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Cassie Cage General Discussion Thread

exactly .... SonicFox won CEO 2019 using her, cause he is an extraordinary skilled player, with superior "reading ability" over any other competitor there, even more when he was coming back from losers brackets ... It's totally his merit mixed with his incredible personal skill level, plus you can add to that the fact for him for being cool under pressure and winning all that stuff yesterday, hehe

he used Cassie with such agressive approach that nobody could stand his constant pressure with this character .... but overall, Cassie is not a broken character, that make the game "unplayable" at high level .... far from this, indeed.
Please do not spoiler Top8 lol.

Sonic probably could have won with other char too but he always like playing and winning other than the mainstream char.
I am sure people were more ready against Jaqui/Erron/Geras than Cassie.

But top tier is top tier. Nerf is up to NRS if he wants tier shifting or just do balance.
NRS likes tier shifting too just to make things spicy.
 
I just finished watching Dragon vs Sonicfox semi final match.
It was pretty a "no need for Yaas Queen nerf" match.
Sonic did well but it was not enough. He could not even abuse F4... he just walked back to hope for whiffing anything. :D
It looked like a bad match up for Cassie like in paper...

So far both 1st 2 matches were good.
Mr. Aquaman did everything to make it more hype. :D

Will continue watching it and hoping for Sonic win lol.

Kombat vs Sonic: Buff Geras pls.
 
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JDE

Pick up & kill it & kill it & kill it!
I've actually haven' gotten any backlash for playing Cassie like I did with Supergirl. But I'm saying it before it starts. As long as people keep the heat towards how to deal with the character but willing to listen afterwards, then I'll entertain it because I want ppl to learn. If all you're going to do is complaining about her, then I'm going to keep scrolling. However, if anyone starts sending me personal messages that has nothing to do with my family especially my nieces, then I'm going to block you. No questions asked.
 
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SubZeroIce

Runway
So you're just flat-out admitting that you have a bias against Cassie. At least you're being honest about it. Also explains why you want all of those changes to Cassie that would absolutely destroy her. There's wanting some nerfs to a character, and then there's levels that put Cherny to shame.
Yeah I hate Cassie. You should've read the rest of my post where I said I have 0 credentials and that only implementing 2-3 of those would suffice. Stay mad though, your main is getting nerfed.

Yea them being highs changes everything, you can duck and punish them. That’s fighting game 101. May I internest you in a beginner video? It may help you.

Since the best player in the world won a tournament with her, it’s obvious she needs to get nerfed! I’m glad NRS doesn’t have that mentality. What about when he destroyed people with D’vorah? She needs nerfs then? Kotal beat Erron black (hayatei), Kotal needs nerfs too?

You’re mad that your 50/50 bs and D1 slide isn’t getting you easy wins. And you’re mad Cassie’s a good character you can’t even bother to lab. Knowing the MU can decide if you get a W or a L, you clearly don’t. So just go and hit the lab with her and use your salt for something productive.
There you go again with the pretentious crap. Girl you're the same person who didn't know you can use amp glow kick to escape the corner 2 months in. Now let's laugh about that. Perhaps you should lab your character more since you also boldly claimed her Fatal Blow is difficult to combo into. The jokes write themselves.

The best player in the world won a tournament with Yass Queen variation but there's thousands of Cassie's roaming these online streets using Digital soldier; Second only to Scorpion or maybe Liu. I wonder why.

Not asking for easy wins because Sub-Zero actually does fairly well against Cassie. Asking for a nerf on the 2nd or 3rd best character in the game isn't too much to ask. Speaking of the lab, did you know you can make nearly all of Cassie's strings safe by using amp glow kick?
 

SubZeroIce

Runway
Means only that Sonic is an amazing player and as it was proven already he can make even Dvorah work. Also Dragon beat him earlier 3:0 in the same MU. Only means both are amazing players and would probably beat as all here with Kotal Kahn. ;)
I'm sure that's how he was able to beat Dragon who is significantly better. Has nothing to do with Tiers. How many 11 stun 11 glow kicks did you see (0 meter 25%). The stun costs no bar too.

This character has so many positives it's hard to keep track. 0 bad match-ups and you mean to tell me all she needs is a little adjustment on the gun? A joke.

