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Are you enjoyin the current meta?


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I voted I need more time. I see some genuine complaints in here concerning balance of certain characters and Scorpion's teleport. Both versions or the teleport are unsafe but its hard to react to the standard for me. One big complaint I have is punishing unsafe moves online. I'll use Scorpions teleport for example. There are times I'm trying to punish his EX teleport and nothing comes out and it's not just with one character. I've heard others complain about this issue. Hopefully when NRS goes in to change things up its for the better.
 

Afumba

Noob
I like that game so far. Overall its really enjoyable.

FBs should be turned down though.
Maybe they should be tied to KBs... like they unlock after you have done 3 KBs in a match. Once unlocked they are a 1 time use no matter if you miss or hit. They also should do only around 25% damage.
 
I figured as much. Haven’t really been doing the flawless block thing yet since I’ve been mainly trying to get my muscle memory down for offense. Got that done now I’m gonna get my defense tightened up. Isn’t th punish window for Flawless block like 1 frame though? Hard to hit online.
Yea it's hard online. You can also crouch d× and d2 for a crushing blow.
 

TrulyAmiracle

Loud and Klear~
Everything considered, if it’s a straight up yes or no question I’d go with no, but it’s not as clean cut as that.

I’ve had the game for almost a month now, and I think I’m finally over the new car smell of the game and I’m not liking what I’m seeing if things don’t get adjusted.

The game imo is shallow, if you’re only sticking to tourney presets it’s painfully shallow and just about everyone feels too simple.

Custom moves fixes some aspects where you can equip moves to enhance the way you want to play (more combo routes, more zoning/anti-Zoning, safer options, more options for mix like command grabs and stances etc) but honestly even with custom I think it’s still too simple but at least it’ll be more fun and exporation can be a big factor and more worthwhile.

Movesets are too gutted. They need 2 or 3 more strings universally, adjust some specials set to abilities to be universal.
Outside of Sonya and Geras everyone just feels like they werent fully done.

I dont understand this new hard-on fighting games have with “neutral” but I realized after SFV and now MK11 than I’m not a fan of this approach.
Making every other aspect garbage just so people are finally forced to walk around and whiff punish thinking they’re hot shit is not my idea of a good game.
Look at tekken or SC or even KoF, you can keep all the options strong and useful and still have “neutral” as a very important part of the game.
Movement and spacing are always a big part no matter how crazy the tools are, you don’t have to make everything ass so people will play more footsies.
You’re glad that people are more grounded and you can play “neutral” whiff punish? Well no shit coz that’s all you can do now as everything else sucks.

Jumps are just straight up awful, they’re overly floaty and slow and can’t jump over anything, yet jump kicks are still stupid and needlessly hard to anti air.
90% of movesets are unsafe or crazy negative limiting the already small movesets even more.
Throws are too good as it is, at least half of any match is just throws. Them beating pokes is still annoying, I get why they did it but I still don’t like it.
Pokes need to be more plus on hit, if you don’t have a good mid it’s almost stupid if they dont mash d1.
This along with how throws are just makes the game very mashy and messy upclose.

So many hitboxes are sloppy and need adjustments, Kollector’s u2 straight up doesnt work, Erron’s f32 hits behind him, Jacqui’s KB anti airs behind her, Liu’s throw makes d2s magically whiff etc.

Krushing blow requirements are all over the place, some you’ll rarely see coz of overly specific and pointless restrictions like Johnny’s camera and glasses KBs and Kollector’s mace KB when others like Geras can get all of his almost every match.
I love KBs but some requirements definitely need some tweaking.
They also need to add a setting for them in training, I’m so sick of having to do Jacqui’s full clinch rotation just to try out one combo.

I’ll end it by saying this, I don’t think the game is bad, in fact the game is super good and has a crazy amount of potential, but personally I don’t see myself sticking with it if custom variations don’t get added so I can play my character the way I want them to because 16bit’s “tourney presets” are trash.


I hate saying it because not only was I hype over the roof for the game (I was scouring for almost 8 hours on the day the game arrived here to get it asap) and I’ve been helping many players from other games learn the game, but its hard for me to enjoy the game as it is so hopefully things will get changed/polished soon.
 

