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Fatal Blows must be changed

Its just like Xray in MKX. But at least the Xray had risk reward balance.
Isn't a big part of the risk of Fatal Blows is that it's a one use only option? Use it in the first round and it's gone for the 2nd and 3rd if you get that far. If you keep it for the 2nd you might be down 1 round and gives the other player some momentum to pummel you in the 2nd round.

It definitely adds another layer of mindgames to deal with.

But at least in MK11 you still have your def/off meters to play with so you're not completely stuck with no options. And seeing as it's only ~30% damage, it's still not much worse than many combo's esp. when a KB is added.

Some should probably be tweaked as they're a little too OP as have been mentioned, but overall they're not an "I win" button as it seems many as saying.
 

xKMMx

Noob
Isn't a big part of the risk of Fatal Blows is that it's a one use only option? Use it in the first round and it's gone for the 2nd and 3rd if you get that far. If you keep it for the 2nd you might be down 1 round and gives the other player some momentum to pummel you in the 2nd round.

It definitely adds another layer of mindgames to deal with.

But at least in MK11 you still have your def/off meters to play with so you're not completely stuck with no options. And seeing as it's only ~30% damage, it's still not much worse than many combo's esp. when a KB is added.

Some should probably be tweaked as they're a little too OP as have been mentioned, but overall they're not an "I win" button as it seems many as saying.
I mean yea but honestly the way they recharge for free is kinda whack. In MKX if you wanted to throw out an Xray out of desperation late in a round you were screwed for resources if you missed.
I don't know man I'm honestly worn out on the debates to be honest. THeres a lot of crap to not like about the game but it is here and its the way it is and probably will stay so like it or not its time to adjust and get over it I suppose.
 

Jynks

some heroes are born, some made, some wondrous
I tend to agree. I actually like FB a lot... watching summit shows just how epic and exciting they are.. but I think that missing them could maybe have a larger consequence. Sure they are all punishable on block but even so.. I that having a longer recharge time if you miss might be cool.
 

Wallach

Noob
I tend to agree. I actually like FB a lot... watching summit shows just how epic and exciting they are.. but I think that missing them could maybe have a larger consequence. Sure they are all punishable on block but even so.. I that having a longer recharge time if you miss might be cool.
This is about where I am. I think you should only have one shot at using Fatal Blow per round. If you don't land it, you can try again next round (if you get a next round). That makes more sense to me than seeing them recharge in only 10 seconds.
 

RNLDRGN

RONALD ROGAN
Lol, calling people scrubs coz they disagree and assuming they dont play other fighters. Tell me a modern day fighter where isnt somekind of "comeback mechanic or scrub mechanic"? Oh and the "if u Kids..." rly original and fresh
I wasn't speaking about comeback mechanics in general, but MK11's Fatal Blows not being spent for the round after using it is a good example. They should be easily punishable (many aren't) and should stay gone for that round if yours misses or is blocked.

Better examples of "tradition" mechanics I was speaking to that are awful:
-block button (not necessary in a 2D game, literally no other mainstay 2D fighter has one)
-throw techs being 50-50s (just handle throws like every other game)
-pokes not having pushback (D1 and D3)
-buffers for specials being different than buffers for normals

Note this list isn't huge. Game is good.

It's not some huge secret that the majority of NRS players don't play other fighters. Aside from SonicFox and a small handful of others, what players have had success in other games? Not many. Playing lots of other games shows you just how polished NRS games are--but it also makes it painfully obvious which mechanics are outdated relics that need to be replaced/updated.
 
I wasn't speaking about comeback mechanics in general, but MK11's Fatal Blows not being spent for the round after using it is a good example. They should be easily punishable (many aren't) and should stay gone for that round if yours misses or is blocked.

Better examples of "tradition" mechanics I was speaking to that are awful:
-block button (not necessary in a 2D game, literally no other mainstay 2D fighter has one)
-throw techs being 50-50s (just handle throws like every other game)
-pokes not having pushback (D1 and D3)
-buffers for specials being different than buffers for normals

Note this list isn't huge. Game is good.