 

SubZeroIce

Runway
@SubZeroIce Honest question, why come into this thread where you know you'll be talking to Cassie fans? It kind of feels like you're being argumentative for the sake of it.
This is a general discussion, and I am calling for nerfs for said character. It's well within topic. Only people off topic are the others who randomly brought up Sub-Zero for no apparent reason on the basis of me having a SZ avatar.

I'm being argumentative for the sake of suggesting nerfs for an unbalanced character that's top 2 in this game.
 

lionheart21

Its Game Over, Man
This is a general discussion, and I am calling for nerfs for said character. It's well within topic. Only people off topic are the others who randomly brought up Sub-Zero for no apparent reason on the basis of me having a SZ avatar.

I'm being argumentative for the sake of suggesting nerfs for an unbalanced character that's top 2 in this game.
Well, that and we can also check your previous posts, including one where you state that you main Thin Ice Sub-Zero.

Also, referring to a mod, the leader of the Cassie community and one of the more respected and well-liked members of the boards as "pretentious" and "girl"...yeah, let's see how that one goes for you.

For us, Cassie is who we're sticking with. For many of those people using Cassie because Sonic said she's got no bad matchups, Cassie is the flavor of the month and they'd flee in terror at the mere mention of a nerf.
 

SubZeroIce

Runway
Well, that and we can also check your previous posts, including one where you state that you main Thin Ice Sub-Zero.

Also, referring to a mod, the leader of the Cassie community and one of the more respected and well-liked members of the boards as "pretentious" and "girl"...yeah, let's see how that one goes for you.

For us, Cassie is who we're sticking with. For many of those people using Cassie because Sonic said she's got no bad matchups, Cassie is the flavor of the month and they'd flee in terror at the mere mention of a nerf.
I'm glad you went through my post history, but you misinterpreted my message: it's off topic to bring up Sub-Zero, and the only reason he's brought up is because I have a SZ avi.

Only called one person pretentious and that was the person who made pretentious remarks.

And I hope you do stick around despite the nerfs she's gonna receive to be brought down to Earth.
 

Goatlegs

Noob
The “it’s not the character, it’s Sonicfox” argument is gonna plague NRS games until the end of time. This isn’t a knock at Sonicfox who is easily one of the best fg players of all time and can truly make any character look great, but it’s such a ridiculous statement that gives unfairly powerful characters a free pass to stay unfairly powerful. He’s literally showcasing what a character is capable of at the highest level and certain people are writing it off as if it was a fluke. Have certain characters in the past been unfairly nerfed because of Sonicfox’s performances? Honestly, probably. But to say Cassie should not be toned down for the betterment of the game is crazy.

As a Cassie player, although not a top player so take this with a grain of salt, this is probably where I would start with normalizing her:
  1. Amp Glow Kick has reduced push back. In it's current state it's only -3, sometimes -2, and pushes the opponents back to a distance where f2/b2 are still a threat. Basically, it's never truly the opponents turn. Reducing push back would ensure the opponent has the next move, whether Cassie chooses to respect it or not is a different story.
  2. f4 is -2. Yeah yeah yeah I know "BuT tHiS wOnT cHaNgE aNyThInG." It will still give normals such as Baraka's f4 or Jade's b2 a better chance to contest against a potential b2 or another f4 attempt. A light nerf for a dominant tool that she needs.
  3. Reduce the vertical hitbox on B3 slightly. Only slightly, it shouldn't be beating out the best jump kicks in the game.
  4. Reduced damage on f2,1+3 Krushing Blow. There's a few things I could think of that could be done to this normal, but I think this would be a good start. 24-26% for such a dominant footsie tool on kounter is a bit much imo. 18-20% seems more appropriate. At 9-10% regularly, this is still double it's normal damage.
I believe these changes would be a safe start at normalizing her that would not change her base game plan very much if even at all. I don't believe in heavy nerfs right out the gate if it's not obviously necessary. If more drastic adjustments needed to be made in the future then so be it. But hey, I'm just some guy on tym so what do I know?
 

lionheart21

Its Game Over, Man
The “it’s not the character, it’s Sonicfox” argument is gonna plague NRS games until the end of time. This isn’t a knock at Sonicfox who is easily one of the best fg players of all time and can truly make any character look great, but it’s such a ridiculous statement that gives unfairly powerful characters a free pass to stay unfairly powerful. He’s literally showcasing what a character is capable of at the highest level and certain people are writing it off as if it was a fluke. Have certain characters in the past been unfairly nerfed because of Sonicfox’s performances? Honestly, probably. But to say Cassie should not be toned down for the betterment of the game is crazy.

