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Balance Change Council

GrandMasterson

The Netherrealm beckons
Okay why not

Stryker

+ Gun shots can now be delayed in between one another
+ Gun shots can now be cancelled entirely after the first shot
+ Stryker can now neutral jump cancel out of gun
+ B3 startup frames reduced to 17 (formerly 26)
+ The last hit of 2, 3, 2 is now an overhead (still -28 on block)
+ 1, 1, 4 can now be cancelled into a special after 4
+ Standing 3 on hit is now +12 (formerly +9)
+B2, B4 is now -4 on block (formerly -12)
+B2, 1 now has more block pushback (still -8)
- Random armor removed from EX baton sweep


Did my fanboyism get in the way?
 

Laos_boy

Meow Hoes
Needs Nerfs:
Kabal - F4 reset needs to go; Cool down on iagb
Cyrax - Damage nerf; Resets need to go
Sonya - MS options need to be more punishable; Cartwheel should be at least -5
Kenshi - Too much armor; SC needs to be more punishable
Jax - Corner bullshit needs to go; Has too much armor
Smoke - Reset needs to go
Skarlett - Too much armor
Quan Chi - Run Trap shit needs to go

Just Fine:
Liu Kang
Kung Lao
Reptile
Raiden
Sub-Zero
Cage
NW
Mileena
Rain
Kitana
Sektor
Shang Tsung
Ermac

Needs Buffs:
Sheeva -
Kano - Choke should hit mid; b2 should be faster; Old knives back
Stryker - b2 should hit mid
Scorpion - Needs Sub-Zero's d4; EX spear needs fixing; Whiffed Hellfire safe
Noob - Shadows should be safe on block; EX tele should grant a combo
Jade - Damage buff

Not Sure
Sindel
Freddy
CSZ
Kratos

General
No character should have more than 1 armored ex special.
Skarlet does not have too much armor. She has one armored move. She needs it. I think she's fine.
 

OutworldKeith

Champion
I've got a few:
Stryker
+ Less startup on Grenade Toss (all variants) - 22f->18f
+ Less recovery on Grenade Toss (all variants) - from -15 to -11
+ Less startup on Gun Shot - 26f->20f
+ Less recovery on Xray - from -35 to -15
+ Armor now lasts longer on EX Roll
How will any of these buffs really help Stryker? His overall problem is that he has a hard time getting damage outside of punishment mode.
 

OutworldKeith

Champion
Skarlet does not have too much armor. She has one armored move. She needs it. I think she's fine.
Up Slash and Down Slash are both armored right? She isn't fine, and has plenty of dumb shit that's not fair to other characters.

GTFOH man, she doesn't need any armor LBSH. She builds meter like it's no tomorrow, has a reset, etc.
 

kronspik

Mortal
Stryker needs fast mids. All of his quick moves hit true high.

Honestly I feel like there should be more overheads and mids in the game overall. There are a lot of true highs but a lot of characters don't have a good way to punish people who duck all day. I like how Tekken handles this. Highs have good frame data but are duckable and every character has a plethora of awesome and fast overheads to punish people who try to duck those highs.
 

RiBBz22

TYM's Confirmed Prophet/Time-Traveler
Smoke D4 + 16 on hit, which will help in preventing jump outs of his pressure for some of his strings and allow for more options off D4 other than B2. EX-Teleport safe on block. Startup frames for smoke away/towards is reduced.
 

Laos_boy

Meow Hoes
Up Slash and Down Slash are both armored right? She isn't fine, and has plenty of dumb shit that's not fair to other characters.
Well if you count that up slash and down slash link off the armored move i guess. I guess you can tone down her damage. But other than that I think she needs her ex dagger cancels
 

OutworldKeith

Champion
Stryker needs fast mids. All of his quick moves hit true high.

Honestly I feel like there should be more overheads and mids in the game overall. There are a lot of true highs but a lot of characters don't have a good way to punish people who duck all day. I like how Tekken handles this. Highs have good frame data but are duckable and every character has a plethora of awesome and fast overheads to punish people who try to duck those highs.
That's how VF5 works too. I don't see why MK doesn't because it's technically a 3d fighter in terms of mechanics.

Stryker's problem is that he has trouble dealing damage outside of punishment mode. His main combo starters (B1 and B2) should be buffed.
 

