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Strategy A Discussion of Kenshi's Bad/Even/Advantage MU's.

WayoftheFist

WayoftheFist

Cold day in hell...
GGA Dizzy said:
Yeah man, he only blows up non-viable in tournament fish like Kitana, Cage, Liu Kang, Ermac, Sub, Rain, and Sektor. Why even count them in the MU chart, who even plays these garbage characters?

Thats not how tier lists work. An example is 3S, Chun-Li is #1 because she destroys 75% of the cast, yet she has a 4-6 with the #2 character. Having disadvantage match(es) doesn't let you ignore the rest of the MU chart.

I realize this is a disadvantage/even MU thread, I just wanted to refute that fallacy.

Please proceed.
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Very good points. Your statement also shows the very odd place Kenshi is at in this game. Even the A/A+ tier struggles while his own tier gives him a lot of trouble. My only point is can he really be the #2 character in the game when he is at a disadvantage in potentially 5-7 matchups that just so happen to be against some of the most common characters you will see in a tournament? Nobody doubts Kenshi is very good I just think this idea some people have about him about him being some kind of indestructable monster is based mostly on a limited view they have from their own chosen character instead of the big picture.
 
Zoidberg747

Zoidberg747

My blades will find your heart
WayoftheFist said:
Very good points. Your statement also shows the very odd place Kenshi is at in this game. Even the A/A+ tier struggles while his own tier gives him a lot of trouble. My only point is can he really be the #2 character in the game when he is at a disadvantage in potentially 5-7 matchups that just so happen to be against some of the most common characters you will see in a tournament? Nobody doubts Kenshi is very good I just think this idea some people have about him about him being some kind of indestructable monster is based mostly on a limited view they have from their own chosen character instead of the big picture.
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Other than Kabal being #1 the whole top 5 is always up for grabs. We know who is top 5 but the order is anybodies guess.
 
Under_The_Mayo

Under_The_Mayo

Master of Quanculations
FrothyOmen said:
I have not and do not plan on reading this entire thread. But, based on the OP alone, there is no way that Smoke has an advantage in the Kenshi matchup. That is very, very fair and even. I don't claim to be a top-level or even a high-level smoke player, but in my sets with Pig and A F0xy Grampa online neither of them played the matchup at ALL like you described in the OP. The Kenshi strategy you explain in the OP will indeed be beaten handily by Smoke, but I do not believe it is the correct way to play the matchup.

Foxy, if you read this, do you think you could explain your approach to Smoke further, as Kenshi? Yours is far and away the best I've ever played besides Pig's up to this point.
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I said 5 5 for a very long time in the kenshi smoke matchup. But after looking at their tools side by side, I feel that Smoke limits kenshi more than the other way around. Though that can change with screen positioning. So I changed my mind to slight advantage, and decided to stick with it as soon as Pig admitted smoke`s advantage after his session with Gross.

As for my "strategy" easily being beaten, I`m not here pronouncing deep strategy. It`s more of a layout of things you have to look out for and can cause you trouble, and a couple of pointers. I`ll leave in depth matchup discussion for somewhere else. I know very well how to play the smoke matchup and it`s a very fun fight, albeit awkward.
 
Chongo

Chongo

Dead Kings Rise
Under_The_Mayo said:
I listed it as even possibly disadvantage for just that reason. People want to shout out anything from 4 6 to 5 5 to 6 4 at random.
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I would have something constructive to say, but Wonder Shit said a lot of what I was going to say. Sorry, just saw the period joke Foxy made and had to laugh ;_;.
 
Peckapowa

Peckapowa

Champion
raiden loses to kenshi for sure... smoke might be even or even in his favor and skarlet might be in his flavor.... i think he has atleast 3 bad matchups for sure but ive even heard arguements he goes even with freddy

these are my humble opinions.
 
Blind_Ducky

Blind_Ducky

Princess of the Sisterhood
Just wondering if anyone has thought about whether or not this is practical. Using ex rising karma on reaction to a teleport from kung lao? Anybody feel like that may possibly work or am I retarded? I know that if he did an ex teleport and you do ex rk you're fucked and idk I'm just wondering if anyone thinks this is a decent idea or not. Under_The_Mayo Blackula

Also reo posted a video about Kenshi's reflect glitch when he reflects kabals iagb and kabal dashes up to him. I hate to be that guy that says I've known about this before but at SCR me and daddydab32ho were playing and we had this happen. In the video reo explains it in a way that makes it sound like this only affects kabal but from what I think I know the reflect has invincibility frames when it is recovering when you successfully reflect, which is why kabals dash stops or any other attack just doesn't hit Kenshi after a successful reflect. Everyone in here probably already knew that but whatever.

Lalalalalalala I don't think I have anything else worth adding.
 
Blackula

Blackula

I SEE EVERYTHING!
Kenshi / Kung Lao = 5/5. Once you take away his teleport, what else does he have? And if you're going to play Kenshi, you MUST know how to deal with his teleport. But once you do, this matchup becomes quite easy.

Blind_Man, why waste meter when you can learn how to deal with teleport without meter and take 28% from Kung Lao (25% for easy damage)?
 
Obs_SmSwag

Obs_SmSwag

"I have good taste because I like what I like"
Blackula said:
Kenshi / Kung Lao = 5/5. Once you take away his teleport, what else does he have? And if you're going to play Kenshi, you MUST know how to deal with his teleport. But once you do, this matchup becomes quite easy.

Blind_Man, why waste meter when you can learn how to deal with teleport without meter and take 28% from Kung Lao (25% for easy damage)?
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I think it could be 5-5, but Kenshi does have an extremely juicy hitbox. I'm hesitant to call it a 5-5 at risk of being labeled as a downplayer, but if a few more Laos get their asses kicked by you and pig i'll change my mind.

PS: Fuck everybody who think it's 6-4 now after a top player says it...
 
Blind_Ducky

Blind_Ducky

Princess of the Sisterhood
Blackula I know how to deal with the teleport without meter but I was suggesting the ex RK just as a potentially viable option. (also I feel like that sentence sounded like I was trying to sound like an ass, I'm not but when I read it, it just sounds kinda mean but I'm not trying to be and yeah). Kenshi Lao is 6-4 Lao. Obs_SmSwag the only reason Pig or I didn't feel that way is because we didn't know the mu as well as we do now. Lao still has f3 and whiffed dive kicks to get in and there is no 100% way to get out of Laos teleport every time. He has a 50/50 with either delayed or instant 3 plus his other options when he teleports.
 
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