As a Cassie player, although not a top player so take this with a grain of salt, this is probably where I would start with normalizing her:
  1. Amp Glow Kick has reduced push back. In it's current state it's only -3, sometimes -2, and pushes the opponents back to a distance where f2/b2 are still a threat. Basically, it's never truly the opponents turn. Reducing push back would ensure the opponent has the next move, whether Cassie chooses to respect it or not is a different story.
  2. f4 is -2. Yeah yeah yeah I know "BuT tHiS wOnT cHaNgE aNyThInG." It will still give normals such as Baraka's f4 or Jade's b2 a better chance to contest against a potential b2 or another f4 attempt. A light nerf for a dominant tool that she needs.
  3. Reduce the vertical hitbox on B3 slightly. Only slightly, it shouldn't be beating out the best jump kicks in the game.
  4. Reduced damage on f2,1+3 Krushing Blow. There's a few things I could think of that could be done to this normal, but I think this would be a good start. 24-26% for such a dominant footsie tool on kounter is a bit much imo. 18-20% seems more appropriate. At 9-10% regularly, this is still double it's normal damage.
I believe these changes would be a safe start at normalizing her that would not change her base game plan very much if even at all. I don't believe in heavy nerfs right out the gate if it's not obviously necessary. If more drastic adjustments needed to be made in the future then so be it. But hey, I'm just some guy on tym so what do I know?
Alright, now those are more like things that Cassie can work around and yet not feel as oppressive to others.
 

lionheart21

Its Game Over, Man
I'm glad you went through my post history, but you misinterpreted my message: it's off topic to bring up Sub-Zero, and the only reason he's brought up is because I have a SZ avi.

Only called one person pretentious and that was the person who made pretentious remarks.

And I hope you do stick around despite the nerfs she's gonna receive to be brought down to Earth.
That one person was all three of those things that I mentioned.
 

Vengeance135

Saltiest Joker Player
The “it’s not the character, it’s Sonicfox” argument is gonna plague NRS games until the end of time. This isn’t a knock at Sonicfox who is easily one of the best fg players of all time and can truly make any character look great, but it’s such a ridiculous statement that gives unfairly powerful characters a free pass to stay unfairly powerful. He’s literally showcasing what a character is capable of at the highest level and certain people are writing it off as if it was a fluke. Have certain characters in the past been unfairly nerfed because of Sonicfox’s performances? Honestly, probably. But to say Cassie should not be toned down for the betterment of the game is crazy.

As a Cassie player, although not a top player so take this with a grain of salt, this is probably where I would start with normalizing her:
  1. Amp Glow Kick has reduced push back. In it's current state it's only -3, sometimes -2, and pushes the opponents back to a distance where f2/b2 are still a threat. Basically, it's never truly the opponents turn. Reducing push back would ensure the opponent has the next move, whether Cassie chooses to respect it or not is a different story.
  2. f4 is -2. Yeah yeah yeah I know "BuT tHiS wOnT cHaNgE aNyThInG." It will still give normals such as Baraka's f4 or Jade's b2 a better chance to contest against a potential b2 or another f4 attempt. A light nerf for a dominant tool that she needs.
  3. Reduce the vertical hitbox on B3 slightly. Only slightly, it shouldn't be beating out the best jump kicks in the game.
  4. Reduced damage on f2,1+3 Krushing Blow. There's a few things I could think of that could be done to this normal, but I think this would be a good start. 24-26% for such a dominant footsie tool on kounter is a bit much imo. 18-20% seems more appropriate. At 9-10% regularly, this is still double it's normal damage.
I believe these changes would be a safe start at normalizing her that would not change her base game plan very much if even at all. I don't believe in heavy nerfs right out the gate if it's not obviously necessary. If more drastic adjustments needed to be made in the future then so be it. But hey, I'm just some guy on tym so what do I know?
First, I appreciate the maturity coming from you my friend. Discussion is everything and opinions should be respected rather you agree with them or not. As for your suggestions. They actually aren't bad ones.

