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Fatal Blows must be changed

HeavyNorse

F*ck Mournful
I mean, seriously, the only way I see this happening is if:

1: The dude about to get a flawless suddenly had a stroke and was twitching on the ground instead of actually playing, or just decided to roll his or her face across the controller at the end (even then, you'd think they'd land a lucky shot doing that lol).

2: The mechanics of the game suddenly changed (as pointed out by @Rozalin1780).

3: @EarlyReflections is lying his ass off.

I think the answer is obvious XD
Everyone can get hesitations or distractions where something like this could happen. But those are human mistakes. Blaming the game or the mechanics of the game is projecting. Because honestly, it's his own fault. If it is indeed true.
 

Scyther

Mortal Kombat-phile
Premium Supporter
Everyone can get hesitations or distractions where something like this could happen. But those are human mistakes. Blaming the game or the mechanics of the game is projecting. Because honestly, it's his own fault. If it is indeed true.
This is true. It is indeed possible, but the odds of this occurring are extremely slim. The entire dynamic of the match would need to change, where the person dominating suddenly can't even get a poke in against the person who seemingly doesn't know what a game pad is.

I've seen reversals happen. Hell, I've gone from winning a match to losing it (FB involved or not), but I've yet to encounter a situation where I'm on the verge of flawless victory while my opponent is near death. At the very least, I've managed to mash out a lucky poke and secure victory. Nor have I ever been able to armor through an attack with just 1% health remaining. That particular detail just isn't possible given the rules that govern the game lol

But yeah, even if this did happen, then it's on the opponent for failing to secure the victory, and on the losing opponent for making a supreme comeback where the FB played only a peripheral role at the end.

Seems like the FB mechanic worked as intended in this magical, highly unlikely scenario.

And again, if @EarlyReflections wanted to really support his argument against FB, he could have used a slightly less transparent lie. Even just a little less, and he'd been fine XD
 

Osagri

Fear the blade of Osh-Tekk
One thing I don't like is if I win round 1 without using my Fatal Blow, I feel like I'm at a significant advantage in round 2. If my opponent is within Fatal Blow kill range there's no reason not to throw it out from a safe distance. If it hits, game over, if not, I'll get it back to try again. This is supposed to be a comeback mechanic mind you. Or if I land 1 hit I can hit confirm into FB to take 40% of your life and the match. Normally to do this I'd need 1 bar of attack meter and my opponent would need to be unable to breakaway, so meter management is gone out the window.

Also, I don't even like how my opponent has to fight when I have FB (as Noob). They're afraid to move and press buttons and shit.
Some things make little fucking sense, indeed. I mean look at the KB requirements for Johnny and then compare them to Erron Black. Also, his Fatal Blow: full screen like Geras. It's just stupid. Full screen FB shouldn't even be a thing imo but if you do have them, make sure the startup is much longer or add more recovery to them so they can be properly punished on whiff AND block.
Geras FB aint full screen
 
No. & No.

Fatal Blows are fine. You get ONE. If you die to it the match was close anyway. They are blockable and easy to read. And no shortcutting the animation the violence and gore are the heart and soul of MK. If you can't handle a 5 to 10 second animation maybe you need to see a therapist for adhd. If it makes you mad, you can get some anger management.

It's not healthy to be this sensitive.
thank you someone understands
 

grandabx

The Flameater
now you are just salty. it's not a blue shell.
It absolutely is a Blue Shell.

It's designed to assist the losing player make a comeback without any effort. The requirements are to only make enough mistakes that put you at 30% or lower life (translation: not doing your job). When close to losing in Mario Kart, the game make it a lot easier to receive a Blue Shell. No player left behind baked into the system.

It would be better to give character's special attacks unique attributes during that period (30% or lower health) for the cost of their full offensive or defensive meter (depending on the character). Which after activating, goes into slow regeneration. Some examples:

Baraka - non-projectile attacks all do bleed damage and cause faster stamina depletion (can't kill on its own, but places opponent on 1%).

Sub Zero - Ice projectiles cause longer stun and freezes other projectiles that then have a freezing attribute if opponent touches them unblocked.

Scorpion - Gains ability to combo into spear and teleport from a lot more attacks and unblocked spears causes fire DOT.

Jade - Glow activates faster and its duration is twice as long. All of her projectiles move faster and are multi-hitting.

Kotal Kahn - 4 attacks have full armor. Can have any number of the same type of totem on screen and they stay on screen no matter what happens.
 
It absolutely is a Blue Shell.

