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General/Other - D'Vorah D'Vorah General Discussion Thread

NoonOnyx

Noob
Can anyone confirm the venomous damage nerf amount? I'm at work and I can't check for myself
So I finished updating the Google Doc (http://tinyurl.com/p9nbdxw) with the changes from 9/21 patch/hotfix or whatever it was. Before the changes the bonus damage worked off of 0.5 damage and now that multiplier changed to 0.35. If you scroll down to the links next to the graphs you can see the new graph and the old one to compare. :D

Also since I'm trash and can't do the high scaling venom combos if there are any changes aside from the damage multiplier I won't be able to find it like what @Second Saint was saying if there is a venom cap or various things of that nature.
 
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Second Saint

A man with too many names.
So I finished updating the Google Doc (http://tinyurl.com/p9nbdxw) with the changes from 9/21 patch/hotfix or whatever it was. Before the changes the bonus damage worked off of 0.5 damage and now that multiplier changed to 0.35. If you scroll down to the links next to the graphs you can see the new graph and the old one to compare. :D

Also since I'm trash and can't do the high scaling venom combos if there are any changes aside from the damage multiplier I won't be able to find it like what @Second Saint was saying if there is a venom cap or various things of that nature.
You wouldn't have to do a combo to figure out if there was a venom cap. Just the normal d1/d3 spam and add up the damage would do it. Even the highest of venom stacking combos only get to about 11, so anything beyond that doesn't matter too much. Basically, as long as things are accurate until that point, it doesn't make a practical difference. The only variable left is venom scaling during combos, which we can sort of work around, but I don't know if it's worth it anymore with the lower venom damage overall.

I figure PC will get the patch at least by Kombat Pack 2.... I really wish NRS would start delaying their patches until they can all be released simultaneously.
 

EntropicByDesign

It's all so very confusing.
I posted this in the combo thread initially, but this is a little more appropriate of a place, so i thought Id post it here as well.

Are there any PC players interested in taking on a newb 'student'? I'd love to find an experienced player for *regular* matches. Daily or close to daily. Its nearly impossible for me to learn effectively playing randoms online because, quite literally, 1-2 matches in 20 are playable. I have however had decent luck finding people here or via streams and have managed a handful of actually playable games. This has really re-energized me with MKX. I've had the game since release but have barely actually *played* it vs human opponents due to unplayable lagg, and for much of the games early life, unplayable performance issues on PC. So, I am effectively a newb.

Anyway, just seeing if anyone out there is interested. I play on PC, I'm located in Kentucky, so mid-east-ish U.S. Its hard to say who I main right now, but its kind of mixed up between D'vorah (venom) Erron Black (I know the *very* basics of Outlaw, but am kinda liking Gunslinger more-so) and Sub (Cryo is probably the variation and character I'm 'best' on. I use that term loosely.)

Im far from a pro, but I DO have a solid knowledge of SFIV and could return the 'training' favor there if you were interested in learning....
 

Second Saint

A man with too many names.
I posted this in the combo thread initially, but this is a little more appropriate of a place, so i thought Id post it here as well.

Are there any PC players interested in taking on a newb 'student'? I'd love to find an experienced player for *regular* matches. Daily or close to daily. Its nearly impossible for me to learn effectively playing randoms online because, quite literally, 1-2 matches in 20 are playable. I have however had decent luck finding people here or via streams and have managed a handful of actually playable games. This has really re-energized me with MKX. I've had the game since release but have barely actually *played* it vs human opponents due to unplayable lagg, and for much of the games early life, unplayable performance issues on PC. So, I am effectively a newb.

Anyway, just seeing if anyone out there is interested. I play on PC, I'm located in Kentucky, so mid-east-ish U.S. Its hard to say who I main right now, but its kind of mixed up between D'vorah (venom) Erron Black (I know the *very* basics of Outlaw, but am kinda liking Gunslinger more-so) and Sub (Cryo is probably the variation and character I'm 'best' on. I use that term loosely.)

Im far from a pro, but I DO have a solid knowledge of SFIV and could return the 'training' favor there if you were interested in learning....
I'd be up for helping you learn Venomous. I don't have much experience with any of the others. My steam id is Coin Flip [USA]. I don't know if I can play every day, but I can promise at least a few ft10's every week. Also, I'm from South East Texas, so we should be ok as far as connection goes. It'll definitely be better than trying to play the Europeans.
 

