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Match-up Discussion Doomsday Matchup Discussion

GGA Saucy Jack

The artist formerly known as ImNewbieSauce
Yeah its pretty similar with the Batman MU once DD gets in. Its really ridiculous. I really dont know what NRS was thinking when they made DD not being immune to parries when traited. That alone would have changed MU's against characters who have parries. If it was intentional then they shouldnt have nerfed DD's trait at all. It was his only way of building momentum in those MU's. SMH...
I hear ya. All parrys really. It's a problem. In those MUs, I just become a max range sweep machine, and try to play even more patient than normal. Meh. There are always work arounds, even if they aren't good options.
 

Metzos

You will BOW to me!
I hear ya. All parrys really. It's a problem. In those MUs, I just become a max range sweep machine, and try to play even more patient than normal. Meh. There are always work arounds, even if they aren't good options.
Same here. D3's and throws. Sometimes i even use MB ES.
 

GGA Saucy Jack

The artist formerly known as ImNewbieSauce
Same here. D3's and throws. Sometimes i even use MB ES.[/quote

You raise an interesting point....I don't want to hijack this thread. Hrm...let me find somewhere better to put this, or ill make a new thread if I can't find one. Hold please...
 

Hellbringer

1 2 3 drink
I really cant believe the DD ares MU is 7-3. It might be 6-4 at max and after the patch its probably even or in ares favor.
 

Metzos

You will BOW to me!
I really cant believe the DD ares MU is 7-3. It might be 6-4 at max and after the patch its probably even or in ares favor.
DD - Ares is 6-4 DD pre patch. After patch we ll see. It would be 7-3 DD, if NRS hadnt buffed his tp wake up. Ares has shitty mobility and DD can fully exploit that.
 

SonicBoomBrad

Best Doomsday in the world
All of these are pre-patch. I'm not changing anything to post patch until the patch comes out and I've tested everything. Doomsday blows up Ares right now. Once I knock you down all I have to do is a point blank nj jump splash and you're forced to block it, you have absolutely no way out. Not to mention my mobility is years ahead of Ares', and my trait blows up all of his options on defense. Your god smack reset doesn't work on me either because I have just nova on wake up once I see it. There is no point in the Doomsday match up where Ares is at an advantage. Which is why I listed it as a 7-3.
 

Qwark28

Joker waiting room
All of these are pre-patch. I'm not changing anything to post patch until the patch comes out and I've tested everything. Doomsday blows up Ares right now. Once I knock you down all I have to do is a point blank nj jump splash and you're forced to block it, you have absolutely no way out. Not to mention my mobility is years ahead of Ares', and my trait blows up all of his options on defense. Your god smack reset doesn't work on me either because I have just nova on wake up once I see it. There is no point in the Doomsday match up where Ares is at an advantage. Which is why I listed it as a 7-3.
I'd like to add that NJ splash is always backdashable if you're reffering to D3/ any untechable knockdown unless in the corner.
 

SonicBoomBrad

Best Doomsday in the world
I'd like to add that NJ splash is always backdashable if you're reffering to D3/ any untechable knockdown unless in the corner.
True but a backdash doesn't put him into an advantageous position, it just moves him toward the corner, which is where I want him. And I can always react to the backdash with a d1. I'm not trying to put down the character or anything. I just know the match up is terrible. After the patch it will probably be a lot better for him. But right now it's ass.
 

Qwark28

Joker waiting room
True but a backdash doesn't put him into an advantageous position, it just moves him toward the corner, which is where I want him. And I can always react to the backdash with a d1. I'm not trying to put down the character or anything. I just know the match up is terrible. After the patch it will probably be a lot better for him. But right now it's ass.
You can't react to a backdash when you're already in motion, which is splashing. Almost every character can react and get away from any kind of NJ splash setup on reaction unfortunately. Everytime I see a DD jump on me as BA I react by dashing under them to escape the corner/witch sides.

I'm not reffering to Ares, I'm talking tool-wise. DD's jump is not good vs chars with fast movement.
 

SonicBoomBrad

Best Doomsday in the world
You can't react to a backdash when you're already in motion, which is splashing. Almost every character can react and get away from any kind of NJ splash setup on reaction unfortunately. Everytime I see a DD jump on me as BA I react by dashing under them to escape the corner/witch sides.

I'm not reffering to Ares, I'm talking tool-wise. DD's jump is not good vs chars with fast movement.
No you're right, I worded it wrong. I mean switch it up and do d1 instead if Ares is backdashing. His backdash is extremely short, and really easy to catch with a d1. Adam is an entirely different story and can disrespect everything Doomsday does on his wake up.
 

