Cassie Cage General Discussion Thread

[marukhati]

Cassie does need adjustments, but roughly 98% of the people saying she does could not intelligently articulate why she does, or which moves need to be adjusted if you held a gun to their head. Half the other 2% just parrots arguments they've heard pros make. (Her Fatal Blow being an overhead - I mean, holy shit, dude). 'Course, if what I saw on stream at CEO is anything to go by, roughly 98% of the people who picked up a pocket Cassie after SonicFox correctly noted she's good don't actually know how to play her. They heard "strongest character in the game" and thought it meant something like pre-patch Tanya in MKX instead of what Cassie is.

As a fellow scrub, I feel your pain.

 

[B. Shazzy]

Gonna be tough to downplay now guise lul

 

[marukhati]

-Her staggers need to be nerfed hardcore. Having some of the safest mids and overheads is unnecessary.
-Her low gunshot needs more recovery
-Her air gunshot (the best aerial projectile in the game) needs more recovery, one bullet and a smaller gap between the air and the ground.
-Overall frame re-evaluation (I'm not a specialist on this but several of her strings need to be re-thought of)
-Less pushback on B243, F2,1+3, the FB, standing gunshot, etc. She doesn't need to gain 3 inches everytime she does a string.

These are all suggestions. I have no credentials, this is just my opinion. Even if they implemented half of these, Cassie would still be top 10. That's how ridiculous this character is. Her, Sonya & Erron were all given every single tool whereas every other character has very obvious weaknesses.

And low damage potential in the corner is NOT an Achilles heel.

Every one of these ideas is sensible on its own. Doing two or three out of five of them, in conjunction with buffs coming to low tiers, seems like a not-bad plan. I'm curious as to what, exactly, you think Cassie would be good at if they did literally all of those things, though. You've just described every tool she has.

 

[TeamCage]

I think the suggestions around nerfing ex glow kick (either by making it more negative or with a fb gap) and touching low gun slightly (frames or chip) are the most sensible. Perhaps changing nutkick to a universal +2 even in the air so f4 isn't a guaranteed check.

Before that, though. Fix the hitboxes. Some matches like the Johnny, Noob and Geras ones will change materially as a result. If Cassie is still overly oppressive, then consider adjustments. Nerfing her universal tools without compensating for them will make YQ and future variations more marginalised. And more importantly, she'll be less of a complete character.

 

[lionheart21]

Gonna be tough to downplay now guise lul

Who in the Cassie community is even downplaying her? We know she's one of the best, we're saying that she's not a godlike character with zero bad match-ups, despite what Sonic says. You shut down her zoning, you've shut down a key aspect of her game plan. Characters like Sonya, Scorpion, Erron, Jade and Infinite Warden Geras can do these things.

Also, if the whole argument there is because Cassie won at CEO, that was Cassie in the hands of SonicFox, a man who was able to make D'Vorah in her current form look credible.

 

[Hor_PeT]

I think we should officially open a Cassie nerf/complain thread.
Nerf SonicCage.

I was sleeping during CEO Top8 so I will watch it in the evening (EU). Damn it will be no surprise... I was cheering for Sonic and Cassie though Geras/Jaqui/Sonya/Liu/Erron were too boring to watch I skipped most of the matches.
Even other's Cassie was boring lol. But not in Sonic's hands.

 

[Deleted member 35141]

After watching she needs some adjustments but they really need to strengthen the bottom half of the roster.

Having a bunch of strong character's would stregthen the hype for the entire tournament.

This is not coming from a cassie main, but from a low tier main and huge mk spectator fan.

 

[snort]

Yeah, and to make those strings safe, you need meter, which is something that Cassie needs to rely on in order to do any real damage. Any decent Cassie will always have at least one bar of offensive meter on them at all times. Try playing Cassie without meter and then get back to us on how OP she is. Or, just look at the video that

Who cares if she requires meter, the meter system in this game is consistently providing you with meter. To say "try playing her without meter" is a beyond stupid statement.