Blewdew

PSN: MaxKayX3
I don't if it has been mentioned yet but I feel like b1 wgc is pretty easy to pull off lately. I haven't used it before pre Patch because the timing was pretty tight but at the Moment it feels like you have more time to connect 212.
 

SaJa

FH_FenriR
I'm playing Dvorah as another secondary for a few days now. I was wondering in what matchups we have the green light to zone or not. :eek:
 

Blewdew

PSN: MaxKayX3
Swarm Queen mainly.
Zoning with swarm queen can be difficult since wasp grenade and swarm have huge startups. At fullscreen range swarm can be used as a counter tool against characters with no air projectiles (the absolutely worst to anti-zone are pyromancer tanya, kitana and DF lui imo). Grandmaster sub zero for example can't do much against us fullscreen. His clone get's blown up with swarm and when he tries to throw the clone either jump up or run towards him and do d4 even if doesn't hit it lowers your hitbox and the clone won't hit you.

Basically you can "zone" anyone who has to come in and doesn't have good projectiles ( outlaw erron or lackey F/T for example). You can also throw a wasp grenade here and there. On hit you can immediatly swarm and it will connect and on block it's +20 or something like that and you can swarm after that as well since they will be hit by swarm if they try to jump out. And when they are near you play the footsie game she's amazing at that. D3 is fast and has great reach, f112 leads into pressure, f22 leads into full combo punish and d2 is amazing for punishing jumps
 

SaJa

FH_FenriR
Damn, I though I could trade projectiles (db1) in some matchups. So I gotta play Brood Mother too then.
 

DarksydeDash

You know me as RisingShieldBro online.
Hey guys I'm trying to branch off and learn new characters and I was wondering if someone could give me some pointers of DV's Venomous and Brood mother variations? I got her swarm queen down very well I would say.
 

Second Saint

A man with too many names.
Hey guys I'm trying to branch off and learn new characters and I was wondering if someone could give me some pointers of DV's Venomous and Brood mother variations? I got her swarm queen down very well I would say.
Well, I don't know much about Brood Mother, but VAAAAAAAAAAN posted a guide to it a few pages back.
Made another thing. A Brood Mother Tutorial


hope it helps

Edit:

PS: 50% for a bar with Venomous off 212 in the corner

As for Venomous, it's very simple.
  • Use overheads and lows into bug spray
  • Vary your timing on block to throw them off so they have to react to punish. (-17 on block)
  • If they always poke back with a high, low profile them with d4
  • If someone wants to trade pokes with you, cancel your poke into bug spray to open them up.
  • F11 stagger pressure has it's uses since f11 is neutral on block
  • f112~EX Bug spray is ~13% chip
  • Punish with 212~ex db1, njp, ji1, rc, f22~db4 midscreen (or just 112~bugspray for a faster punish)
  • Her armor is still horrible because it only adds one stack of venom.
  • X-ray is god like
  • You can absolutely kill someone with pokes alone due to venom stacking.
  • There are very damaging corner combos, but they honestly don't come into play that much because they aren't part of the corner vortex.
That's pretty much the basics. I love Venomous, and I've put a lot of work into it, but I've come to the realization that it really is just one big gimmick. When your opponent can deal with that, her pressure is nonexistent. It's rather frustrating.
 
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After suffering a crushing loss to Honeybee on his stream, I've been on the hunt for a D'Vorah to play against over PS4, Swarm Queen specifically. "Rewind This" Was recommended by one of my training partners SylverRye. Though I am open to anyone who would be willing to assist.
 

lostwin1

TWO minutes
so, do you guys know b1rc is hitconfirmable? i've been practicing this for awhile and can do it 7/10 now.
The only time i saw someone talking about this was a discussion saying how b1 is unsafe because its impossible to hitconfirm, but it was months ago so im not really sure if this is known.
Its interesting because this makes dvorah SQ even harder to use at full potential, godlike reactions and good execution are must-have tools.
 