Qwark28

Joker waiting room
No you're right, I worded it wrong. I mean switch it up and do d1 instead if Ares is backdashing. His backdash is extremely short, and really easy to catch with a d1. Adam is an entirely different story and can disrespect everything Doomsday does on his wake up.
About your last sentence, I mean jumping in general, jumps with big character last so long that they're very easily reactable, I also tend to do it with Joker by laying down a free set of teeth or backdashing. Generally, a jump that is not guaranteed or almost guaranteed is basically free shit for about every char in the game to abuse.
 

SonicBoomBrad

Best Doomsday in the world
I thought it was 5-5 with Aquaman as well until the ES vs his trait revelation. That may turn out to be huge in the future. Time will tell as that MU evolves. Id say its at worst 6-4 Aquaman, I dont think its a blowup or anything now, but perhaps slight Aquaman advantage.
The trait thing is kind of ass IMO, it's extremely spacing specific. Keep in mind that right after Tom "found" that tech, he got blown up by Noobe at TFC. Aqua's footsies are good, but you have almost the same range as them with your d1, in fact I think it is the same range. So he has a hard time playing footsies with you. If you have trait you can go in pretty hard as long as you're not being dumb about your rushdown. You can actually punish trident rush on block from certain distances too. Other than that, once you knock him down it's a nightmare for him. Specially if he's in the corner. I really don't see Aquaman changing much. If anything with his trait nerf and our buff it could get worse for him.

GL is confusing. I thought it was 6-4 when I started playing it too. But that might just be because the first really good GL I played was DJT. After grinding it out, it's really not that terrible. If you're smart about getting around his projectiles, you can almost always punish them with venom. His footsies are extremely annoying, so you always have to respect them. Which means you don't really want to be in b1 range unless you have to be. But after b13, you can interrupt everything he does with d1, including minigun, and it will beat it out clean as long as you time it right. Once you knock him down, his only wake up is extremely risky and unsafe, not to mention in the corner it's even worse. His mobility is also extremely bad, so once you're in on him it's very hard for him to get you off of him.

I played against Chef at the last WNF and he used both of these characters. So that might help. Here's the archive, I skipped right to the match: http://www.twitch.tv/leveluplive/b/465047145?t=77m32s
 

SonicBoomBrad

Best Doomsday in the world
You cant interrupt b13lift or b1minigun on block. Wtf are you talking about?
You actually can interrupt minigun if he doesn't space the b13 well, you can just input a d1 after his 3 and if he doesn't cancel right away your d1 will come out and beat it, and if he does your d1 won't come out and you'll still be blocking. Or if you're traited you can let the string hit you and punish before the minigun. b13 lift is just retarded and unsafe.

I honestly don't even know why I post on this forum. I don't need help in any of these match ups. I gave you a two paragraph write up on how to beat both the characters you have trouble against and even gave you a video against a player that placed higher than anyone at your local did at Evo. And I get some nit picky post about a certain thing I didn't word properly. You people don't want help, you just want to argue about semantics.
 

Zoidberg747

My blades will find your heart
You can't talk about top 8 at EVO forever, especially when it was within the first 3 months of the games life.

All of these things you are talking about are if the opponent messes up DD can punish. Good players will not screw these things up. B13 minigun is not interruptable if the opponent does it right, and if you do just block it he has the pushback and meter building that he wanted in the first place.
 

SonicBoomBrad

Best Doomsday in the world
You can't talk about top 8 at EVO forever, especially when it was within the first 3 months of the games life.

All of these things you are talking about are if the opponent messes up DD can punish. Good players will not screw these things up. B13 minigun is not interruptable if the opponent does it right, and if you do just block it he has the pushback and meter building that he wanted in the first place.
No I'm pretty sure I can talk about top 8 at Evo, considering that's the only major everyone makes it out to, which means it's the tournament with the most competition and therefore holds the most weight.

Every good player messes something up. In theory, a GL with perfect spacing who doesn't mess things up would never lose. People mess things up all the time. You don't always play 100% perfect. You're going to get pushed out a few times. It's part of the match up. It's something you have to deal with and find ways around. I even said in the write up that you don't want to be in b13 range at all, because you have no options. And then I listed your options if you happen to get caught by one.
 