FoughtDragon01

Ask me about my Mileena agenda.
Once the top tiers remember that we're not in MKX anymore, this'll be an easy 10/10 from me.

And give Johnny some viable KBs for Christ's sake.
 

xKMMx

Banned
You have a point I tend to agree with when you say the characters feel unfinished and gutted. I'm wondering if such a heavy emphasis being put on the look of the game made the move sets suffer. Like they didn't have enough time to really polish the actual game play aspect. I think the game is a lot of fun still but it doesn't really suck me in and make me want to grind on it for hours like MKX did. I wonder if NRS being aware of this issue means they are going to take extra time and effort on DLC and give them more expansive move sets> if so that's going to piss off every one I ever played in MKX that sent me hate for being a Predator main.
 

CrimsonShadow

Administrator and Community Engineer
Administrator
Everything considered, if it’s a straight up yes or no question I’d go with no, but it’s not as clean cut as that.

I’ve had the game for almost a month now, and I think I’m finally over the new car smell of the game and I’m not liking what I’m seeing if things don’t get adjusted.

The game imo is shallow, if you’re only sticking to tourney presets it’s painfully shallow and just about everyone feels too simple.

Custom moves fixes some aspects where you can equip moves to enhance the way you want to play (more combo routes, more zoning/anti-Zoning, safer options, more options for mix like command grabs and stances etc) but honestly even with custom I think it’s still too simple but at least it’ll be more fun and exporation can be a big factor and more worthwhile.

Movesets are too gutted. They need 2 or 3 more strings universally, adjust some specials set to abilities to be universal.
Outside of Sonya and Geras everyone just feels like they werent fully done.

I dont understand this new hard-on fighting games have with “neutral” but I realized after SFV and now MK11 than I’m not a fan of this approach.
Making every other aspect garbage just so people are finally forced to walk around and whiff punish thinking they’re hot shit is not my idea of a good game.
Look at tekken or SC or even KoF, you can keep all the options strong and useful and still have “neutral” as a very important part of the game.
Movement and spacing are always a big part no matter how crazy the tools are, you don’t have to make everything ass so people will play more footsies.
You’re glad that people are more grounded and you can play “neutral” whiff punish? Well no shit coz that’s all you can do now as everything else sucks.

Jumps are just straight up awful, they’re overly floaty and slow and can’t jump over anything, yet jump kicks are still stupid and needlessly hard to anti air.
90% of movesets are unsafe or crazy negative limiting the already small movesets even more.
Throws are too good as it is, at least half of any match is just throws. Them beating pokes is still annoying, I get why they did it but I still don’t like it.
Pokes need to be more plus on hit, if you don’t have a good mid it’s almost stupid if they dont mash d1.
This along with how throws are just makes the game very mashy and messy upclose.

So many hitboxes are sloppy and need adjustments, Kollector’s u2 straight up doesnt work, Erron’s f32 hits behind him, Jacqui’s KB anti airs behind her, Liu’s throw makes d2s magically whiff etc.

Krushing blow requirements are all over the place, some you’ll rarely see coz of overly specific and pointless restrictions like Johnny’s camera and glasses KBs and Kollector’s mace KB when others like Geras can get all of his almost every match.
I love KBs but some requirements definitely need some tweaking.
They also need to add a setting for them in training, I’m so sick of having to do Jacqui’s full clinch rotation just to try out one combo.

I’ll end it by saying this, I don’t think the game is bad, in fact the game is super good and has a crazy amount of potential, but personally I don’t see myself sticking with it if custom variations don’t get added so I can play my character the way I want them to because 16bit’s “tourney presets” are trash.


I hate saying it because not only was I hype over the roof for the game (I was scouring for almost 8 hours on the day the game arrived here to get it asap) and I’ve been helping many players from other games learn the game, but its hard for me to enjoy the game as it is so hopefully things will get changed/polished soon.
Neutral-based gameplay isn’t a new thing. It’s what many historically popular fighting games are based around. If you want something crazier, you can always play anime titles, etc., but it’s not categorically a bad thing just because it’s not your cup of tea. Different strokes for different folks.

You also said that jump-ins are both useless and OP within two sentences of each other. Huh?

Your jump-in is a read. It has to be spaced/timed, and it’s best done while your opponent is about to do something else. MK11’s jump ins are fine for that purpose.