It's designed to assist the losing player make a comeback without any effort. The requirements are to only make enough mistakes that put you at 30% or lower life (translation: not doing your job). When close to losing in Mario Kart, the game make it a lot easier to receive a Blue Shell. No player left behind baked into the system.

It would be better to give character's special attacks unique attributes during that period (30% or lower health) for the cost of their full offensive or defensive meter (depending on the character). Which after activating, goes into slow regeneration. Some examples:

Baraka - non-projectile attacks all do bleed damage and cause faster stamina depletion (can't kill on its own, but places opponent on 1%).

Sub Zero - Ice projectiles cause longer stun and freezes other projectiles that then have a freezing attribute if opponent touches them unblocked.

Scorpion - Gains ability to combo into spear and teleport from a lot more attacks and unblocked spears causes fire DOT.

Jade - Glow activates faster and its duration is twice as long. All of her projectiles move faster and are multi-hitting.

Kotal Kahn - 4 attacks have full armor. Can have any number of the same type of totem on screen and they stay on screen no matter what happens.
It's not without effort when i use a FB i combo into for way more damage, you might be thinking of yourself than other players
 

nodq

wicked
I am kinda ok with a comeback mechanic. But Fatal Blows do not feel good at all. And I do not understand why it triggers at 30% health but every FB does more than 300 damage. Which leads to very awkward situations sometimes. Also when both players have FB, the game slows down very much because none wants to do a mistake or stop blocking because FB = dead. This also happens when you are better, get your opponent to like 2% health and you are just above 30% which means you do not have an powerful full screen 8 frame attack or whatever. But your opponent has and can kill you with just that one single simple move. That is really really annoying to a point that you do not want to do anything because of this one move alone.

Also Fatal Blows are too long, when both players do a FB back to back. That was one point in Injustice 2, these breaks in a game are annoying, where you can not do anything but just watch a long ass animation which becomes boring when you saw it hundreds of times already. Krushing Blows for example are just fine, very short explosive moves and back right to the action and gameplay. I mean Xrays weren't that long too, not like Fatal Blows are currently.

I would like to see the damage nerfed so that they do not do more than 250 damage. Some FBs are much better than others depending on character. I think that is also a problem. The length of those moves needs to be cut in half at least. And it should be gone when it was wasted and not recharge. I don't know who came up with that stupid idea, seriously.

So, in that particular scenario I just mentioned. It is not a comeback mechanic. It is, after getting owned to below 30% health, you get a WIN condition as a gift for failing, because FB will kill your opponent even tho you could have a 2% and the opponent 32%. That is not a comeback, that is a win condition. If the FB would do less than 30% damage it is a comeback. Because a player with 32% can get hit by a FB but then had like 7% health left, if FB did only 250 damage. Then you have a comeback situation. 2% vs 7% health. Which means, that the other players has also access to his FB then to even that out. This also means, the player with 2% would think about getting a starter kombo out which leads into the FB to kill his oppponent. That would be fine imho. But getting hit by single overpowered full or half screen 8 frame moves that kills you right away... just sucks. That has nothing to do with a comeback mechanic.

Edit: Or another Idea. Let the FB scale based on how much health the opponent has left. Lets say you get to 2% and your opponent has 90% let the FB scale full to its 320 damage. Or the opponent has 32% left, let the FB do 200 or 250 damage only. So it would be a comeback mechanic at any point and not only when the opponent has good health left and a win condition when he is just above 30%.
 
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Scyther

Mortal Kombat-phile
Premium Supporter
Question:
If Fatal Blow was removed from the game, would it hurt the game and if so, elaborate on how?
Fatal Blows are never being removed from the game, so the question is moot. They might be altered a bit, maybe have the damage tweaked, but they're never outright being removed. They're a core part of the game, of the formula of MK 11, similar to Towers of Time being a core part of single-player game, and just because the Towers of Time had some issues, NRS didn't outright remove them. They just modified the difficulty and increased the rewards.

And again, another user here had a great suggestion of perhaps making Fatal Blows neat combo-enders that deal a static 10-15% of damage, which I think is a good compromise. If FB's are ever changed, I think that should be the way to go.
 
Fatal Blows are never being removed from the game, so the question is moot. They might be altered a bit, maybe have the damage tweaked, but they're never outright being removed. They're a core part of the game, of the formula of MK 11, similar to Towers of Time being a core part of single-player game, and just because the Towers of Time had some issues, NRS didn't outright remove them. They just modified the difficulty and increased the rewards.