Rey

Reycier
No chance to hitcornfirm the b1wgc.
You have to press the wgc immediately and there is no time to look if the opponent is blocking.
Its a three frame link, so if you wait too long the opponent can block after your wgc.
But most of the time your opponent is blocking high anyway.
In my opinion without the use of b1 wgc, swarm queen is much much weaker cause you just need to block high.
 

lostwin1

TWO minutes
No chance to hitcornfirm the b1wgc.
You have to press the wgc immediately and there is no time to look if the opponent is blocking.
Its a three frame link, so if you wait too long the opponent can block after your wgc.
But most of the time your opponent is blocking high anyway.
In my opinion without the use of b1 wgc, swarm queen is much much weaker cause you just need to block high.
you have some frames to cancel, you dont need to press the wgc immediately because its not a justframe cancel.

watch this vid http://xboxclips.com/lostwin1/6542e424-5cfe-4174-a612-442c71cecfa3

edit: i can record against other reversals later if you want, used exflip because its the fastest.
 
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Reactions: Rey

Rey

Reycier
This looks awesome!
Any trick to hitcornfirm this like this or is it just training?
How do you cancel to block so fast?
And u blocking low right?
Very nice stuff!
Have to test it at home ;)
 

Rey

Reycier
@lostwin1
first, respekt for your very nice execution!
tested it and you are right. it works.
but need many train for that.
now i understand the crouch cancel system.
i had so much problems before with wgc block.
for example f22 wgc block on block.
thanks for your help :cool:
 

lostwin1

TWO minutes
@Rey
Its just training crouch block, cancel timing and reaction.
There's a frame you can cancel b1wgc to make it work on hit and on block, you'll need to find that frame and start practicing always canceling b1 like this, using this system make it easier for me.


Sorry i forgot to tell about the crouch block system, idk if this is known too but

The crouch block trick is canceling the run with DOWN instead of block, consider run (ff+block) and dash (ff), so the imput will change from:
b1wgcRUN~Block
to
b1wgcFF~Block(hold)+Down


if you dash (FF) and press block+down fast enough the game will register a run and automatically cancel into crouch block.

Keep in mind you don't need to wait the FF animation before pressing block, just do it fast like a Run but hold block and it will work.

Heres a video to show the imput without bug cancel:
http://xboxclips.com/lostwin1/f6a30f94-b3de-4f4f-b1e4-a7942dfe8f03

This makes it easier because you don't need to press block 2 times in a row, you can see in the vid i never press RT 2 times.

When hit confirming you don't press down and do FF~Block(hold)+212 or whatever you want and Dvorah will run into any string in the first frame possible even if you hold block.

So basically on block or hit you use the same system, hold block and react with 212 or Down according.

I still drop the combo sometimes for being too slow, but i prefer to drop a combo 1 or 2 times per match instead of being full combo punished, but i feel like i'll learn to do 10/10 consistently in a few weeks :p

Sorry for grammar errors, english isnt my primary language, tell me if this is not understandable and i'll do my best to rewrite. lol
 
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Reactions: Rey

Rey

Reycier
Very nice man!
I'm understanding you pretty well and my English is not better than urs :D
Thank you very much!
Somewhere I heard about the crouch cancel but now I'm understanding it.
Helps a lot!
Nice stuff and nice execution!
Top!
 

Second Saint

A man with too many names.
In lieu of starting our own KP 2 buff thread, I figured I'd just keep it in here.

I think we can all agree that Swarm Queen is just fine, but Venomous and Brood Mother are lacking in some area or another. Universally speaking, D'vorah could probably use a better armor move on one of her variations. I'd like to start a discussion on what areas need addressing for Venom and BM and the best way to improve them so they have a good reason to be used, as opposed to being eclipsed by Swarm Queen.

The issues with Venomous I've found most problematic are how the variation is entirely reliant on gimmicks and stagger pressure, lack of corner carry, bug spray not being plus enough on hit to guarantee pressure midscreen depending on what distance you originally hit them at, venom ticks not killing despite being a major source of damage for her, and of course having no answer to high pressure due to slow armor.

I used to think that Venomous needed an armored launcher, but after actually thinking it through, such a buff would likely break her. Even if it was reasonable damage midscreen, in the corner it would be a 45% restand or more, easily. If something like this happened, venom bonus damage scaling would have to be nerfed yet again to compensate.

I don't feel like I'm qualified to speak on Brood Mother, having not really put much time into it. My initial thoughts on it were something along the lines of it having good setups, but the ability to combo just wasn't really there (or at least it's hidden behind an execution wall I cannot surmount).

I'd love to hear any suggestions that you all may have for these two variations, or even just your opinions on what their problems may be specifically.