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General/Other - D'Vorah D'Vorah General Discussion Thread

kraezyx

kraezyx

I never considered you at all.
VAAAAAAAAN said:
Trying out the xbox editor. I was gunna add more but it started chugging and I got scared of loosing it all, so this is what I got. I might redo it after the hotfix comes out, assuming run cancels are reinstated.

Click to expand...
Great vid, picked up BroodMother pre-patch and the setups were fun, but this definitely improves her. Just needs the hood buff now.
 
Second Saint

Second Saint

A man with too many names.
TopTierHarley said:
I mean those combos will become obsolete once they fix the venomous bug, so don't sweat it
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I don't really know that they'll be obsolete. Even once they get fixed, venom stacking should still be legitimate.

Oh hey, I got curious about how the bug was behaving, so I made a graph of what's happening, and it's scaling exactly how it's described to in @Zoidberg747 's Venomous guide. If this is a bug, it's been in for a good long while and no one ever cared because there wasn't really a practical way to get stacks that high.



Venom ticks being explained in May:
TerribleMatt said:
I posted the basics of how the poison stacks in the general discussion thread a while ago, what happens is each standard ovi hit does 0.3% per tick for a total of 1.5% over 5 ticks (if the ticks are already going when you hit, that 1.5% will be distributed between the remaining ticks, thus seeming like more damage than it really is). Each successive standard ovi hit during the 5 seconds (it is exactly 5 seconds, 1 per tick) will add another 1.5% to the total DOT. Additionally, each extra poison tick gains some extra damage based on how many hits you have stacked already, such that hit number 2 will actually add 2%, hit 3 will add 2.5% and so on. The numbers change a little if you use njp or the second hit of f22, however, and if you mix them then they start to add up differently to how you'd expect, so clearly the formula isn't quite so simple.

Basically, each hit adds the standard poison damage of that hit plus a bonus multiplied by the number of poison hits currently in the counter, the remaining poison damage is distributed between the remaining ticks and when the 5 ticks are over, the damage and number of poison hits both reset to zero.
Click to expand...

This is exactly what's happening now. Each additional application of venom increases the initial damage by another .5% until the 5 second timer is up. After looking into it like this, I'm not sure this is a bug so much as NRS not realizing just how high the Venom mechanic could scale.
 
TopTierHarley

TopTierHarley

Kytinn King
Second Saint said:
I don't really know that they'll be obsolete. Even once they get fixed, venom stacking should still be legitimate.

Oh hey, I got curious about how the bug was behaving, so I made a graph of what's happening, and it's scaling exactly how it's described to in @Zoidberg747 's Venomous guide. If this is a bug, it's been in for a good long while and no one ever cared because there wasn't really a practical way to get stacks that high.



Venom ticks being explained in May:



This is exactly what's happening now. Each additional application of venom increases the initial damage by another .5% until the 5 second timer is up. After looking into it like this, I'm not sure this is a bug so much as NRS not realizing just how high the Venom mechanic could scale.
Click to expand...
Very interesting, yea it seems to actually be "working as intended" I withdraw my previous statement lol.
I agree, they probably didn't expect it to do this since she had fewer stacking options. Also thanks for the graph.
 
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smokey

smokey

EX Ovi should launch
TopTierHarley said:
Very interesting, yea it seems to actually be "working as intended" I withdraw my previous statement lol.
I agree they probably didn't expect it to this since she had fewer stacking options. Also thanks for the graph.
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With the corner combo ive been doing i can get 212 into 7 d1's into 11~ovi which works out as 11 stacks, ticking for ~8% after the last hit is dealt. If you do a jip or 11b2 to start the combo the poison stacks dont last through the ovi stabs, so the poison only ticks for 0.3% after.
Is there some way you can explain that relating to the graph? Would it be worth doing the combos as variationless to see exactly what venom damage is added?
 
TopTierHarley

TopTierHarley

Kytinn King
smokey said:
With the corner combo ive been doing i can get 212 into 7 d1's into 11~ovi which works out as 11 stacks, ticking for ~8% after the last hit is dealt. If you do a jip or 11b2 to start the combo the poison stacks dont last through the ovi stabs, so the poison only ticks for 0.3% after.
Is there some way you can explain that relating to the graph? Would it be worth doing the combos as variationless to see exactly what venom damage is added?
Click to expand...
Hmm, I'm pretty sure since you are starting with a jip or 11b2 the ticks begin there since both the jip and 11 both add venom now. So it will do less than your previous combo due to the 5 second time limit. Once the limit is up, it resets even if it is mid combo.
Is this what you are referring to?
 
smokey

smokey

EX Ovi should launch
TopTierHarley said:
Hmm, I'm pretty sure since you are starting with a jip or 11b2 the ticks begin there since both the jip and 11 both add venom now. So it will do less than your previous combo due to the 5 second time limit. Once the limit is up, it resets even if it is mid combo.
Is this what you are referring to?
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Yeah its to do with the time limit i guess. Getting the first d1 to be the first tick seems to be the best way, unless you can get the bigger stacks by swapping out some d1's for d3's either early or later this seems like the best way to rack up damage in the corner.