And again, another user here had a great suggestion of perhaps making Fatal Blows neat combo-enders that deal a static 10-15% of damage, which I think is a good compromise. If FB's are ever changed, I think that should be the way to go.
Nice i Agree with u
 

Marlow

Premium
Premium Supporter
And again, another user here had a great suggestion of perhaps making Fatal Blows neat combo-enders that deal a static 10-15% of damage, which I think is a good compromise. If FB's are ever changed, I think that should be the way to go.
That sounds fair. Basically gives the player a one time extra offensive option.
 

Bawlah

Noob
Calling people salty cuz they see things differently than you is pathetic. Assuming everybody who doesnt like the mechanic is a victim makes you look stupid. This together with how you phrased everything else makes it seem that you just like the mechanic cuz it helps you personally win.

Dont agree with it being linked to meter as well, just say that instead of being a douche.

Most of the times its not fun to use and making a comeback with it (for me it isnt), its not fun losing close matches to it and it totally sucks as spectator seeing matches be decided by it.

You call it comeback mechanic, i call it a robbery tool as long as you can use them raw and kill your opponent before he is in range of his own comeback mechanic. Especially if some are a lot stronger than others. Tune the damage down to ~25%, adjust the powerlevel of the FBs to be somewhat the same & make it 1 time use even on whiff (or do you need a comeback mechanic for failing with your comenack mechanic).

As they are now they are simply cheap in my book. You disagree? All good, enjoy it. I hope it changes.
Well, If I came off as a douche, it wasn't intentional (my bad) but I still stand with everything I said earlier. Perhaps throwing a raw FB (especially since it has a relatively short recharge time) is boring to you and I get it! I mean, you land some really good combos and you know deep down, you deserve to win cuz you had a great round and then BOOM! Fatal Blow!!! Your opponent has a chance of winning despite you being the better player that round! It's frustrating but it's a mechanic for both players.

EVERYONE has been a victim of Fatal blows taking a round from them, but we have also taken rounds from opponents thanks to our fatal blows! We can all agree that a fighting game doesn't rely on your skill alone but other factors like reading your opponent and simply put, MIND games. The opponent just made a good read in a boring fashion OR he/she was lucky! Either way, both scenarios happen in fighting games!

If anything, adjust your fighting style when your opponent's fatal blow is ready! A comeback is a comeback! No matter how boring it is! :)
 

Kindred

Let Be Be Finale Of Seem
If they change anything about them, it should be that they are all very punishable if done up close. It should cost you a lot considering it can win you the round
 
My only issue with Fatal Blows is the fact they recharge if blocked. I feel that if you use it, you lose it. 30% dmg from one move isn't an issue in this game, hell look at some of the silly KBs characters have that deal the same damage. Keep the damage, keep the safety. Just make it go away after you throw it out.
 

Osagri

Fear the blade of Osh-Tekk
My 2cents to this FB discussion
Not a fan of this "all should be close range and punishable on block" thing, its good to have different and unique FBs.
What Comes to Errons FB, few thoughts
-keep it safe on block, but make it mad, I mean rly make mad recovery on wiff, make it slower on startup or make it so that he can FB only in rifle stance or something like he have to have all eight bullets on the rifle.( I know the animation might need to be re-done if its from the stance)
Geras FB maybe so he pulls u in when blocked, so it easier to punish.
Edit: oh for got that the dmg should be something like something like 250-340 depending character. It ok imo to some have better dmg in FB than others
 
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grandabx

The Flameater
Fatal Blows are never being removed from the game, so the question is moot. They might be altered a bit, maybe have the damage tweaked, but they're never outright being removed. They're a core part of the game, of the formula of MK 11, similar to Towers of Time being a core part of single-player game, and just because the Towers of Time had some issues, NRS didn't outright remove them. They just modified the difficulty and increased the rewards.

And again, another user here had a great suggestion of perhaps making Fatal Blows neat combo-enders that deal a static 10-15% of damage, which I think is a good compromise. If FB's are ever changed, I think that should be the way to go.
Well, I'll like to point out that that's a choice of NRS and with that choice comes the permanent stigma that your fighting game isn't very honest in it's competitive aspect (like that's a new thing for NRS).

Again, if the mechanic was removed, what would be lost? No one has answered that yet. All I see is name-calling and deflection/projection at play in these comments.
 

Scyther

Mortal Kombat-phile
Premium Supporter
Well, I'll like to point out that that's a choice of NRS and with that choice comes the permanent stigma that your fighting game isn't very honest in it's competitive aspect (like that's a new thing for NRS).