Reo recently did a video as to what he thinks would make Cassie a bit more fair and the suggestions I remember were making her amped glowkick a little less safe and reducing the chip damage on kneecappin. it's really hard to say nerf her f2, 1+3 move since it's her only real threatening Krushing blow so I can't really agree with that.

Heres a quick breakdown of her Krushing Blow requirements:

F2, 1+3: as you know is a fast 10F high starter that, if it connects as a counter hit, can follow up with a 1+3 for a Krushing blow. 1+3 is plus on block but with a lot of pushback, basically just resetting neutral.

D2 Uppercut: (This one is Universal)

B1,3 (opponent must be blocking high)
Now B1,3 is full combo punishable on block so to go for this krushing blow is super risky, hence why you don't see it used often in high level play.

Charged pistol shot- quite possibly the most LEAST used Krushing blow due to how hard it is to actually connect. You have to hold the charge all the way through and hit someone with it. That's kind of hard since it's a high. At this point, if you get hit with this Krushing blow, you deserve to the damage taken.

Now her F4 being -2 on block is quite interesting. I disagree with this because it's not really eliminating the threat. The threat behind F4 is the fact that its a 9F mid. Making it -2 just means that we will go for the overhead more often and then people will complain that she has a 9F Mid that goes into a safe overhead. Just make F4 10F and keep it Neutral on block so a huge portion of the cast can contest it and call it a day. Neutral on block opens up the mind games for both people.

People say Cassie is "too safe" but in all actuality, shes really too linear and because of her linearity, she has to compensate somehow.

She has 3 moves plus on block that come to mind.

Standing 4 (which is a high)

F2 1+3 (which has a lot of pushback)

F343 (which has a HUGE gap in between 4 and 3) and even has a huge push back if you block the 3 ender.

This Character is otherwise safe but still negative and can easily be telegraphed, especially when she has to take the offensive.

I'm not downplaying in the slightest either. She is easily one of the best characters in the game hands down.

But she is also one of the fairest in the give and take department. You can't just pick her up and autopilot her like you can with characters like Sonya Erron and Geras.

If you want, you and I can lab together. I can show my explanation better then I can type it
Sometimes labbing with a Character specialist can be really eye opening as to the options you have that you didn't know you had.
 

Vengeance135

Saltiest Joker Player
I'm glad you went through my post history, but you misinterpreted my message: it's off topic to bring up Sub-Zero, and the only reason he's brought up is because I have a SZ avi.

Only called one person pretentious and that was the person who made pretentious remarks.

And I hope you do stick around despite the nerfs she's gonna receive to be brought down to Earth.

Are you on PSN? If so, I think you and I should play.

Also, I understand that you are salty but dude you need to chill out. We all get salty sometimes but at the end of the day it's just a game and you really are taking it to the next level on some of the nicest people the community has to offer.
 

RoninLoganX

The Masterless Sword
As far as I'm concerned, people have the right to their opinions, even if I don't agree with them. (I've always been a Don't Nerf, Buff the Lower Tiers school of thought) What doesn't sit well with me was the insulting tone in which Vslayer was responded to. This is a game we all love and have fun with, no reason to take it so seriously that you toss common decency out the window.
 

Vengeance135

Saltiest Joker Player
As far as I'm concerned, people have the right to their opinions, even if I don't agree with them. (I've always been a Don't Nerf, Buff the Lower Tiers school of thought) What doesn't sit well with me was the insulting tone in which Vslayer was responded to. This is a game we all love and have fun with, no reason to take it so seriously that you toss common decency out the window.
Facts. Like how can you even be mean to Vslayer... she's mad nice and stays hella positive, while always bringing good vibes.
 

Blewdew

PSN: MaxKayX3
The “it’s not the character, it’s Sonicfox” argument is gonna plague NRS games until the end of time. This isn’t a knock at Sonicfox who is easily one of the best fg players of all time and can truly make any character look great, but it’s such a ridiculous statement that gives unfairly powerful characters a free pass to stay unfairly powerful. He’s literally showcasing what a character is capable of at the highest level and certain people are writing it off as if it was a fluke. Have certain characters in the past been unfairly nerfed because of Sonicfox’s performances? Honestly, probably. But to say Cassie should not be toned down for the betterment of the game is crazy.