This game is the opposite of mashy. If you can’t blow someone up who’s mashing normals, you aren’t making the right decision at the right time. But with the frames on everything, you’re free to block and blow it up, walk back and blow it up, or throw, short hop if you’re feeling frisky, d1~special, etc.

“I can’t play this game like I played that other game” is one of the more questionable forms of criticism imo.
 
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Samsara

Resident Cynic
Variation system was botched and incomplete at release. Some variations are good by the sheer strength of a single move, while others are just slapped together with a quirky name. A lot of custom moves are just plain garbage too.

It feels like NRS doesnt want to encourage creativity with how you play a character. Everything is so regimented. Character depth and execution has been replaced with R.P.S mindgames baked into the core of the game.

Getting thrown? That's a guess mate. Trying to wakeup? Pick your poison and I'll pick mine, brother. Oh sweet combo bro but I'll think I'll drop out. Barely negative after a string? Poke again, throw, D2... who cares!

My biggest concern is that a lot of characters lost what made them iconic just for the sake of being easier to balance for NRS.

Sub lost clone because NRS never figured out how to balance Sub Zero in MKX and didnt wanna deal with it again. Sub lost EVERY SINGLE ONE OF HIS DEFENSIVE MOVES just so he could become a basic bitch 50/50 machine.

I don't understand why D'Vorah has to give up cancels when that's what made her unique as a high execution pressure character, but Sonya gets to have borderline unfair ERC nonsense in the corner?

Just a lot of headscratchers imo.
 
Overall I'm enjoying the game a lot. I'd just like to see highs improved. It's too easy to just duck under and mash. It's basically a contest of who has the better mid/low.

I'm gonna keep faith in NRS to balance this all out. Combo breaker is coming up really soon so we should see a balance patch not long after
 

M2Dave

Zoning Master
Movement and spacing are always a big part no matter how crazy the tools are, you don’t have to make everything ass so people will play more footsies.
To be fair to NRS, the community has backed them into the corner. If offense (i.e., Mortal Kombat X) is strong, people complain. If zoning and defense (i.e., Injustice 2) are strong, people complain. So they attempted to design a game that mostly revolves around footsies, mild offensive options, and a little bit of zoning.

On the other hand, I agree with you about many gameplay aspects being weak, boring, and shallow, which is why players are massively switching to the current S tier characters because those characters are not only the best ones but also the most fun. My point transcends tiers, though. In a fighting game like Tekken 7, you can use a mid tier character and get a lot of satisfaction. In Mortal Kombat 11, if you use a mid tier character, you probably have limited, if any, combo potential. Your krushing blows have nonsensical and/or impractical requirements. Most of your strings are unsafe (or barely safe) and/or consist of nothing but high attacks that can be low poked.
 

TrulyAmiracle

Loud and Klear~
Neutral-based gameplay isn’t a new thing. It’s what many historically popular fighting games are based around. If you want something crazier, you can always play anime titles, etc., but it’s not categorically a bad thing just because it’s not your cup of tea. Different strokes for different folks.

You also said that jump-ins are both useless and OP within two sentences of each other. Huh?

Your jump-in is a read. It has to be spaced/timed, and it’s best done while your opponent is about to do something else. MK11’s jump ins are fine for that purpose.

This game is the opposite of mashy. If you can’t blow someone up who’s mashing normals, you aren’t making the right decision at the right time. But with the frames on everything, you’re free to block and blow it up, walk back and blow it up, or throw, short hop if you’re feeling frisky, d1~special, etc.

“I can’t play this game like I played that other game” is one of the more questionable forms of criticism imo.
As i said neutral is part of any fg, but when it’s the main focus of how they design the game is where you see everything being toned down to the point of almost not being there.

I said jumps themselves are awful, as a maneuver and trying to get over stuff like fireballs you’re almost always gonna get clipped coz they’re ass.
Jump in kicks are still super good and anti airing them is tough even if you know it’s coming.

The game is mashy if you don’t have a good mid, if I don’t have a good mid like Kotal for example and i hit a d1, the opponent is 100% gonna mash a d1 back because i can’t stop it outside of doing a d1 again coz I don’t have a mid, especially outside of throw range which is why i said d1s should be more plus.
Hops get clipped by d1s so only thing frisky there is you getting floated.

