the changes destroy Sonya? Very hyperbolic statement.

No It's actually not at all hyperbolic. She already has very limited mids. Most of what she does can be poked. You are actually talking about bring her down to useless tier. Her zoning should be brought down but her rush down game should remain intact. Just stop making these lists, really. You were a good black manta player, but you've been getting bodied in this game because frankly, you haven't figured out how to play it. It's very obvious based on your scorpion play. Making b124 a hard commit dial string is the dumbest suggestion I've heard about this character. You started that nonsense, and no one has supported you. Scar and dizzy were the only one to perform well with her because of their fundamentals. I agree she's too strong, but not that strong. Jaqui has free cancels and you haven't even addressed those.

 

[colby4898]

What about a compromise of making 12 +1?

I have no influence on the patch so I don’t see any point compromising. I’d just leave as is.

 

[Trini_Bwoi]

I just want some QOL training mode updates:

• ability to set the AI to do normal attack reversals (ex. reversal D1)
• infinite Krushing Blows and Fatal Blows
• setting to disable AI doing mid-string reversals (if a string has even 1f gap the AI will go for a reversal right now)

 

[Chernyy Volk]

No It's actually not at all hyperbolic. She already has very limited mids. Most of what she does can be poked. You are actually talking about bring her down to useless tier. Her zoning should be brought down but her rush down game should remain intact. Just stop making these lists, really. You were a good black manta player, but you've been getting bodied in this game because frankly, you haven't figured out how to play it. It's very obvious based on your scorpion play. Making b124 a hard commit dial string is the dumbest suggestion I've heard about this character. You started that nonsense, and no one has supported you. Scar and dizzy were the only one to perform well with her because of their fundamentals. I agree she's too strong, but not that strong. Jaqui has free cancels and you haven't even addressed those.

I did address the Jacqui cancels. I think you're a covert Sonya main just arguing in bad faith.

She doesn't have good mids because d3 jails into the b1 mix. She doesn't NEED good mids with the ability to put you in a damaging 50/50 off a crouch poke that's not fuzzyable. Also, a lot of people on the twitter side of this discussion actually agree with making b123 a hard commit dialup string. B12 shouldn't be a stagger. It's a guess on top of a guess. If you try to punish b12 b123 will hit you.

Anyways, this is a bad faith argument with a covert Sonya main for sure. This is the last I'll engage with you because you either don't understand why your character is actually so good or you're afraid to endure changes to the game where you have to adapt. Change is good. Change is okay.

Also says you. You couldn't beat me in a set in this game and I'm actually one of the best Scorpion's in the scene currently. Typical TYMer.

 

[Qwark28]

Lol look at how many threads people make when patches take this long.

Here's what they should fix in this game, without being biased or writing shit that would absolutely break characters.



Fix all D1 hitbox/hurtbox issues.

Make all D1 between -5 and -7 on block.

Add 10 more recovery frames to all U3s.

Add 10 more - frames to all U2s.

FB are lost on hit, block, whiff, have only 1 hit of armour and do 25%.

Rolls cost 1 of each bar.

Character wise, remove sonya's onion rings KB, lower her dmg by 10%, make scorpion's MB teleport not a mixup on block and give minor buffs to the bottom 7 characters.

 

[Chernyy Volk]

Lol look at how many threads people make when patches take this long.

Here's what they should fix in this game, without being biased or writing shit that would absolutely break characters.



Fix all D1 hitbox/hurtbox issues.

Make all D1 between -5 and -7 on block.

Add 10 more recovery frames to all U3s.

Add 10 more - frames to all U2s.

FB are lost on hit, block, whiff, have only 1 hit of armour and do 25%.

Rolls cost 1 of each bar.

Character wise, remove sonya's onion rings KB, lower her dmg by 10%, make scorpion's MB teleport not a mixup on block and give minor buffs to the bottom 7 characters.

Why more recovery on u3's?

Why more - frmaes on U2's?

Why make them do 25%?

Why nerf rolls?

Why remove a KB? Why lower her damage? And Scorpion's teleport is not a mixup.

 

[Qwark28]

Why more recovery on u3's?

Why more - frmaes on U2's?

Why make them do 25%?

Why nerf rolls?

Why remove a KB? Why lower her damage? And Scorpion's teleport is not a mixup.

Are we playing the same game?

A lot of U3s have extremely fast recovery and you can sometimes fail to punish them even when you're expecting them.

Some U2s are only -10, namely kotal's, but there are more than are even -7 like Geras IIRC. If the opp was baiting a U3 whiff or didn't want to FB, those are virtually unpunishable, with some being quite literally unpunishable unless you FB them in a game where you can wake up with 7 different things.

About rolls, I don't think something that's only beatable with a throw on a read, in a game with 7 different wakeup options, that can reverse corner situation, make strings whiff and punish them should only cost 1 bar. Imagine gambling on getting out of the corner and only losing 14% and a defensive bar.

Why should KBs do 32% avg damage when some are safe and fullscreen, while having superarmour? It's a scrub comeback mechanic, which most games have had since SF4.

Lower sonya's damage because she shouldn't be able to do 550-600 damage, did you not watch combo breaker? And her rings shouldn't be the best zoning projectile in the game.

Sure it's not. Play a good scorpion and tell me again it's not a mixup between normal and EX. Especially if they're playing reborn.

 

[Boss Savage]

I'm not sure if this is something that many people would agree with. But I'd make it so all Highs are guaranteed to hit crouch blocking opponents. As they are now it's pointless to use them unless it's a punish.