Again, if the mechanic was removed, what would be lost? No one has answered that yet. All I see is name-calling and deflection/projection at play in these comments.
I mean, I'll bite: If Fatal Blow were removed, I don't think MK 11 would collapse into a smoldering, unplayable heap. You'd probably have a game along the lines of one of NRS's older titles, like MKA, or even MK II (with the exception of KB's being a thing still, but not X-Rays/FB's.

I think you'd have matches become lopsided a great deal more often, where the other opponent is so low on health that the odds of them making a comeback would be slim to none, which, personally, I believe would make the game a snooze to play/watch and infinitely less tense.

Would the game be garbage? Absolutely not. Would it be radically changed and perhaps a step backwards? Imo, yes.
 

NeonGroovyGator

Edenia's Ambassador
If the game's supposed to be balanced around the highest level, I don't see the problem with a mechanic that is punishable and predictable in nature and simply makes it that the winning player can't play the exact same way all round long.
At the highest level FBs are mostly used as combo enders and reactive punishes and I really don't see a problem with that. If it's a mechanic that 'loses you games' you're most likely the problem.
 

grandabx

The Flameater
I mean, I'll bite: If Fatal Blow were removed, I don't think MK 11 would collapse into a smoldering, unplayable heap. You'd probably have a game along the lines of one of NRS's older titles, like MKA, or even MK II (with the exception of KB's being a thing still, but not X-Rays/FB's.

I think you'd have matches become lopsided a great deal more often, where the other opponent is so low on health that the odds of them making a comeback would be slim to none, which, personally, I believe would make the game a snooze to play/watch and infinitely less tense.

Would the game be garbage? Absolutely not. Would it be radically changed and perhaps a step backwards? Imo, yes.
So you play/watch fighting games for gimmicks instead of actual skill? Because from your post, someone losing on their own is boring and comeback mechanics (Blue Shells) keep you excited.

Another problem that I've brought up about MK is the chip-kill with no real way to alleviate it (last breath is useless against dot and multi-hit moves). I can see how being low on health brings about a "no real chance" aspect to the game, but that's all on the developers not doing their job to fix the problem. NO other fighting game right now has this ancient problem.

Why not just give characters unique traits like they did in Injustice. Those were very interesting and nowhere near as hand-holding.
 

Scyther

Mortal Kombat-phile
Premium Supporter
So you play/watch fighting games for gimmicks instead of actual skill? Because from your post, someone losing on their own is boring and comeback mechanics (Blue Shells) keep you excited.
No. What I'm saying is, when the opponent has virtually no chance of coming back after, say 20-30 seconds of fighting, and the victor is clear, that takes away some of the tension.

However, if you throw in a comeback mechanic (which is not synonymous with a "Free win" mechanic, as you guys seem to be implying), things remain tense until the very end. FB forces you to treat your opponent like a cornered animal; ie, it's about beaten, but it's also at its most dangerous. So to go in for the kill, you need to watch your steps or you might end up eating a last-gasp 30% blast of damage if you choose to be careless. If that kills you, then you weren't doing so great yourself in terms of remaining health. If you had a 80% health remaining, well now you're down to 50%, and while your opponent might be too weak even after that to turn the match into a victory for them, it could be a 50% vs 30% fight now, and thus the losing opponent isn't quite out of the game yet.
 

grandabx

The Flameater
No. What I'm saying is, when the opponent has virtually no chance of coming back after, say 20-30 seconds of fighting, and the victor is clear, that takes away some of the tension.

However, if you throw in a comeback mechanic (which is not synonymous with a "Free win" mechanic, as you guys seem to be implying), things remain tense until the very end. FB forces you to treat your opponent like a cornered animal; ie, it's about beaten, but it's also at its most dangerous. So to go in for the kill, you need to watch your steps or you might end up eating a last-gasp 30% blast of damage if you choose to be careless. If that kills you, then you weren't doing so great yourself in terms of remaining health. If you had a 80% health remaining, well now you're down to 50%, and while your opponent might be too weak even after that to turn the match into a victory for them, it could be a 50% vs 30% fight now, and thus the losing opponent isn't quite out of the game yet.
Again, that is a MK problem all based around it's stupid chip-kill system. Chip/chip-kill is perfectly fine, but there must be a system in place to counter it (Last Breath is useless). It's even more magnified in MK because normal attacks do chip (even teching a throw does chip lol). Again, NO other current fighting game has this ancient problem.

It's at this point, MK is keeping/adding things for the sake of being different, but they don't have any type of logical application.

How many examples must I show of comebacks in games that have chip-kill, but better counteracting systems? For now, I'll just give one:

Note: Anti-chip mechanic is Barrier meter. Comeback mechanics are Supers and Overdrive.