I didn’t say it should play as any other game, the ones I listed were simply examples of games that are neutral focused without gutting everything.
The current top tier contenders are there because they ignore the forced neutral the game is designed around.
Sonya just does braindead mix nonstop with zoning that rivals the “dedicated” zoners, Sub is just 50/50 city with few iceballs to remind you it’s still Sub, Scorp just goes crazy coz the opponent is holding block all match afraid of the teleport and Geras does whatever he wants because you’re gonna get KB’d if you try to breathe.

Now what will happen here? NRS is gonna murk these characters and they’ll have to do the walk around and whiff punish game then d1/throw upclose coz they dared to escape the full gutting.
Without custom variations characters will end up all having a similar gameplan and personally I don’t find that very fun which is why I said what I said.
Hopefully I’m wrong and the next patches change up things so we’ll see soon enough.
 
Reactions: JTC

Edmund

Kitana & Skarlet
I think my disconnect is that I keep playing MK11 as if it were MKX.

I'm trying to focus more on baiting out stuff to punish with combos, and on more space control but it's difficult! Harder than I thought.
 
Scorpion feels so out of place in the game, Everytime he jumps you have to guess whether he'll complete the jump in, teleport/exteleport, or tele port cancel. He recovers insanely fast on the teleport cancel and you are still in a guessing game if you read the teleport cancel because you can't outright punish it. It completely bypasses the footsies game and enforces his game plan on you. I really have 0 enjoyment playing against the character even if I'm winning it. My footsies and space control feel irrelevant
 

M2Dave

Zoning Master
Sonya just does braindead mix nonstop with zoning that rivals the “dedicated” zoners...
She has a projectile that is superior to Noob's spirit ball, and Noob was advertised as a "premier zoning character" in the Kombat Kast. LOL.

Forget the zoning, though. I would be more pissed off if I used Kano or Kotal Kahn. These two characters have slow mid attacks to compensate for the fact that they have a command grab, yet Geras, who has a command grab that is better than either Kano's or Kotal Kahn's because of its range and wall carry, has an 11F mid attack that leads to a launcher or krushing blow. The attack also ticks into the command grab. LOL. What?
 

TrulyAmiracle

Loud and Klear~
She has a projectile that is superior to Noob's spirit ball, and Noob was advertised as a "premier zoning character" in the Kombat Kast. LOL.

Forget the zoning, though. I would be more pissed off if I used Kano or Kotal Kahn. These two characters have slow mid attacks to compensate for the fact that they have a command grab, yet Geras, who has a command grab that is better than either Kano's or Kotal Kahn's because of its range and wall carry, has an 11F mid attack that leads to a launcher or krushing blow. The attack also ticks into the command grab. LOL. What?
Yeah Sonya is my most disliked atm, MKX style mixups and damage and topped off with zoning good enough that I have to come to her just to get mixed to death.

Geras is dumb but at he still plays MK11, he just does it really well.
 

Ram

Buluc Chabtan
Tomorrow, MK11 will be 2 weeks old. I'm going to go ahead and suggest something blasphemous...
Perhaps we don't know everything yet? Maybe more time is needed to explore the "weak" characters and develop counter-strategies against the "strong" characters? I understand that some characters seem more "complete" and "well-equipped" than others, but can we just spend more time exploring the game before claiming to fully understand which characters are good and which are not? Isn't this the "proper" way to deal with a brand new game?
 
I am enjoying fighting as and playing against characters that stick to the meta. For everyone else, the usual questions arise for why they can do what they do. I don't want every character to be the same, obviously. It's just that given their other tools and they supposed playstyles, I want to know what justified some of these decisions.

Why does Sonya, a rushdown 50/50 beast, have one of the best projectiles in the game? It can be argued she should have no projectile at all.

Why does Scorpion have a mid-hitting, amplifyable on block, cancelable, doable in air teleport?

Why does Sub-Zero have a low/overhead mixup, the low option being completely safe, meterless, and leads right back into the vortex? Guessing right on the low is the least satisfying shit.

Why does Geras exist?
 
im little late to the party.
i dont understand, why are you people calling crushing blow such "innovation" and what not? NRS literally stole "rage arts" from tekken 7. its the same mechanic. LITERALLY.