Balance Change Council

[OutworldKeith]

I'm glad someone mentioned this as it's the main source of Kabal's damage, but even then there should be other changes alongside it.

LBSH, the f4 reset is bullshit. Either remove the f4 reset, or remove the ability to canacel the Nomad Dash.

At least with other characters your put into a guessing situation.

 

[Prinz]

2ndc isn't a true infinite people. The advantage is fucked up but even high hitboxes get out of it. You need to take a hit then duck OR keep blocking low until the kabal gets it off frame. The only thing you have to worry about is guessing wrong for the hit. If the kabal makes the right read he can blow you up with b121 or any string into the dash when you let go of block. I don't recall seeing anyone hitconfirming standing 2~nd what kabal's have won matches by using 2ndc most of the time. Hell, I rarely see 2ndc used repeatedly.

Watch REO some more.

 

[RYX]

LBSH, the f4 reset is bullshit. Either remove the f4 reset, or remove the ability to canacel the Nomad Dash.

At least with other characters your put into a guessing situation.

Or it could be made like Ermac's F4 where the other guy has a chance to actually get out.

iunno

 

[Konqrr]

You want to nerf Raiden wtf?. He has already been nerfed badly and now you want to nerf his best string and his superman which loses to everything and has already been nerfed. That's very unfair imo.

That roundhouse hits people at the peak of their jump not anywhere NEAR Raiden. It should not have that big of a vertical hitbox. It's not really a nerf, it's removing stupid shit that should not happen.

PerfectMindGame NO character needs a 6f launcher. Do you even know how to counter poke? Doing so gives you huge frame advantage and now you are in and they have to block your jabs or be hit. Would you not respect his spin if it was 8f?

 

[Metzos]

Ermac is fine imo, but i m willing to do this for the sake of fun.

 

[OutworldKeith]

Or it could be made like Ermac's F4 where the other guy has a chance to actually get out.

iunno

No, I don't think you understand how Kabal's f4 works. Both Kabal's and Ermac's f4 reset, but Kabal's advantage on is f4 doesn't really depend on the height at which it's landed. Plus Ermac doesn't have good rushdown pressure like Kabal.

After any combo he's going to end with f4, reset you into guaranteed chip damage, and if you get hit it's back to square 1. The fact that he has those ridiculous NDC blockstrings should warrant taking away that f4 reset.

 

[MashPotatoTower]

I'm so down for a beefy armour buff on sindel and ermac.
Night wolf 50 - 50 starters, b2 overhead, f3 low

 

[BillStickers]

Kabal should be able to throw fans and forceballs.

 

[OutworldKeith]

Needs Nerfs:
Kabal - F4 reset needs to go; Cool down on iagb
Cyrax - Damage nerf; Resets need to go
Sonya - MS options need to be more punishable; Cartwheel should be at least -5
Kenshi - Too much armor; SC needs to be more punishable
Jax - Corner bullshit needs to go; Has too much armor
Smoke - Reset needs to go
Skarlett - Too much armor
Quan Chi - Run Trap shit needs to go

Just Fine:
Liu Kang
Kung Lao
Reptile
Raiden
Sub-Zero
Cage
NW
Mileena
Rain
Kitana
Sektor
Shang Tsung
Ermac

Needs Buffs:
Sheeva -
Kano - Choke should hit mid; b2 should be faster; Old knives back
Stryker - b2 should hit mid
Scorpion - Needs Sub-Zero's d4; EX spear needs fixing; Whiffed Hellfire safe
Noob - Shadows should be safe on block; EX tele should grant a combo
Jade - Damage buff

Not Sure
Sindel
Freddy
CSZ
Kratos

General
No character should have more than 1 armored ex special.

 

[RYX]

CSZ needs normal pokes and a faster freeze. That's all.

 

[Big Pampering]

That roundhouse hits people at the peak of their jump not anywhere NEAR Raiden. It should not have that big of a vertical hitbox. It's not really a nerf, it's removing stupid shit that should not happen.

PerfectMindGame NO character needs a 6f launcher. Do you even know how to counter poke? Doing so gives you huge frame advantage and now you are in and they have to block your jabs or be hit. Would you not respect his spin if it was 8f?

no I dont think you understand the issue of not having a mid. even if kung lao is on + a simple uppercut/d1/d3/d4 can interrupt whatever he does, he cannot start any pressure unless he has something to make you respect his high strings, which is a spin that can beat pokes.

you dont need to respect the spin if you have a 7 frame d3 and a 6frame d1, you will be able to punish their second poke if they decide to machine gun poke you but they can also poke and block and you will be throwing random spins to beat simple pokes even if they are at disadvantage. unless you block their poke they will always be faster.

it just messes up how this character is designed in the first place. first of all the 6 frame launcher is not safe, if speed is all youre going by sektor also has a 6 frame launcher that is safe, but why is it not as good? because it doesnt hit mid...

