Cassie Cage General Discussion Thread

[lionheart21]

Yeah exactly. We all know he's a strong player, but he's human & has opinions like everyone else. They're not going to always be right.

I mean me personally, I still believe Sonya is the best character in the game with Erron & Geras next. I have Cassie at #4 at best 6 at worst in my top 10, but I honestly hope that they wait until the end of the year to patch the game like some others do. The game is constantly changing in terms of what people think of the characters which is a good thing. So I still think they should let the game breathe more instead of waiting until after EVO.

Sounds about right. Cassie is definitely Top 5, but not even the top-tiers are exempt from having bad matchups.

 

[JDE]

Like look at D'Vorah, Raiden, & Johnny Cage. Folks shitted on those characters hard until him, PL, & Scar came out & said that they're good & they're being downplayed. Now, they're somewhere on everyone's list in B+ and A lol. Which I had been saying all along that Raiden was being downplayed, but Johnny is underrated, but was missing accessibility to some of MK11's system mechanics.

Jacqui too. "Oh she mid tier at best. Not all that hot." Now she's considered widely as a top 10 character lol, but it didn't start until they started saying & showing it lol. Same for Sub-Zero really.

Edit: @lionheart21 my personal top 5 are Sonya, Erron Black, Geras, Cassie, & Scorpion in that order atm. Jacqui is an arguable one too. I have her at 6, but I have Scorpion there because of his footsies & anti zoning tools opposed to her's.

 

[AK Harold]

That's all good to have your own tier lists, but please consider match ups. Look at your top whatever and ask yourself honestly how many of them does Cassie beat.

She is an obsenely safe character for the range and damage she has. Her largest strengths is her auto shimmies. When she is negative she is too far to throw or D1 so you have to use a reaching move to get to her. Unfortunately she has some of the furthest reaching mids and lows by the frames. She is well designed wether by intent or not.

Her weaknesses are kbs and wake up. But she excels so well in her overall game that she can often make these a non factor.

For me she is a winning character and that's all that matters to me, being 3rd or 10th strongest is irrelevant so long as the character can win tournaments.

I take much more seriously any player saying a character is best or upplaying with results. Downplaying or saying a character is shit usually is a personal option select.

 

[Vslayer]

That's all good to have your own tier lists, but please consider match ups. Look at your top whatever and ask yourself honestly how many of them does Cassie beat.

She is an obsenely safe character for the range and damage she has. Her largest strengths is her auto shimmies. When she is negative she is too far to throw or D1 so you have to use a reaching move to get to her. Unfortunately she has some of the furthest reaching mids and lows by the frames. She is well designed wether by intent or not.

Her weaknesses are kbs and wake up. But she excels so well in her overall game that she can often make these a non factor.

For me she is a winning character and that's all that matters to me, being 3rd or 10th strongest is irrelevant so long as the character can win tournaments.

I take much more seriously any player saying a character is best or upplaying with results. Downplaying or saying a character is shit usually is a personal option select.

Yeah but your Kotal beats my Cassie, so #BuffCassie XD

I do think she's a really strong character, and now that I started using both of her variations it's even more obvious. I don't believe she's unbeatable as some people are saying, she's just annoying as hell to fight against. Even Cassie is a bad MU for Cassie lmao

 

[Vengeance135]

Yo let's do it!

Okay let's do it.

 

[Vengeance135]

That's all good to have your own tier lists, but please consider match ups. Look at your top whatever and ask yourself honestly how many of them does Cassie beat.

She is an obsenely safe character for the range and damage she has. Her largest strengths is her auto shimmies. When she is negative she is too far to throw or D1 so you have to use a reaching move to get to her. Unfortunately she has some of the furthest reaching mids and lows by the frames. She is well designed wether by intent or not.

Her weaknesses are kbs and wake up. But she excels so well in her overall game that she can often make these a non factor.

For me she is a winning character and that's all that matters to me, being 3rd or 10th strongest is irrelevant so long as the character can win tournaments.

I take much more seriously any player saying a character is best or upplaying with results. Downplaying or saying a character is shit usually is a personal option select.