It's not some huge secret that the majority of NRS players don't play other fighters. Aside from SonicFox and a small handful of others, what players have had success in other games? Not many. Playing lots of other games shows you just how polished NRS games are--but it also makes it painfully obvious which mechanics are outdated relics that need to be replaced/updated.
I don't see any problem with having a block button. It's a legacy mechanic, but it does also change the game because if you hold back to block then inputs out of block are different. Also you couldn't dash-block + wavedash without a button. Throw techs being 50/50s mean that characters lacking fast mids or mix-up have a presence up close (johnny cage). Pokes not having pushback, idk, and idk about buffers for specials vs. normals, but I don't necessarily see how those are "awful" either.
 

grandabx

The Flameater
I don't see any problem with having a block button. It's a legacy mechanic, but it does also change the game because if you hold back to block then inputs out of block are different. Also you couldn't dash-block + wavedash without a button. Throw techs being 50/50s mean that characters lacking fast mids or mix-up have a presence up close (johnny cage). Pokes not having pushback, idk, and idk about buffers for specials vs. normals, but I don't necessarily see how those are "awful" either.
All of the bolded is the problem with the gameplay: They're not needed and need to be updated. Tradition is just a binding mentality. There's no logical reason for a block button in a 2d fighter. The Scorpion's teleport excuse is lame because it used to be slower and easily crouched under. It used to be a primary anti-zoning tool and not a combo starter.

Not even Tekken, the game Boon is obsessed with has a block button. It's arbitrary to have to press two button just to block low and two different button commands to break throws. It works in Tekken because you can clearly see what type of throw is being used and characters fight from different angles (dodging). MK only has left and right to worry about. Logic, not just throwing things into the cauldron and calling it "different". They need to have logical application, which the above mechanics do not. The same can be said for how arbitrary it is to delay wake-up and counter from the ground.

Even the dial-a-combo system is conflicting with the purpose of neutral play, where it's more about memorization than reaction and reads. I know it's not going anywhere (facepalm), but can the game and it's characters not be all about who has the best strings? Please? Good gracious! Where are the ground/air 2-in-1 combos at? Where's interaction with specials vs specials and normal attacks vs specials? Special and normal attacks with unique attributes for neutral like how Jade's glow invalidates projectiles for a short time and back kicks that don't knockdown, but allow standing combos. There needs to be more of that type of nuance in strings, normals and specials. More branching points in strings with dash/special cancels, etc. It needs the back-n-forth play in every aspect and keeping players honest. That's neutral.

If the game is going to be based around neutral, a player should have the option of not relying on strings to succeed. Strings are not neutral play. They're the end result of winning neutral and predictable (memory-based) strings leads to a stagnated game.

There's really no purpose to Fatal Blows except to heavily hand-hold. Why not give each character unique traits at 30% or lower health? Something like the traits from Injustice. That would require actual skill instead of some auto-combo that does all the work for the player. Also, change breakaway into a MK 9 breaker. That way, players can break on the ground as well and not drop out with the chance to attack the aggressor right away. It goes right back to a full neutral position. And finally, lose the chip-kill. Make players earn the last hit. Those would be better (and more exciting) comeback mechanics.
 
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DixieFlatline78

En garde. I'll let you try my Wu Tang style
I hate Fatal Blows so bad. Whenever I win a round with raw Fatal Blow I just dont feel good about it. For some characters it's practically a Win-the-Game button. I get so salty when I conditioned them to expect something and properly mix them up but they jam on their 32% two button move with frame five armor.
 