 

[EMPRESS_SunFire]

I don’t even think she is that stupid. She is an amazing character, maybe even top 1 but honestly I rather deal with top tier Cassie than Erron or Sonya ANYTIME. At least I feel like I can outplay Cassie so I wouldn’t mind her being the absolute best after a patch, but I might be biased because I enjoy playing against characters like her.
Her low shot might need a slight nerf and maybe make amplified glow kick -7 with less pushback so it stays safe but she has to hold pressure after, my only complain right now is how she has so many options after amp glow kick on block when I’m supposed to take my turn after that

 

[Nerobianco]

If anything, make ex glow kick slightly negative and a bit less chip.
Sonic was just doing 111/grab variations into glow kick/full fombo.

That is the only thing I would change about her. It was just that one option.

What else is there to change? She rewards good footsies and that what Sonic is just great at.


They might do something like giving 111 a gap on the last hit or just slightly adjust the frames on ex glow kick.

 

[SubZeroIce]

-what’s wrong with good staggers? F4 is dirty but even if they make it -2 it won’t change much. F41 is -7 on block so you can poke her out of her turn or grab her.
-low gunshot is already punishable on block if she’s close and so is the amp version
-air gunshot is fine
-maybe they can make more stuff unsafe on block
-why do they need less pushback when F2 is a high and can be ducked and punished and the 3 in b243 is also a high and can be ducked and punished?

All she needs is a bit of frame data adjustment. But let’s be real Erron and Sonya need it more. Once they buff low tiers everything will sort of fall into place and if they nerf too much then we’ll just get new too tiers and go through this bs all over again.

It’s not because a character is being used a lot that they need to be nerfed to hell and back. As I said Sonic is hyping her up. And if you knew all the Sub zeros I get in ranked, then that should also be indicative of who needs toning down. Sub’s getting adjustments too, don’t kid yourself.

-There's not a problem with good staggers, it's just that they're TOO good. I also hate her.
-Lmao, "If you're close" how about she trades like everyone else on that stupid ass move
-Glad you agree
-Whether they're high or not makes no difference.

I agree, I think Sonya & Erron are the best in the game and I absolutely abhor them as well, but there's room to nerf them all

It's not even Sonic hyping her up because I been anti-Cassie for a while now. There's more to just "knowing" the matchup when you have a chrarcter like Cassie.

And @Immortal, Seeing as Sonic was able to beat Dragon in CEO with Yass Queen, I think she needs a little bit more than just a low gun shot adjustment

 

[SubZeroIce]

After watching she needs some adjustments but they really need to strengthen the bottom half of the roster.

Having a bunch of strong character's would stregthen the hype for the entire tournament.

This is not coming from a cassie main, but from a low tier main and huge mk spectator fan.

They tried that with MKX and it was a disaster. Slightly boost the bottom tier and then nerf the top tier, that's how it should be.

Cassie ain't going out the top 5 though, that's the lowest she can go cause her tools are that good.

 

[Immortal]

And @Immortal, Seeing as Sonic was able to beat Dragon in CEO with Yass Queen, I think she needs a little bit more than just a low gun shot adjustment

Means only that Sonic is an amazing player and as it was proven already he can make even Dvorah work. Also Dragon beat him earlier 3:0 in the same MU. Only means both are amazing players and would probably beat as all here with Kotal Kahn.

 

[Vslayer]

-There's not a problem with good staggers, it's just that they're TOO good. I also hate her.
-Lmao, "If you're close" how about she trades like everyone else on that stupid ass move
-Glad you agree
-Whether they're high or not makes no difference.

I agree, I think Sonya & Erron are the best in the game and I absolutely abhor them as well, but there's room to nerf them all

It's not even Sonic hyping her up because I been anti-Cassie for a while now. There's more to just "knowing" the matchup when you have a chrarcter like Cassie.

And @Immortal, Seeing as Sonic was able to beat Dragon in CEO with Yass Queen, I think she needs a little bit more than just a low gun shot adjustment

Yea them being highs changes everything, you can duck and punish them. That’s fighting game 101. May I internest you in a beginner video? It may help you.