I would hope no one would be downplaying Cassie. With that being said, I do think that though she is one of the best characters in the game, she is mostly a fair character. If they decide to adjust her (which I see as a high probably), they shouldn't do much.

My thoughts on what should be adjusted on her:

F4 should be like 10 or 11F start up and kept at neutral on block. In my opinion, her B243 string is strong enough as a poking tool. She doesn't need another one.

Amped Glow Kick- honestly I feel that this still should be safe, like -5, but with very minimal pushback and DOES NOT have her switch sides. The reason why I think it should still be safe is because shes spending meter. Cassie in general is very meter dependent to do shit.

Nutkick- I think this move should be neutral on hit universally. I think the fact that it's a restand is great in it's own right. She doesn't need to have frame advantage afterward. This would allow the opponent to feel like they have options.

Kneecappin- honestly, the chip damage should be reduced and that's it. At least half the roster has a tool that can punish this move at mid screen or closer on block. Its hella negative. Let's not forget that if they did any adjustments of any kind to the startup or active frames, they could potentially devastate her combo potential since that's her go to combo starter.

Outside of those, I think she will be a strong character, but a bit more fair. I hear people say they should help her out in the Krushing blow department, I personally feel her krushing blows are fair. They are situational and require risk, therefore don't guarantee her anything like some characters that get krushing blows off throws in game that's built on staggers and throws.

 

[Vslayer]

I would hope no one would be downplaying Cassie. With that being said, I do think that though she is one of the best characters in the game, she is mostly a fair character. If they decide to adjust her (which I see as a high probably), they shouldn't do much.

My thoughts on what should be adjusted on her:

F4 should be like 10 or 11F start up and kept at neutral on block. In my opinion, her B243 string is strong enough as a poking tool. She doesn't need another one.

Amped Glow Kick- honestly I feel that this still should be safe, like -5, but with very minimal pushback and DOES NOT have her switch sides. The reason why I think it should still be safe is because shes spending meter. Cassie in general is very meter dependent to do shit.

Nutkick- I think this move should be neutral on hit universally. I think the fact that it's a restand is great in it's own right. She doesn't need to have frame advantage afterward. This would allow the opponent to feel like they have options.

Kneecappin- honestly, the chip damage should be reduced and that's it. At least half the roster has a tool that can punish this move at mid screen or closer on block. Its hella negative. Let's not forget that if they did any adjustments of any kind to the startup or active frames, they could potentially devastate her combo potential since that's her go to combo starter.

Outside of those, I think she will be a strong character, but a bit more fair. I hear people say they should help her out in the Krushing blow department, I personally feel her krushing blows are fair. They are situational and require risk, therefore don't guarantee her anything like some characters that get krushing blows off throws in game that's built on staggers and throws.

I agree, making all these changes will force us to play a more neutral based game with Cassie and that's what this game, I feel like, was designed to be.

 

[Vengeance135]

I agree, making all these changes will force us to play a more neutral based game with Cassie and that's what this game, I feel like, was designed to be.

The Nutkick one kind of kills me but I think its plus frame potential is too inconsistent and frankly... OD

 

[Vslayer]

The Nutkick one kind of kills me but I think its plus frame potential is too inconsistent and frankly... OD

Yeah lmao it hurts my heart, I won't be able to shout 'WELCOME TO CASSIE TOWN' after looping people in restand combos, but you know, I think even without that she'll still be really strong.

 

[AK Harold]

Damn y'all wanna Nerf her way harder than I do lol. That's a lot of needs together.

 

[Vengeance135]

Damn y'all wanna Nerf her way harder than I do lol. That's a lot of needs together.

My bad lmao I just try to think about how I feel she was meant to be played

 

[Wetdoba]

That's all good to have your own tier lists, but please consider match ups. Look at your top whatever and ask yourself honestly how many of them does Cassie beat.

