Alright so I'm gonna try to explain my reasoning more thoroughly since I felt to a lot of people it would be kind of self evident. The problem with your changes, especially reducing damage, is just neutering. It's just kind of boring. I LIKE from a design perspective that Geras hits hard and I think the threat of the 50/50 KB is fine. What's not fine is the safety off the 50/50, the one dimensional gameplan around f212 where most characters can't poke back because of the pushback, him being able to LAUNCH YOU FOR RIGHTFULLY COUNTER POKING because of u2 being 6f ON TOP OF the neutral control that sand trap gives him.
So here's why I think EVERY nerf I suggested to Geras is fair.
F212: -3 still allows him to fraud out quite a bit against even the highest level players because their pokes don't fucking reach. Due to spacing/hitbox technicalities, this string may as well be plus against some characters, on top of the fact that he puts YOU in a mixup because even if you can successfully counterpoke, he just shimmies you into big damage OR he flawless block/throw tech OS's you. There is no situation when you block f212 where the read is in your favor. -7 prevents this from happening, and flawless blocking makes him have to mix it up a bit into gauntlet cancels etc. I do not believe an 11f gapless triple mid should also be this safe and give him mind games afterward.
111: 11 is still hit confirmable. This is a big ass damage 50/50. I see no universe in which this is unreasonable. I think nerfing the damage just makes this less hype/interesting or threatening. At that rate, I'd just take the sand trap every single time.
Sandtrap In infinite Warden: I feel like this is also obvious. One version simply leaves you in place, while the other one wins neutral for him and puts him right on top of you. This should absolutely be death on block for the reward he gets out of it or it should allow people to gain a fuck ton of ground on him.
Swapping the KB requirements on the sandtraps: Keep in mind that Infinite Warden would technically get a buff in this regard at the cost of no safety. I wanted "if X is X blocking" krushing blows to work out of strings, which his other sandtrap does. This doesn't castrate the 50/50 too badly and also gives him a useful krushing blow in his first variation.
U2 startup: This is also a given. This is such a rule breaker to the fundamentals to the game and I don't understand how people can defend it. I get launched for counter poking, which makes me not want to counter poke AND because it's so fast it allows him to OS a throw tech AND your d1/d3 at the same time? Fuck out of here. U2's should universally be in the same frame data margin.
I don't see after these changes how he's still not a VERY powerful character. He'd still be top 5. He'd just have to play his neutral more cautiously around 11, f32, d4 or b22.
It's an odd notion that nerfing the damage of KBs where the only requirement is basically "land this move" (Geras should not have so many of these in the first place, it's not interesting gameplay; they just automatically do as much damage as the average one bar BNB combo for no reason) is somehow neutering the character but doubling down on hitting f212 in both of the suggested areas isn't. KBs are a gimmick, f212 is the primary component of Geras' game. Making it technically unsafe on top of allowing flawless block doesn't open up 'more options' or create a dynamic of interesting decision making for defender; it simply becomes a static thing you
always do in response, and
always makes the string dogsh*t. It's not a stagger or a mixup. The timing doesn't change and you always complete it because it's safe (and if you kill it early it's like -17). This would unequivocally invalidate the string after 10-15 minutes of labbing.
I'm admittedly not the least bit interested in whether people find changes uninspired or boring, or whether less damaging KBs are "less hype," I care about healthy changes that improve the game and experience playing against the character while maintaining--as much as possible--the character's identity and playability. Nobody thinks Geras having KBs six ways from Sunday that deal 32% and have no requirement is hype anyway. It's just lazy.
I agree on the swapping of KBs for sand trap though: technically infinite warden's 111 mixup becomes a "guess wrong and eat a KB either way" situation.
I've no issue with an U2 nerf. The logic in this being so good was probably along the lines of offsetting his U+3 being punishable whereas most U3s are not, but it's too good.
Which characters can't respond with pokes after blocking f212? Is it any of the 5 that can low profile the 1 on reaction mid-block? I think that's just a pushback issue that needs addressing more than anything.
Let me rein this in some and summarize: I think my main gripe with the nature of your changes is I think it's nigh impossible to argue that the clearest example of Geras being overtuned is his KBs. Sure, it's also a big matter of
everything he does, but the KBs are the glaring stand out. So it's not enough to just hit him with a bunch of miscellaneous nerfs and call it good: if you aren't specifically addressing the problem child and instead nerfing all around it that means post-patch Geras is still the same nonsensical heap of overloaded strength and people are still calling for nerfs because they're still eating his all you can eat buffet of arbitrarily plentiful KBs. One patch later something else (that also isn't the problem) is nerfed and around we go until the KBs are finally recognized and trashed and by then you've removed so much from the character it's overkill. See: Erron Black, MKX.
I don't think Geras has some "right" to be strong, but the pattern with NRS so far is clear. I also don't think we disagree on all that much save f212 as the focal point of attack and in the particular way it's being tackled.