The majority of people online mash D1. So you're forced to use your Mid attacks to maintain pressure. Sure you can condition your opponent. But still. It's far to easy to mash out of high attacks.

Making all highs hit on crouch block would also add another dimension to neutral. You either block your opponents moves, or go the D1 to interrupt if you guess they're gonna use a high. Just my 2 cents.

 

[NothingPersonal]

You're an idiot.

 

[BarakaTile]

Thats like 5 Kollector buffs too much. Maybe just do f321 buff if thats what the frame data says but thats it.

 

[ShepherdOfFire]

I agree some things but I disagree with some changes. You'd nerf the top tiers way too harshly (like NRS did in MKX), that's the best way to make top tiers useless in one patch. I'd prefer NRS to nerf them a bit until they are considered as balanced.

I want to react to some specific changes you ask :

3: Increase u2 damage to 15%

It already launches, no need to boost the damage, even if the scaling is quite high, a launch is already a good reward.

5: Nerf s1/d1-d3 AA's,

Why ?

9: All d1's are 7f, +10 on hit and -6 on block

Some characters having better pokes than others are part of the game and balancing process, that's why I don't agree here. Let's give a 7 frame d1 to Sonya in the current build and everybody would cry.

Johnny Cage [...]
2: bf2 EX is +1 down from +3 on block

Why would you nerf Cage right now ? I might be biaised but I don't think the character needs any changes right now. FIxing the whiffing issues is the the priority over everything else right now. If Cage is too powerful after that has been fixed then maybe we'll nerf him. And they need to change his KBs to make them easier to trigger.

Sonya Blade:

1: b123 is a string that has to be fully dialed in. b1 is -10 on block. Make her commit to the mix.

2: 134 is flawless block u3-able on the last hit

3: Double the recovery on bf1. Deadshot this projectile.

4: Remove the low profiling on d3

5: b14 is -15 on block and only special cancelable on hit

You're would nerf her way too much. Here what I wrote on how to nerf her without killing her : https://testyourmight.com/threads/theyre-after-our-sonya.69979/page-5#post-2524606

I agree with the Scorpion and Cassie changes (especially the part on Yaas Queen part, I don't know if nerfing the low gunshot is a good idea right now).

 

[BuffRaiden]

No It's actually not at all hyperbolic. She already has very limited mids. Most of what she does can be poked. You are actually talking about bring her down to useless tier. Her zoning should be brought down but her rush down game should remain intact. Just stop making these lists, really. You were a good black manta player, but you've been getting bodied in this game because frankly, you haven't figured out how to play it. It's very obvious based on your scorpion play.

I did address the Jacqui cancels. I think you're a covert Sonya main just arguing in bad faith.

She doesn't have good mids because d3 jails into the b1 mix. She doesn't NEED good mids with the ability to put you in a damaging 50/50 off a crouch poke that's not fuzzyable. Also, a lot of people on the twitter side of this discussion actually agree with making b123 a hard commit dialup string. B12 shouldn't be a stagger. It's a guess on top of a guess. If you try to punish b12 b123 will hit you.

Anyways, this is a bad faith argument with a covert Sonya main for sure. This is the last I'll engage with you because you either don't understand why your character is actually so good or you're afraid to endure changes to the game where you have to adapt. Change is good. Change is okay.

Also says you. You couldn't beat me in a set in this game and I'm actually one of the best Scorpion's in the scene currently. Typical TYMer.

Dude, I main Kabal. You can check on switch for proof. I'm the number 2 ranked player. Which isn't saying much, but I travel too much to play on the PS4.

Having played against good Sonya's, your suggestions are way too harsh.

 

[Divine- Jzb]

Ok so you propose to make the one button that makes jacqui worth playing ass? If f3 were 13f, b34 would no longer frame trap in the first place outside of a d1 check (so what’s the point of making it flawlessblockable?) and she would have no way of keeping respect upclose, which is literally her whole game plan considering she has no full screen options. A reasonable nerf would be making f3/f31 slightly more negative on block. What u propose is to destroy jacqui’s only mids, like what would she have then? The cancels would reach gimmick level because she can’t enforce respect, she wouldn’t have plus frames, no full screen presence. What ur asking makes no sense.

 

[Ayx]

Some of these tweaks and nerfs are just like awkward w/o really knowing the char very well. Kabal for example in his current state doesn't really need tweaking just yet. He's fairly strong, has good meterless combo and one of the best tools in the game having an easy restand (considering getup meta right now is kinda wild.). Same goes to Cage. Not even discussing his trash KB requirements you're just gonna slap him a random nerf for "lolz".

What's your gameplan explanation for Sonya? Trust me I dislike her current build as much as the other non-sonya but this is like TriBorg post nerf levels of nerfing. If you lab against her you can realize that her strings are actually not all that crazy and having her to commit even more to it isn't the solution. (If you can't figure out a counterplay to her strings play practice mode. No freebies just because you're lazy). Deadshot nerfing her projectile is another dumb suggestion. Why does she have to get slammed while Liu Kang can keep his projectile game? Or Kano?

Tbh this sounds borderline witch hunting for that char and it's why I can't take some of these "patch note" discussions seriously.

 

[DeftMonk]

Frost d3 should be looked at imo also, Kotal f223 +10 on block? What the hell. Isn’t that the mid starter string with hella range?? Bro cmon

 

[Chernyy Volk]

Frost d3 should be looked at imo also, Kotal f223 +10 on block? What the hell. Isn’t that the mid starter string with hella range?? Bro cmon

No, that's the slow ass long range high that has a giant gap in the last hit.