She is an obsenely safe character for the range and damage she has. Her largest strengths is her auto shimmies. When she is negative she is too far to throw or D1 so you have to use a reaching move to get to her. Unfortunately she has some of the furthest reaching mids and lows by the frames. She is well designed wether by intent or not.

Her weaknesses are kbs and wake up. But she excels so well in her overall game that she can often make these a non factor.

For me she is a winning character and that's all that matters to me, being 3rd or 10th strongest is irrelevant so long as the character can win tournaments.

I take much more seriously any player saying a character is best or upplaying with results. Downplaying or saying a character is shit usually is a personal option select.

Just here to say thank you for being the first person Ive seen to use "auto-shimmy" correctly

 

[lionheart21]

Like look at D'Vorah, Raiden, & Johnny Cage. Folks shitted on those characters hard until him, PL, & Scar came out & said that they're good & they're being downplayed. Now, they're somewhere on everyone's list in B+ and A lol. Which I had been saying all along that Raiden was being downplayed, but Johnny is underrated, but was missing accessibility to some of MK11's system mechanics.

Jacqui too. "Oh she mid tier at best. Not all that hot." Now she's considered widely as a top 10 character lol, but it didn't start until they started saying & showing it lol. Same for Sub-Zero really.

Edit: @lionheart21 my personal top 5 are Sonya, Erron Black, Geras, Cassie, & Scorpion in that order atm. Jacqui is an arguable one too. I have her at 6, but I have Scorpion there because of his footsies & anti zoning tools opposed to her's.

That's pretty much mine as well. Right now, I'm not sure if I'd place Cassie or Jacqui as the gatekeeper of the Top 5, since both make compelling arguments for that position.

 

[lionheart21]

I would hope no one would be downplaying Cassie. With that being said, I do think that though she is one of the best characters in the game, she is mostly a fair character. If they decide to adjust her (which I see as a high probably), they shouldn't do much.

My thoughts on what should be adjusted on her:

F4 should be like 10 or 11F start up and kept at neutral on block. In my opinion, her B243 string is strong enough as a poking tool. She doesn't need another one.

Amped Glow Kick- honestly I feel that this still should be safe, like -5, but with very minimal pushback and DOES NOT have her switch sides. The reason why I think it should still be safe is because shes spending meter. Cassie in general is very meter dependent to do shit.

Nutkick- I think this move should be neutral on hit universally. I think the fact that it's a restand is great in it's own right. She doesn't need to have frame advantage afterward. This would allow the opponent to feel like they have options.

Kneecappin- honestly, the chip damage should be reduced and that's it. At least half the roster has a tool that can punish this move at mid screen or closer on block. Its hella negative. Let's not forget that if they did any adjustments of any kind to the startup or active frames, they could potentially devastate her combo potential since that's her go to combo starter.

Outside of those, I think she will be a strong character, but a bit more fair. I hear people say they should help her out in the Krushing blow department, I personally feel her krushing blows are fair. They are situational and require risk, therefore don't guarantee her anything like some characters that get krushing blows off throws in game that's built on staggers and throws.

Between you and @Goatlegs, all of the nerfs that have been mentioned are perfectly fair and you both gave good reasons behind them, showing that you both understand how the character is meant to be played. She keeps her gameplan while not feeling as oppressive to the lower-tier characters.

As for her Krushing Blows being fair, I agree, she's in a great position there.

 

[wsj515]

Full disclosure - I am someone who thinks Cassie is easily one of the best character in the game, and should definitely get nerfed. I cannot say to what extent, because that fully depends on what NRS plans to do with every other character.

I think a lot of you are being pretty disingenuous when you say things like "she's strong but she's honest." She's a jack of all trades character, but usually jack of all trades characters have tools that do things 'good enough,' whereas she might be best-in-class (or close to it) in a bunch of areas, and her 'weaknesses' are practically non-existent.

Also, no offense, but it's a bit hard to see people talking so matter-of-factly about their main when they are just now discovering basic aspects of the character's toolkit.

 

[sars]

Full disclosure - I am someone who thinks Cassie is easily one of the best character in the game, and should definitely get nerfed. I cannot say to what extent, because that fully depends on what NRS plans to do with every other character.