Since the best player in the world won a tournament with her, it’s obvious she needs to get nerfed! I’m glad NRS doesn’t have that mentality. What about when he destroyed people with D’vorah? She needs nerfs then? Kotal beat Erron black (hayatei), Kotal needs nerfs too?

You’re mad that your 50/50 bs and D1 slide isn’t getting you easy wins. And you’re mad Cassie’s a good character you can’t even bother to lab. Knowing the MU can decide if you get a W or a L, you clearly don’t. So just go and hit the lab with her and use your salt for something productive.

 

[Hor_PeT]

"I also hate her." - nerf pls.

I will watch top8 soon probably just Sonic as others are not really interesting but let's see. I hope I will have fun and cheering to Somicfox lol.

 

[lionheart21]

-There's not a problem with good staggers, it's just that they're TOO good. I also hate her.
-Lmao, "If you're close" how about she trades like everyone else on that stupid ass move
-Glad you agree
-Whether they're high or not makes no difference.

I agree, I think Sonya & Erron are the best in the game and I absolutely abhor them as well, but there's room to nerf them all

It's not even Sonic hyping her up because I been anti-Cassie for a while now. There's more to just "knowing" the matchup when you have a chararcter like Cassie.

And @Immortal, Seeing as Sonic was able to beat Dragon in CEO with Yass Queen, I think she needs a little bit more than just a low gun shot adjustment

So you're just flat-out admitting that you have a bias against Cassie. At least you're being honest about it. Also explains why you want all of those changes to Cassie that would absolutely destroy her. There's wanting some nerfs to a character, and then there's levels that put Cherny to shame.

 

[lionheart21]

Yea them being highs changes everything, you can duck and punish them. That’s fighting game 101. May I internest you in a beginner video? It may help you.

Since the best player in the world won a tournament with her, it’s obvious she needs to get nerfed! I’m glad NRS doesn’t have that mentality. What about when he destroyed people with D’vorah? She needs nerfs then? Kotal beat Erron black (hayatei), Kotal needs nerfs too?

You’re mad that your 50/50 bs and D1 slide isn’t getting you easy wins. And you’re mad Cassie’s a good character you can’t even bother to lab. Knowing the MU can decide if you get a W or a L, you clearly don’t. So just go and hit the lab with her and use your salt for something productive.

It'd also be like us complaining that Kano needs to be nerfed because @Circus always hands us our asses in our KOTH match-ups. Kano's low-tier, but @Circus basically knows the character like Kano's an extension of himself. And a character that is so good at whiff-punishing as Cassie is gonna shine with someone who can make reads and adapt as well as SonicFox.

 

[Hor_PeT]

It'd also be like us complaining that Kano needs to be nerfed because @Circus always hands us our asses in our KOTH match-ups. Kano's low-tier, but @Circus basically knows the character like Kano's an extension of himself. And a character that is so good at whiff-punishing as Cassie is gonna shine with someone who can make reads and adapt as well as SonicFox.

Cassie is extension of my brain - dead...

 

[STB Sgt Reed]

I don’t even think she is that stupid. She is an amazing character, maybe even top 1 but honestly I rather deal with top tier Cassie than Erron or Sonya ANYTIME. At least I feel like I can outplay Cassie so I wouldn’t mind her being the absolute best after a patch, but I might be biased because I enjoy playing against characters like her.
Her low shot might need a slight nerf and maybe make amplified glow kick -7 with less pushback so it stays safe but she has to hold pressure after, my only complain right now is how she has so many options after amp glow kick on block when I’m supposed to take my turn after that

The thing about Cassie is, she does lots of things well, but she doesn't do HEAPS of damage while doing those things well. That's probably why, while I hate fighting against her as Jax, I'd rather face her any day than Sonya, Geras, etc. Ya know, the characters who sneeze and get 420 damage. lol

 

[xenogorgeous]

The thing about Cassie is, she does lots of things well, but she doesn't do HEAPS of damage while doing those things well. That's probably why, while I hate fighting against her as Jax, I'd rather face her any day than Sonya, Geras, etc. Ya know, the characters who sneeze and get 420 damage. lol

yeah, very true statement here that I happen to agree with .... at this point of the game, Cassie is a fair character, and not a target for the hatred wave that already exists for MK11, lol

 

[lionheart21]

The thing about Cassie is, she does lots of things well, but she doesn't do HEAPS of damage while doing those things well. That's probably why, while I hate fighting against her as Jax, I'd rather face her any day than Sonya, Geras, etc. Ya know, the characters who sneeze and get 420 damage. lol

And yet trying to explain these things feel like such an uphill battle.