OutworldKeith

Champion
Well if you count that up slash and down slash link off the armored move i guess. I guess you can tone down her damage. But other than that I think she needs her ex dagger cancels
Somethings got to go bro. I don't think a lot of us actually understand what balance is. You can't have everything work to your characters benefit. They need to be weak in certain areas, and that's what stops them from becoming OP/broken.
 

OutworldKeith

Champion
Smoke D4 + 16 on hit, which will help in preventing jump outs of his pressure for some of his strings and allow for more options off D4 other than B2. EX-Teleport safe on block. Startup frames for smoke away/towards is reduced.
Smoke doesn't need any of that. All he NEEDS is that reset removed.

There's a difference between wanting and needing.
 

kronspik

Mortal
Somethings got to go bro. I don't think a lot of us actually understand what balance is. You can't have everything work to your characters benefit. They need to be weak in certain areas, and that's what stops them from becoming OP/broken.
They don't necessarily have to be weak in a specific area, but if they're really good at something, they should also be bad at something. You can have well rounded characters that are balanced as well though.
 

Laos_boy

Meow Hoes
Somethings got to go bro. I don't think a lot of us actually understand what balance is. You can't have everything work to your characters benefit. They need to be weak in certain areas, and that's what stops them from becoming OP/broken.
I see your point. I guess take away armor on the slashes is fine I think she does alot of damage too. I just can't she her with our her ex daggers
 

OutworldKeith

Champion
Smoke would be shit without his reset though.
You gotta be trolling me man. Smoke has a safe 50/50, deals decent damage, has great air control, and a decent whiff punisher. Taking away his reset wouldn't really hurt him on the tier list.

I hope your trolling.
 

Prinz

watch?v=a8PEVV6tt14
You gotta be trolling me man. Smoke has a safe 50/50, deals decent damage, has great air control, and a decent whiff punisher. Taking away his reset wouldn't really hurt him on the tier list.

I hope your trolling.
Yeah, I meant he'd have a lot of 5-5's through his MU chart :) His reset gives him at least 1 point in every match-up, maybe 2 in some, so this is my math.
 

OutworldKeith

Champion
I see your point. I guess take away armor on the slashes is fine I think she does alot of damage too. I just can't she her with our her ex daggers
Something's gotta give bro. She does great damage, she have great amor, she has great blockstrings, she has a reset...Where is her weakness?

It's almost like Kabal. He has all of this crap in his advantage with little to no weakness and a reset...BROKEN
 

OutworldKeith

Champion
Yeah, I meant he'd have a lot of 5-5's through his MU chart :) His reset gives him at least 1 point in every match-up, maybe 2 in some, so this is my math.
I don't think it will hurt him. The only characters that will be hurt by removing resets are Kabal and Cyrax, and that justified considering the fact that they are both broken characters.
 

Laos_boy

Meow Hoes
Something's gotta give bro. She does great damage, she have great amor, she has great blockstrings, she has a reset...Where is her weakness?

It's almost like Kabal. He has all of this crap in his advantage with little to no weakness and a reset...BROKEN
I guess I can admit she's a little OP. But people say her zoning sucks and I think she's a bit risky because one error or wrong moves she can get punished
 

OutworldKeith

Champion
Disagree that Smoke doesn't need any of that, but whatever.
I respect everyone's right to have an opinion. However, all of your buffs will do nothing but make a great character OP. It's called balance for a reason. He has all the tools he needs, remove his reset and he'll be fine.
 

RiBBz22

TYM's Confirmed Prophet/Time-Traveler
I respect everyone's right to have an opinion. However, all of your buffs will do nothing but make a great character OP. It's called balance for a reason. He has all the tools he needs, remove his reset and he'll be fine.
I agree he is a great character at the moment but take away the resets and he falls off a lot on the tier list. I used to think he would be pretty much the same with or without the reset but let's be serious the only offensive use of meter is the EX bomb for resets. Anyways on the flip side if rushdown characters were nerfed to create more balance in the game it would almost be like giving Smoke buff's since those are the characters he struggles against.
 

OutworldKeith

Champion
I agree he is a great character at the moment but take away the resets and he falls off a lot on the tier list. I used to think he would be pretty much the same with or without the reset but let's be serious the only offensive use of meter is the EX bomb for resets. Anyways on the flip side if rushdown characters were nerfed to create more balance in the game it would almost be like giving Smoke buff's since those are the characters he struggles against.
trust me if they balanced it correctly Smoke would still be top 10. the rushdown charachers need the most nerfs ironically lol.