I think a lot of you are being pretty disingenuous when you say things like "she's strong but she's honest." She's a jack of all trades character, but usually jack of all trades characters have tools that do things 'good enough,' whereas she might be best-in-class (or close to it) in a bunch of areas, and her 'weaknesses' are practically non-existent.

Also, no offense, but it's a bit hard to see people talking so matter-of-factly about their main when they are just now discovering basic aspects of the character's toolkit.

We all think she’s good, We know what she can and can’t do. I honestly think she atleast top 3 in the game. I don’t think she really has a bad matchup. There was like 6 of us posting in the Cassie thread when the game came out trying to find tech, now out of nowhere everyone just jumps in and talks about nerfs. No one downplaying her, people just assume we are. You also act like the game is 10 years old, people are gonna learn things at different speeds, there is nothing wrong with someone just finding stuff out about a character. If we look at all the tournaments, Cassie has won 1 of them. There was only one in top 8 at CEO. Y’all acting like she’s unbeatable. It is true though people would rather complain than learn the matchup. Same reason why people say Sonya, garas, scorpion, Jax, Jacqui, subzero and others are OP. Better to complain than learn the matchup.

 

[Vengeance135]

Full disclosure - I am someone who thinks Cassie is easily one of the best character in the game, and should definitely get nerfed. I cannot say to what extent, because that fully depends on what NRS plans to do with every other character.

I think a lot of you are being pretty disingenuous when you say things like "she's strong but she's honest." She's a jack of all trades character, but usually jack of all trades characters have tools that do things 'good enough,' whereas she might be best-in-class (or close to it) in a bunch of areas, and her 'weaknesses' are practically non-existent.

Also, no offense, but it's a bit hard to see people talking so matter-of-factly about their main when they are just now discovering basic aspects of the character's toolkit.

Hey man, people play this game at many levels. When I say shes strong but fair, i say that acknowledging she needs adjustments but is not nearly has bad or easy to access as characters like Sonya, erron and etc.

You sound a bit salty so before you open this can of worms, let me extend an invitation.

If you struggle with the MU, I have no problem helping you out.

My PSN is Vengeance135.

 

[wsj515]

We all think she’s good, We know what she can and can’t do. I honestly think she atleast top 3 in the game. I don’t think she really has a bad matchup. There was like 6 of us posting in the Cassie thread when the game came out trying to find tech, now out of nowhere everyone just jumps in and talks about nerfs. No one downplaying her, people just assume we are. You also act like the game is 10 years old, people are gonna learn things at different speeds, there is nothing wrong with someone just finding stuff out about a character. If we look at all the tournaments, Cassie has won 1 of them. There was only one in top 8 at CEO. Y’all acting like she’s unbeatable. It is true though people would rather complain than learn the matchup. Same reason why people say Sonya, garas, scorpion, Jax, Jacqui, subzero and others are OP. Better to complain than learn the matchup.

You're making a big generalization when you say no one is downplaying her, because I've seen many people in this thread downplay her many times. It's also not productive to say "learn the matchup," as if knowing the matchup somehow makes a character who, in your own words, has no bad matchups balanced (whatever that means).

All I'm really saying here - and if what you say is true, I'm preaching to the choir - is that this character needs adjustment, and that has nothing to do with tournament results, sonic fox, her being 'honest,' etc. I doubt she needs much changed, but she needs something, and I think the post discussing fair nerfs are great, rather than other instances of serious downplay.

I have no problem with people learning the game at different speeds, but I do find it silly when those people then go on to call others scrubs, etc. I mean nothing more here than to point out the irony.

 

[sars]

You're making a big generalization when you say no one is downplaying her, because I've seen many people in this thread downplay her many times. It's also not productive to say "learn the matchup," as if knowing the matchup somehow makes a character who, in your own words, has no bad matchups balanced (whatever that means).

All I'm really saying here - and if what you say is true, I'm preaching to the choir - is that this character needs adjustment, and that has nothing to do with tournament results, sonic fox, her being 'honest,' etc. I doubt she needs much changed, but she needs something, and I think the post discussing fair nerfs are great, rather than other instances of serious downplay.