I was more looking at how many hits of venom (11) comes up on the chart at like over 30% damage from the venom total, would doing 212 d1x7 11~ovi as variationless dvorah only do like 10-20% ?
 
TopTierHarley

TopTierHarley

Kytinn King
smokey said:
Yeah its to do with the time limit i guess. Getting the first d1 to be the first tick seems to be the best way, unless you can get the bigger stacks by swapping out some d1's for d3's either early or later this seems like the best way to rack up damage in the corner.

I was more looking at how many hits of venom (11) comes up on the chart at like over 30% damage from the venom total, would doing 212 d1x7 11~ovi as variationless dvorah only do like 10-20% ?
Click to expand...
I would have to test that since I've never used variationless D'vorah. In theory it should, since d1 stacks pretty well since it's fast. I don't have my ps4 right now but I'm sure the other D'vorah players can test this.
 
smokey

smokey

EX Ovi should launch
TopTierHarley said:
I would have to test that since I've never used variationless D'vorah. In theory it should, since d1 stacks pretty well since it's fast. I don't have my ps4 right now but I'm sure the other D'vorah players can test this.
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Well the combo in total does around 40-45% i cant remember exactly but you get 2 giant ticks on the end of the ovi for 8% each and the combo counter is above 30% at that point. If the chart is correct than like 30-40% of that is from venom ticks alone, so the physical hits cant be doing much damage.
 
Second Saint

Second Saint

A man with too many names.
smokey said:
Yeah its to do with the time limit i guess. Getting the first d1 to be the first tick seems to be the best way, unless you can get the bigger stacks by swapping out some d1's for d3's either early or later this seems like the best way to rack up damage in the corner.

I was more looking at how many hits of venom (11) comes up on the chart at like over 30% damage from the venom total, would doing 212 d1x7 11~ovi as variationless dvorah only do like 10-20% ?
Click to expand...
That combo actually only has 9 venom applications. Seven for the d1's and two for the 11~ovi. The initial venom damage should be around 6.5%, but the bonus damage per application (8, one less than the total number of venom stacks because the first stack applies no bonus) is 18% for a total of 24.5% damage from Venom in that combo. Conveniently, the chart I made only goes up to 8.

How long after the combo ends do the ticks keep going? The bonus damage is really high at that point, so any additional venom hits after the combo are going to add 4.5 + base DOT damage. So 5% for a d1, 6% for most everything else.
 
smokey

smokey

EX Ovi should launch
Second Saint said:
That combo actually only has 9 venom applications. Seven for the d1's and two for the 11~ovi. The initial venom damage should be around 6.5%, but the bonus damage per application (8, one less than the total number of venom stacks because the first stack applies no bonus) is 18% for a total of 24.5% damage from Venom in that combo. Conveniently, the chart I made only goes up to 8.

How long after the combo ends do the ticks keep going? The bonus damage is really high at that point, so any additional venom hits after the combo are going to add 4.5 + base DOT damage. So 5% for a d1, 6% for most everything else.
Click to expand...
Theres 1 or 2 tocks after the ovi but sometimes it counts it in the combo damage. Didnt know 11ovi was only 2 stacks, might try d3 instead of 11.
 
Second Saint

Second Saint

A man with too many names.
TopTierHarley said:
So a friend of mine RaginRaijin made this Google doc of Venomous damage, stacks, etc. Check it out and help add to it so we can have a completely accurate chart.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1PqteB-tDLSg2zinQeV1v0NwJ7ji5W4jfDoLw9l5QEC8/edit?usp=sharing
Click to expand...
Wow, good job RaginRaijin. Well, the only thing I can add is that in the first chart, column D specifically, it starts at 0.5, when it should start at 0. If you make that adjustment, you'll find that it mirrors column M. This is actually a mistake I made initially. It's important to remember that your bonus damage needs to be calculated from total venom hits-1, as the first application does not have a bonus.