xenogorgeous

At last. The Gathering...
Premium Supporter
I hate Fatal Blows so bad. Whenever I win a round with raw Fatal Blow I just dont feel good about it. For some characters it's practically a Win-the-Game button. I get so salty when I conditioned them to expect something and properly mix them up but they jam on their 32% two button move with frame five armor.
it's the cooldown mechanic that fuck up FB .... if you could use FB just one single time, hitting the spot with or totally missing, and so, after that FB is gone, ok , that's it ... but once, if you miss it, you just happen to manage and survive 10 more seconds and FB come again active , the whole match just turn it into a frenzy "cat catching mouse" guess game : "who gonna poke first and link with that FB to win ?" see it ? it's boring, hehe :p
 

grandabx

The Flameater
it's the cooldown mechanic that fuck up FB .... if you could use FB just one single time, hitting the spot with or totally missing, and so, after that FB is gone, ok , that's it ... but once, if you miss it, you just happen to manage and survive 10 more seconds and FB come again active , the whole match just turn it into a frenzy "cat catching mouse" guess game : "who gonna poke first and link with that FB to win ?" see it ? it's boring, hehe :p
It's application is still bad. It's slows down the game because it's automatic and on the final round, it's the focus point. Traits would be better.
 

Lex Luthor II

Lord of Lightning
THE BIGGEST problem with fatal blow is in this situation: you have 33% life and your opponent has 27% life, now they have fatal blow locked and loaded but you don't because you did better so far. Now they hit you once game over no chance for using defensive meter.

If fatal blow becomes available to one player, the OTHER player should get access to it as well. Its annoying hitting that spot where you are upset you have more life than them, when they have fatal blow.
 

Kindred

Let Be Be Finale Of Seem
THE BIGGEST problem with fatal blow is in this situation: you have 33% life and your opponent has 27% life, now they have fatal blow locked and loaded but you don't because you did better so far. Now they hit you once game over no chance for using defensive meter.

If fatal blow becomes available to one player, the OTHER player should get access to it as well. Its annoying hitting that spot where you are upset you have more life than them, when they have fatal blow.
lol wot....I disagree .
If you have 33% and your opponent is at 27%, I would call it pretty even. I wouldnt say you did better just because you are a poke away from being at the same health meter :rolleyes:. Moments like these you gotta become vigilant and that's it.

Now, imagine you get your opponent to 27% and you're at 95% health. Suddenly, u get a FB because your opponent has one....that's a terrible idea and essentially brings their chances of a comeback to 0. Especially since FB recharge if they miss.

The biggest problem with FB is that it should be heavily punishable for everyone, without a pushback that makes it safe. And to those who have a long range one (ex: Frost and Erron), then it should take longer to recharge. It should be a high risk/high reward move.
 
I feel that one or the other should happened to fatal blows tell me if you agree with one of them or not. ONE, every single FB that is blocked should be EASY to punish but it still recharges like normal and it can only be preformed once. TWO, when a FB is attempted it should take all your DEF and OFF to be preformed and still can only be preformed once but some are still safe and have knock back. If you don't have full OFF and DEF it will not be performed. (kind of like an mkx x-ray)
 
FB should be -10000 on block, do we really need to remember how to punish every single one of them based on the pushback? Like one thing are moves that can be used any time in the game, so you can learn it by just playing, but this is pure tedious labing time consuming bs...
 

Dreamcatcher

BaCk FrOm ThE dEaD
Royal Contributor
No I mean specifically the very last bullet. I've had a few times where I caught someone jumping and hit the FB, but somehow they landed on the ground before it was done. So I'm guessing only the last bullet in his startup actually triggers it.
 

cavemold

Noob
No I mean specifically the very last bullet. I've had a few times where I caught someone jumping and hit the FB, but somehow they landed on the ground before it was done. So I'm guessing only the last bullet in his startup actually triggers it.
hmmm really thats intresting...
 
It may have already been mentioned, but another solution is to lower FB from 30% life to maybe 15% life. Like others are mentioning, missing it should now allow you to use it again at all.

FB animations are starting to get tiring. Especially peeves me when someone does it instead of the fatality after I already lost.
 

Wigy

There it is...
It's stupid on some characters.

Geras or erron on 30% hp. Better not even think of pressing a button.