I have no problem with people learning the game at different speeds, but I do find it silly when those people then go on to call others scrubs, etc. I mean nothing more here than to point out the irony.

Everyone here thinks she’s good and they have all said it. Some may think she 6 some may think she’s the best, some in between. She definently getting nerfed somehow, that’s gonna happen. How they do it I don’t know, only time will tell. 2 pros have already dropped her for other characters so they must think she’s not the best. Knowing the matchup Does not make a character lower on the tier list but it does help someone turn bad matchups in there favor. I just hate how everyone would rather bitch about a character instead of try to learn how to beat a certain character. I don’t think I have ever called a character OP because there’s no point in waisting my breath, when I could lab it and find something that helps me with the matchup. I would rather people say how can I counter this, or what should I do if Cassie does this instead of just saying she needs nerfs. There gonna balance the game, we know that but for right now we need to deal with how the game is. No point in complaining about it.

 

[OfficialCasti]

Amped Glow Kick- honestly I feel that this still should be safe, like -5, but with very minimal pushback and DOES NOT have her switch sides.

I'm interested by this. If the glow kick amp wouldn't let her switch side, what would you do to avoid getting killed in the corner? Assuming that her wake ups and pokes remain bad. Could you use anything else other than the roll? Please, don't say flip out.

 

[Vengeance135]

I'm interested by this. If the glow kick amp wouldn't let her switch side, what would you do to avoid getting killed in the corner? Assuming that her wake ups and pokes remain bad. Could you use anything else other than the roll? Please, don't say flip out.

Thanks for asking! Her wake ups arent that good but nut punch is invincible. You also have the universal mechanics like roll, neutral jump, delayed get up, breakaway if you are combo'd and (yes I'm about to say this) wake up standing 1. Wake up Standing 1 is pretty effective especially when you're opponent gets scared to apply pressure. Honestly, I don't think a character that has as many dominating as Cassie should also have a switch sides move that is virtually unpunishable and gets her away from her opponent and out the corner free.

 

[Goatlegs]

First, I appreciate the maturity coming from you my friend. Discussion is everything and opinions should be respected rather you agree with them or not. As for your suggestions. They actually aren't bad ones.

Reo recently did a video as to what he thinks would make Cassie a bit more fair and the suggestions I remember were making her amped glowkick a little less safe and reducing the chip damage on kneecappin. it's really hard to say nerf her f2, 1+3 move since it's her only real threatening Krushing blow so I can't really agree with that.

Heres a quick breakdown of her Krushing Blow requirements:

F2, 1+3: as you know is a fast 10F high starter that, if it connects as a counter hit, can follow up with a 1+3 for a Krushing blow. 1+3 is plus on block but with a lot of pushback, basically just resetting neutral.

D2 Uppercut: (This one is Universal)

B1,3 (opponent must be blocking high)
Now B1,3 is full combo punishable on block so to go for this krushing blow is super risky, hence why you don't see it used often in high level play.

Charged pistol shot- quite possibly the most LEAST used Krushing blow due to how hard it is to actually connect. You have to hold the charge all the way through and hit someone with it. That's kind of hard since it's a high. At this point, if you get hit with this Krushing blow, you deserve to the damage taken.

Now her F4 being -2 on block is quite interesting. I disagree with this because it's not really eliminating the threat. The threat behind F4 is the fact that its a 9F mid. Making it -2 just means that we will go for the overhead more often and then people will complain that she has a 9F Mid that goes into a safe overhead. Just make F4 10F and keep it Neutral on block so a huge portion of the cast can contest it and call it a day. Neutral on block opens up the mind games for both people.

People say Cassie is "too safe" but in all actuality, shes really too linear and because of her linearity, she has to compensate somehow.

She has 3 moves plus on block that come to mind.

Standing 4 (which is a high)

F2 1+3 (which has a lot of pushback)

F343 (which has a HUGE gap in between 4 and 3) and even has a huge push back if you block the 3 ender.