As a Cassie player, although not a top player so take this with a grain of salt, this is probably where I would start with normalizing her:
  1. Amp Glow Kick has reduced push back. In it's current state it's only -3, sometimes -2, and pushes the opponents back to a distance where f2/b2 are still a threat. Basically, it's never truly the opponents turn. Reducing push back would ensure the opponent has the next move, whether Cassie chooses to respect it or not is a different story.
  2. f4 is -2. Yeah yeah yeah I know "BuT tHiS wOnT cHaNgE aNyThInG." It will still give normals such as Baraka's f4 or Jade's b2 a better chance to contest against a potential b2 or another f4 attempt. A light nerf for a dominant tool that she needs.
  3. Reduce the vertical hitbox on B3 slightly. Only slightly, it shouldn't be beating out the best jump kicks in the game.
  4. Reduced damage on f2,1+3 Krushing Blow. There's a few things I could think of that could be done to this normal, but I think this would be a good start. 24-26% for such a dominant footsie tool on kounter is a bit much imo. 18-20% seems more appropriate. At 9-10% regularly, this is still double it's normal damage.
I believe these changes would be a safe start at normalizing her that would not change her base game plan very much if even at all. I don't believe in heavy nerfs right out the gate if it's not obviously necessary. If more drastic adjustments needed to be made in the future then so be it. But hey, I'm just some guy on tym so what do I know?
These changes are definitely reasonable and would still leave her as a good character. Though I don‘t completely agree with 1 and 3.
Imo amp glow kick should be left how it currently is framewise but add a flawless block gap between the normal and amp version
I don‘t think b3 should be adjusted but her low guns. They‘re way too powerful for a mid projectile that low profiles everything. Cassie should be a strong neutral character so imo it‘s fine having a great anti air but not on combination with low guns.
 
The “it’s not the character, it’s Sonicfox” argument is gonna plague NRS games until the end of time. This isn’t a knock at Sonicfox who is easily one of the best fg players of all time and can truly make any character look great, but it’s such a ridiculous statement that gives unfairly powerful characters a free pass to stay unfairly powerful. He’s literally showcasing what a character is capable of at the highest level and certain people are writing it off as if it was a fluke. Have certain characters in the past been unfairly nerfed because of Sonicfox’s performances? Honestly, probably. But to say Cassie should not be toned down for the betterment of the game is crazy.

As a Cassie player, although not a top player so take this with a grain of salt, this is probably where I would start with normalizing her:
  1. Amp Glow Kick has reduced push back. In it's current state it's only -3, sometimes -2, and pushes the opponents back to a distance where f2/b2 are still a threat. Basically, it's never truly the opponents turn. Reducing push back would ensure the opponent has the next move, whether Cassie chooses to respect it or not is a different story.
  2. f4 is -2. Yeah yeah yeah I know "BuT tHiS wOnT cHaNgE aNyThInG." It will still give normals such as Baraka's f4 or Jade's b2 a better chance to contest against a potential b2 or another f4 attempt. A light nerf for a dominant tool that she needs.
  3. Reduce the vertical hitbox on B3 slightly. Only slightly, it shouldn't be beating out the best jump kicks in the game.
  4. Reduced damage on f2,1+3 Krushing Blow. There's a few things I could think of that could be done to this normal, but I think this would be a good start. 24-26% for such a dominant footsie tool on kounter is a bit much imo. 18-20% seems more appropriate. At 9-10% regularly, this is still double it's normal damage.
I believe these changes would be a safe start at normalizing her that would not change her base game plan very much if even at all. I don't believe in heavy nerfs right out the gate if it's not obviously necessary. If more drastic adjustments needed to be made in the future then so be it. But hey, I'm just some guy on tym so what do I know?
Maybe the amp glow kick is situational but against Jacqui I always find myself at her F3 (9F mid) range so it does nothing good to me.
Sometimes it has better pushback.

I did not lab it though just noticed.
 
I just watched Sonicfox vs. Ninjakilla and I noticed that Sonicfox went almost always for the more damage / oki game instead of the restand.
I am wondering why... Maybe he was more comfortable with the oki game as restand is so linear? :)

Even with Yaah Queen against Cetrion he rather did glow kick. I guess to stay closer with oki than far away with +1.