 

[STB Sgt Reed]

And yet trying to explain these things feel like such an uphill battle.

Welcome to playing top tier characters, young padawan. lol

I typically stay away from top tiers so I can use the option select of "I only lost cause my character isn't as good as yours"

 

[Hor_PeT]

yeah, very true statement here that I happen to agree with .... at this point of the game, Cassie is a fair character, and not a target for the hatred wave that already exists for MK11, lol

Maybe that is why Cassie is not targeted too much yet. I do not think any player can pick and win with her easily.

Anybody can call her brainded but I do not think without good fundamental she can be successful.

Knee capping and zoning is strong but you can not really spam alone.
Footsies tools are godlike but if you can not use it properly it will not do anything - with Scorpion I used B1 against everything with disjointed hitbox and with Cassie I just realized that despite the fact that Cassie has faster and maybe a bit longer range B2 it will not do anything if you do it while the opponent's move is active.
B13 yolo from everywhere can backfire too.

Other characters were more popular due to her playstyle and tools. Now she might be more popular but that does not mean she will win everything.
In CEO I saw lot of Cassies but they were "not that good" that I said: oh yeah I want to learn playing like this. Watching Sonicfox makes you better player though.

 

[lionheart21]

Maybe that is why Cassie is not targeted too much yet. I do not think any player can pick and win with her easily.

Anybody can call her brainded but I do not think without good fundamental she can be successful.

Knee capping and zoning is strong but you can not really spam alone.
Footsies tools are godlike but if you can not use it properly it will not do anything - with Scorpion I used B1 against everything with disjointed hitbox and with Cassie I just realized that despite the fact that Cassie has faster and maybe a bit longer range B2 it will not do anything if you do it while the opponent's move is active.
B13 yolo from everywhere can backfire too.

Other characters were more popular due to her playstyle and tools. Now she might be more popular but that does not mean she will win everything.
In CEO I saw lot of Cassies but they were "not that good" that I said: oh yeah I want to learn playing like this. Watching Sonicfox makes you better player though.

That tends to happen with top-tier characters. There's this mindset that just because the character is good means that you'll be able to get an easy win. But if your playstyle clashes with the character, you won't have as much success with them.

 

[xenogorgeous]

Maybe that is why Cassie is not targeted too much yet. I do not think any player can pick and win with her easily.

Anybody can call her brainded but I do not think without good fundamental she can be successful.

Knee capping and zoning is strong but you can not really spam alone.
Footsies tools are godlike but if you can not use it properly it will not do anything - with Scorpion I used B1 against everything with disjointed hitbox and with Cassie I just realized that despite the fact that Cassie has faster and maybe a bit longer range B2 it will not do anything if you do it while the opponent's move is active.
B13 yolo from everywhere can backfire too.

Other characters were more popular due to her playstyle and tools. Now she might be more popular but that does not mean she will win everything.
In CEO I saw lot of Cassies but they were "not that good" that I said: oh yeah I want to learn playing like this. Watching Sonicfox makes you better player though.

exactly .... SonicFox won CEO 2019 using her, cause he is an extraordinary skilled player, with superior "reading ability" over any other competitor there, even more when he was coming back from losers brackets ... It's totally his merit mixed with his incredible personal skill level, plus you can add to that the fact for him for being cool under pressure and winning all that stuff yesterday, hehe

he used Cassie with such agressive approach that nobody could stand his constant pressure with this character .... but overall, Cassie is not a broken character, that make the game "unplayable" at high level .... far from this, indeed.