This Character is otherwise safe but still negative and can easily be telegraphed, especially when she has to take the offensive.

I'm not downplaying in the slightest either. She is easily one of the best characters in the game hands down.

But she is also one of the fairest in the give and take department. You can't just pick her up and autopilot her like you can with characters like Sonya Erron and Geras.

If you want, you and I can lab together. I can show my explanation better then I can type it
Sometimes labbing with a Character specialist can be really eye opening as to the options you have that you didn't know you had.

I respect your maturity as well, this thread has seen some toxicity since launch. I don't disagree with any of your suggestions, there are definitely many ways of going about potential changes for her. I believe at the end of the day she will remain strong no matter what which is perfectly fine in the long term, assuming they don't nerf her into the ground. I'll have to check out that REO video. I've been following him since mk9 and I usually agree with everything he says. F4 will always be a topic of debate, I'm interested to see what they do to it, if anything at all. I'd love to lab whenever I get time, which is not very often lately, but unfortunately I think we are on different consoles.

Hopefully more constructive discussion comes out of this thread. I understand some peoples salt but it really does get old sometimes and stifles game progression.

 

[lionheart21]

To get a bit off the topic of Cassie gameplay changes, I was bored at work today and came up with a new potential victory pose for Cassie.

At the end of the match or possibly as a mid-round taunt, Cassie eats a piece of chewing gum, and blows a bubble while hitting a single-arm bicep pose, so she's literally "flexing on her haters." Not sure if this means that I'm getting more into the Cassie mindset, or if it came from being in the Johnny mindset (could be both honestly), but there ya go.

 

[Nerobianco]

I'd like to note that potential nerfs or buffs might take a while. My memory is not very good, but I believe that this is the longest we ever waited for a patch after launch for an NRS game. Also, feel free to disagree but I believe that this is very healthy for the game to have some time to breathe. A month ago I wanted Geras to be deleted from this game, now I think he is not "that good". Cassie is the flavor of the month, next to Sonya and Geras. Little to no one is talking about Erron now, ah and remember Scorpion?

NRS Is watching. I just hope that they don't rush anything. If you enjoy Cassie, play her. If you think she is too strong or broken, that's ok. I'd rather have hitbox issues fixed first. It's only been two months, that's a whole lot of nothing. The game is cool and Sonya's a bitch.

 

[SubZeroIce]

Thanks for asking! Her wake ups arent that good but nut punch is invincible. You also have the universal mechanics like roll, neutral jump, delayed get up, breakaway if you are combo'd and (yes I'm about to say this) wake up standing 1. Wake up Standing 1 is pretty effective especially when you're opponent gets scared to apply pressure. Honestly, I don't think a character that has as many dominating as Cassie should also have a switch sides move that is virtually unpunishable and gets her away from her opponent and out the corner free.

And if she doesn't have it that's more than okay. A character doesn't need a main tool to leave the corner. Kitana doesn't and her u3 is worse than Cassie's.

It shouldn't have switched sides AND been safe.

I'd like to note that potential nerfs or buffs might take a while. My memory is not very good, but I believe that this is the longest we ever waited for a patch after launch for an NRS game. Also, feel free to disagree but I believe that this is very healthy for the game to have some time to breathe. A month ago I wanted Geras to be deleted from this game, now I think he is not "that good". Cassie is the flavor of the month, next to Sonya and Geras. Little to no one is talking about Erron now, ah and remember Scorpion?

NRS Is watching. I just hope that they don't rush anything. If you enjoy Cassie, play her. If you think she is too strong or broken, that's ok. I'd rather have hitbox issues fixed first. It's only been two months, that's a whole lot of nothing. The game is cool and Sonya's a bitch.

Nah Geras is still stupid as hell and deserves to be deleted. That D1 & Sand trap will never be okay lmao.

And no. First balance patch for Injustice 2 came out July 31st. That was a little over 2 and a half months after release. I expect something similar with MK11. I'm thinking it'll coincide with Nightwolf release.