Also, the chart doesn't take into account that certain moves have different base ticks. D1 only ticks for 0.1 for a total of 0.5, NJP ticks for 0.5/2.5, and the second hit of f22 ticks for 0.4/2.0. Everything else ticks for 0.3/1.5. This is why there can be discrepancies in calculating some strings and combos. You've got to accurately put the base damage in.

EDIT: Now that I look closer, the final adjusted damage is wrong. He's adding the bonus damage as if it's stacking up 0.5 at a time. It's not doing that; it's stacking 0.5+1+1.5+2+2.5. I don't know the word for it, but the bonus damage adds on top of itself. Each additional hit adds as much as the last one +.5
 
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TopTierHarley

TopTierHarley

Kytinn King
Second Saint said:
Wow, good job RaginRaijin. Well, the only thing I can add is that in the first chart, column D specifically, it starts at 0.5, when it should start at 0. If you make that adjustment, you'll find that it mirrors column M. This is actually a mistake I made initially. It's important to remember that your bonus damage needs to be calculated from total venom hits-1, as the first application does not have a bonus.

Also, the chart doesn't take into account that certain moves have different base ticks. D1 only ticks for 0.1 for a total of 0.5, NJP ticks for 0.5/2.5, and the second hit of f22 ticks for 0.4/2.0. Everything else ticks for 0.3/1.5. This is why there can be discrepancies in calculating some strings and combos. You've got to accurately put the base damage in.

EDIT: Now that I look closer, the final adjusted damage is wrong. He's adding the bonus damage as if it's stacking up 0.5 at a time. It's not doing that; it's stacking 0.5+1+1.5+2+2.5. I don't know the word for it, but the bonus damage adds on top of itself. Each additional hit adds as much as the last one +.5
Click to expand...
Cool, well he is lurking so I'm sure he'll see this.
 
Zoidberg747

Zoidberg747

My blades will find your heart
TopTierHarley said:
So a friend of mine RaginRaijin made this Google doc of Venomous damage, stacks, etc. Check it out and help add to it so we can have a completely accurate chart.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1PqteB-tDLSg2zinQeV1v0NwJ7ji5W4jfDoLw9l5QEC8/edit?usp=sharing

BTW it looks bad on mobile unless you have the Google docs app or whatever.
Click to expand...
Second Saint said:
Wow, good job RaginRaijin. Well, the only thing I can add is that in the first chart, column D specifically, it starts at 0.5, when it should start at 0. If you make that adjustment, you'll find that it mirrors column M. This is actually a mistake I made initially. It's important to remember that your bonus damage needs to be calculated from total venom hits-1, as the first application does not have a bonus.

Also, the chart doesn't take into account that certain moves have different base ticks. D1 only ticks for 0.1 for a total of 0.5, NJP ticks for 0.5/2.5, and the second hit of f22 ticks for 0.4/2.0. Everything else ticks for 0.3/1.5. This is why there can be discrepancies in calculating some strings and combos. You've got to accurately put the base damage in.

EDIT: Now that I look closer, the final adjusted damage is wrong. He's adding the bonus damage as if it's stacking up 0.5 at a time. It's not doing that; it's stacking 0.5+1+1.5+2+2.5. I don't know the word for it, but the bonus damage adds on top of itself. Each additional hit adds as much as the last one +.5
Click to expand...
Once this is figured out please let me know so I can put it in the venemous guide :)
 
Second Saint

Second Saint

A man with too many names.
Me and RaginRaijin actually worked on it together. I knew him/her from Honebee's stream. The tables are accurate, not all the information and notes are right now, and you can ignore columns O, P, and Q because that is a whole different can of worms and would be very difficult to calculate. The whole thing needs to be cleaned up and polished a bit, but the info is there.
 
TopTierHarley

TopTierHarley

Kytinn King
Second Saint said:
Me and RaginRaijin actually worked on it together. I knew him/her from Honebee's stream. The tables are accurate, not all the information and notes are right now, and you can ignore columns O, P, and Q because that is a whole different can of worms and would be very difficult to calculate. The whole thing needs to be cleaned up and polished a bit, but the info is there.
Click to expand...
Good to hear, thank you both. This will be really helpful
 
Second Saint

Second Saint

A man with too many names.
NoonOnyx said:
I finally got a TYM account I also added how the venom works for D1 in a column
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Glad you're on here. I looked at the d1 column, and you're only counting the first tick, not the entire base venom damage. Where it says .1 it should say .5 for all five ticks.
 
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