I have not played Cassie for 5 days it is time to go back to her (last 3 days off playing just watching, previous 2 days Scorpion).
I will practice that DB1 AMP into S4, 111xxBF4... I tried it before but it was pretty strict to me. :D
 
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Immortal

Blind justice....
I'm sure that's how he was able to beat Dragon who is significantly better. Has nothing to do with Tiers. How many 11 stun 11 glow kicks did you see (0 meter 25%). The stun costs no bar too.

This character has so many positives it's hard to keep track. 0 bad match-ups and you mean to tell me all she needs is a little adjustment on the gun? A joke.

1. Dragon is significantly better then Sonic? In what reality? Neither MK X nor MK 11 results support you theory. Yeah... keep telling that to yourself to justife your poor arguments.

2. You hate Cassie so no way in hell you're objective which is obvious.

3. You have no idea if or how NRS will nerf her, so stop saying that like its "for sure".

4. So just stop and go back to your Sub-Zero forums to downplay him more. Im gonna laugh hard if they nerf him. Coz you know, that's possible.
 

Vslayer

Juiced Moose On The Loose
Lead Moderator
Yeah I hate Cassie. You should've read the rest of my post where I said I have 0 credentials and that only implementing 2-3 of those would suffice. Stay mad though, your main is getting nerfed.



There you go again with the pretentious crap. Girl you're the same person who didn't know you can use amp glow kick to escape the corner 2 months in. Now let's laugh about that. Perhaps you should lab your character more since you also boldly claimed her Fatal Blow is difficult to combo into. The jokes write themselves.

The best player in the world won a tournament with Yass Queen variation but there's thousands of Cassie's roaming these online streets using Digital soldier; Second only to Scorpion or maybe Liu. I wonder why.

Not asking for easy wins because Sub-Zero actually does fairly well against Cassie. Asking for a nerf on the 2nd or 3rd best character in the game isn't too much to ask. Speaking of the lab, did you know you can make nearly all of Cassie's strings safe by using amp glow kick?
I learn every day with her, you can laugh if you want I really don't give a shit and I don't see how it's pertinent to this conversation other than you needing to be a dick, but it's fine, I'm a dick too.

You can't combo her FB in Digital Soldier other than a simple string, Yaas Queen has more potential since you can stun but I was referring to DS since that's the only one I played - that's my bad I guess.

Yeah, and did you know that if you back up after you block it you can whiff punish her cause it 0 on block? And that it costs 1 bar? And that even if she pressures a whole lot she can't make every single string safe because she needs to spend a resource? :eek:

Look around, there are a thousand Subs for a reason, I see them as much as Scorpions in ranked. The amount of Cassie's increased 10x cause people are tier hores, but they also have been constantly playing Sub and Scorp because they're pretty high up there.

And again, lab the MU, instead of just complaining about all that she does well. Dead of Winter is a bad MU for her, try that out. Because you say she's an easy MU for him yet you're in here complaining which is telling me one thing: you're getting bodied by her and even if you 'know' all these things about her, you don't put them in practice. I'm gonna give you one guess as to who's at fault here and it's not the characters in the game.

See you in the patch notes, Scrub zero ;)
 
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I solved the pointless "discussion" issue with the hard way lol.
Soft way is the scrolling... ;)

Inependant stuggle tower! More Cassie skin. ;)
Btw I really love my basic blue skin I think she is perfect that way. :)
 
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STB Sgt Reed

Online Warrior
Don't you have to enhance the drone stun to actually be able to combo with it?

Look around, there are a thousand Subs for a reason, I see them as much as Scorpions in ranked.
To be fair, that's because Sub Zero is the most popular MK character.

People will lie and say it's Scorpion, but they're only fooling themselves. :p
 

Vslayer

Juiced Moose On The Loose
Lead Moderator
Don't you have to enhance the drone stun to actually be able to combo with it?



To be fair, that's because Sub Zero is the most popular MK character.

People will lie and say it's Scorpion, but they're only fooling themselves. :p
Yep, she needs to spend a bar.

That's true, but he's also a very solid character. Ice solid :p