Zoidberg747

My blades will find your heart
No I'm pretty sure I can talk about top 8 at Evo, considering that's the only major everyone makes it out to, which means it's the tournament with the most competition and therefore holds the most weight.

Every good player messes something up. In theory, a GL with perfect spacing who doesn't mess things up would never lose. People mess things up all the time. You don't always play 100% perfect. You're going to get pushed out a few times. It's part of the match up. It's something you have to deal with and find ways around. I even said in the write up that you don't want to be in b13 range at all, because you have no options. And then I listed your options if you happen to get caught by one.
I should have left out that first part, I respect the WNF guys but it is just so annoying how you all start posts with "and we had more players in top 8 at EVO" as if it actually adds any merit to what you are saying. News flash, KDZ won EVO and he thinks superman zoning is bad... yeah

MU Numbers are made at the highest level. If they are screwing stuff like that up then it is not highest level. Sure they may screw it up once or twice in a set but eventually people wont make those silly mistakes.
 

GGA Saucy Jack

The artist formerly known as ImNewbieSauce
You actually can interrupt minigun if he doesn't space the b13 well, you can just input a d1 after his 3 and if he doesn't cancel right away your d1 will come out and beat it, and if he does your d1 won't come out and you'll still be blocking. Or if you're traited you can let the string hit you and punish before the minigun. b13 lift is just retarded and unsafe.

I honestly don't even know why I post on this forum. I don't need help in any of these match ups. I gave you a two paragraph write up on how to beat both the characters you have trouble against and even gave you a video against a player that placed higher than anyone at your local did at Evo. And I get some nit picky post about a certain thing I didn't word properly. You people don't want help, you just want to argue about semantics.
I dont want to argue semantics. Its not a "semantic" when your matchup advice includes "interrupt something" that you cant. And yes, djt did extremely well at evo, that is why I asked for your advice, but when you said something blatantly false, excuse me for wondering what was going on. Notice at no point in this conversation have I questioned your matchup experience. I respect that it comes from DJT.

And as a side note, since you felt fit to call out my partners in your idiotic response, DJT is 0-2 against "those guys" from my local in tourney. Just sayin.
 

LEGEND

YES!
I should have left out that first part, I respect the WNF guys but it is just so annoying how you all start posts with "and we had more players in top 8 at EVO" as if it actually adds any merit to what you are saying. News flash, KDZ won EVO and he thinks superman zoning is bad... yeah
that a bit of an exaggeration. I've only seen that said a couple of times and i think its only been by Chef and Brad. And its not like its irrelevant to the conversation if someone doesn't know how strong the player's scene is.

We also had the most people win/get out of pools out of any scene btw
 

Zoidberg747

My blades will find your heart
that a bit of an exaggeration. I've only seen that said a couple of times and i think its only been by Chef and Brad. And its not like its irrelevant to the conversation if someone doesn't know how strong the player's scene is.

We also had the most people win/get out of pools out of any scene btw
Lol

"Only chef and brad say that stuff"

"But let me also go right ahead and say that stuff"

It doesnt add anything to the conversation. He was just trying to flaunt his scene and use it to make his opinion seem more valid. You can have the greatest scene in the world, doesnt mean you aren't wrong.
 

LEGEND

YES!
Lol

"Only chef and brad say that stuff"

"But let me also go right ahead and say that stuff"

It doesnt add anything to the conversation. He was just trying to flaunt his scene and use it to make his opinion seem more valid. You can have the greatest scene in the world, doesnt mean you aren't wrong.
i've only seen brad and chef say that to this point (specifically). You also seemed to downplay its significance, so i put another fact on the table

Brad is frustrated with how bad people are at fighting Doomsday/ how bad all other Doomsdays are + him posting solid information only to be nitpicked on things the reader doesn't understand. The line about chef placing better than all of GGA could have been left out, but lets not gets uptight about something thats true. Then you instigated the repeat of Brad talking about our scenes strength
 

Zoidberg747

My blades will find your heart
i've only seen brad and chef say that to this point (specifically). You also seemed to downplay its significance, so i put another fact on the table

Brad is frustrated with how bad people are at fighting Doomsday/ how bad all other Doomsdays are + him posting solid information only to be nitpicked on things the reader doesn't understand. The line about chef placing better than all of GGA could have been left out, but lets not gets uptight about something thats true. Then you instigated the repeat of Brad talking about our scenes strength
Im not downplaying its significance. Im saying it has no place in this discussion.

Lol at no one knowing how to fight doomsday and all doomsdays being terrible. I am done being nice, get the fuck over yourselves please.