 

[xInfra Deadx]

Freddy is fine as is. As far as Reptile and Kitana go, they only need slight nerfs.

 

[OutworldKeith]

Freddy is fine as is. As far as Reptile and Kitana go, they only need slight nerfs.

Kitana's fans need to have added gravity after each landed fan. The whole 20 fans in 1 combo thing is pretty retarded considering the fact that you can't break it, but other than that she's fine. Reptile is pretty balance IMO. Not to powerful, not too weak.

 

[OutworldKeith]

*Snip

KL is fine dude. It is essential that character have a weakness so they won't be OP or broken. KL has tons of other bullshit, he does well against most of the OP/broken characters...what more do you want?

He doesn't need a mid.

 

[Big Pampering]

KL is fine dude. It is essential that character have a weakness so they won't be OP or broken. KL has tons of other bullshit, he does well against most of the OP/broken characters...what more do you want?

He doesn't need a mid.

he is perfectly fine like he is now, but he wont if they make his spin 8frames. the only situation where kung lao needs a mid is when his spin isnt 6 frames anymore. the whole reason why kung lao doesnt have mids is because of that spin.

 

[OutworldKeith]

he is perfectly fine like he is now, but he wont if they make his spin 8frames. the only situation where kung lao needs a mid is when his spin isnt 6 frames anymore. the whole reason why kung lao doesnt have mids is because of that spin.

I still thinks he's fine as is. He's had success as a character in tournament without any good mids thus far.

 

[xInfra Deadx]

Reptile is pretty balance IMO. Not to powerful, not too weak.

The Elbow Dash. Some characters can't do much at all with that move as retarded as it is online.

 

[zaf]

Needs Nerfs:
Kabal
Cyrax
Sonya
Kenshi
Jax
Smoke
Skarlett
Quan Chi

Just Fine:
Liu Kang
Kung Lao
Reptile
Raiden
Sub-Zero
Cage
NW
Mileena
Rain
Kitana
Sektor
Shang Tsung

Needs Buffs:
Sheeva
Kano
Stryker
Scorpion
Noob
Jade

Not Sure
Sindel
Freddy
CSZ
Kratos

You forgot ermac.

 

[OutworldKeith]

The Elbow Dash. Some characters can't do much at all with that move as retarded as it is online.

Online should be COMPLETELY disregarded in this dicussion. Online doesn't emulate offline gameplay good enough.

Elbow Dash is perfectly punishable offline. Did you ever see any Reptile spamming it in tournament?

 

[OutworldKeith]

You forgot ermac.

Thought I put him under Just Fine . I'll add him

 

[zaf]

Only changes id ever make for ermac would be to make his d1 and d3 + frames on hit regardless if the opponent is standing or crouching.

I would also like a sub zero crouching hitbox but that is not as important as what ive stated above. In fact it never bothered me, it was only until today when it was mentioned by Konqrr where i actually thought about it more

 

[AK L0rdoftheFLY]

Can somebody please explain the point behind this change that people say NW needs, despite the fact that he doesn't even have an overhead that's not later in a string?

Ill pm you a reasonable list of NW buffs today

 

[OutworldKeith]

Only changes id ever make for ermac would be to make his d1 and d3 + frames on hit regardless if the opponent is standing or crouching.

I would also like a sub zero crouching hitbox but that is not as important as what ive stated above. In fact it never bothered me, it was only until today when it was mentioned by Konqrr where i actually thought about it more

Some of the characters that are fine could use buffs but they need a weakness.

 

[Wildabeast]

Sub Zero:
- Slide goes under all duckable projectiles but no longer goes under Sheeva's un-duckable one.
- Scaling on freezes removed
- F4, 1+2 made minus 7 and linkable
- D1 made 6 frames and plus on hit

 

[Wildabeast]

Online should be COMPLETELY disregarded in this dicussion. Online doesn't emulate offline gameplay good enough.

Elbow Dash is perfectly punishable offline. Did you ever see any Reptile spamming it in tournament?

Chris G.