-She's never going to be able to d1 in between pressure if you actually know how to pressure with DD properly. You d1 will always beat hers out after venom or jump splash.
-If she forward dashes you can react with d1 ES to punish, if she backdashes you can forward dash and PUNISH with 123 mb venom or even d1 ES.
-D2 doesn't even matter if you know when to jump and have decent fundamentals, which are pretty much required to place well with this character at a high level anyway.
-MB f3 is good, but as I said is completely reactable offline if you're expecting it.
-I already went over parry. Raw ES.
Realistically, if she touches you, she gets like a 30% combo into a 50/50. If you guess right you get to completely reverse pressure. Grundy touches you and gets 65% or a reset into a 50/50 for 70% if he feels like it. And yet no one has questioned why I call that a 5-5.
When you're playing Doomsday risk reward is almost NEVER in your favor. Which is why you need such good fundamentals and knowledge of frame data to play this character. Match up knowledge is key. The only thing that is a problem in this match up is her zoning. Trait bodies her. Venom bodies her after the patch. If you get her in the corner, she loses unless she can block ES. Not to mention you'll have the option to mb b3 her vortex for big damage after to patch too. Batman is not a 7-3 because of his rushdown or parry. Batman is a 7-3 because of his trait, 2 hit projectile, and b23. Wonder Woman is not a 6-4 because of her parry. She's a 6-4 because of her mobility, damage output off of any hit, and incredible wake up game.
Again, not saying it's not a 6-4, it definitely could be. Just pointing things out. I honestly think she's extremely overrated.
There will probably be a lot of text tone fail in this message, so I want to start this by saying I am not attempting to be a TYM hero and put you down or any of that bullshit. I am enjoying this actual conversation, but I disagree with some of your statements so strongly, that I'm afraid this is going to come out as me talking down to you. That isn't the tone I'm using. Now that I have that out of the way...
Contrary to popular belief, Doomsday is not always at advantage. Killer Frost, and any other character for that matter, will have chances to d1 out of pressure. Your implication in the first statement was that Doomsdays pressure only comes from Venom and Bodysplash. Nothing could be further from the case. Especially against Killer Frost. She can parry Venom, even if its MB, even if you have trait up. Venom is not free against her at all.
I don't know what you are talking about her forward dashing for. And for the record, if you are punishing forward dashes with d1xxES, you are leaving hella damage on the table. If you are reading forward dash, you can blow that up for way more than just d1xxES. But I really don't know what situation you are referring to where she is forward dashing.
Her D2 does matter. Its not just an anti air. Its a 10 frame (im almost positive its 10) mid hitting launcher that is safe (only -6 I believe) that comes from a crouch position to blow up highs. And like everything else, if she launches you with it, who cares that the combo is scaled, you are now a resident of 50-50 city. Her D2 out of pressure is a great tool for her. Not just as an anti-air.
We disagree on F3. I do not believe you (or anyone) is consistently reacting to this. Ever. I just flat out don't believe that. If that was the case, then Killer Frosts 50/50 would be garbage, because that would mean no one would ever get hit after a MB grab. Block low for slide, react to overhead, and you're golden. Never get hit. I think the notion that it is so easily blocked on reaction is BS.
The problem with her parry isnt what to do when she whiffs one. The problem with parry is that it is one frame. If Killer Frost is scouting D1, or scouting Venom, or scouting any grounded attack that isn't sweep or throw, you are at risk to get parried. Technically, she can parry in between MB venom and D1 if she is on point and reads that is what you are going to do. Your blanket answer of just raw ES does nothing. You can't win the entire match but just firing out raw ES all the time. That point is silly.
You also made a point that she is fucked in the corner unless your opponent can block ES. I dont play ANYONE that cant block ES. So that isn't even a talking point for me. In the same argument where you talk about "high levels of play" there is no "if they can block ES". So that point...is also bull.
And as for killer frost getting out of the corner, its really not that hard. You only keep her in the corner with MB b3/f3 on her wake up, or jump back body splash to blow up slide. Well if you do jump back body splash...then she just stands the fuck up for free. You cant pressure her, or jump neutral at her, because slide gets her out. Her wake up game in the corner is fine. Also...if she reads you are going to do MB b3/f3, there is that pesky parry again, blowing you the fuck up and taking Doomy BACK to 50-50 city.
You are correct in your statement that "Match up knowledge is key." You play PR rog occasionally online. I play 16 bit offline three times a week. Which sounds like more complete matchup knowledge to you?
My final point is that you are so adamant about this MU, and are telling all of us about how it works "at a high level" and then immediately follow up with "but i don't know the MU that well, I only play it online occasionally". The frost players and Doomsday players, have all come in here and told you how bad it is, but you are determined to disagree. I respect you sticking by your opinions, I just hope it doesnt get you lit up in a tourney some day. Trust me...I really wish i agreed with your points, because I hate this broad and have looked for 10,000 ways to get around her BS. It just looks like it isnt even. Its her advantage.
