Also kenshi is forced to block EX spear attempts for the most part because he can't crouch them. So 111 ex spear mixed with 111 b2, 111 f4 and even 111 jip is a pretty valid tactic against him. He is forced to use armor if he want's to stop the pressure (or block correctly) and JIP will beat armor tackle IIRC.
Also kenshi is forced to block EX spear attempts for the most part because he can't crouch them. So 111 ex spear mixed with 111 b2, 111 f4 and even 111 jip is a pretty valid tactic against him. He is forced to use armor if he want's to stop the pressure (or block correctly) and JIP will beat armor tackle IIRC.
Shoulder is 8f and stops point blank cross overs, he can interupt alot of stuff here.
Personally I'd just shoulder the shit out of a Scorpion player until they started doing Ex spears. Its not my risk thats being forced.
Shoulder is 8f and stops point blank cross overs, he can interupt alot of stuff here.
Personally I'd just shoulder the shit out of a Scorpion player until they started doing Ex spears. Its not my risk thats being forced.
Oh I see, I haven't played in a very long time but 111 doesn't leave you at point blank. Will it stop a jip after 111 for sure? Still though I know he has to respect the spear option if he doesn't use armor.
Oh I see, I haven't played in a very long time but 111 doesn't leave you at point blank. Will it stop a jip after 111 for sure? Still though I know he has to respect the spear option if he doesn't use armor.
I meant more along the lines of buffering shoulders after the first 1 in the string, if he tries to stagger strings or cross over he wont be able to, all he can do is poke.
Shoulder should beat every option Scorp has after a blocked 111 though, other than maybe a jump and obviously armour.
A big weakness to Scorpion against Kenshi is that they essentially have the same 5050 footsie game
Scorp - B2 and F4
Kenshi - F3 and B2
Just that Kenshi is safe and has alot more range and can block confirm into Ex shoulder for +7.
Shoulder is not my main tool against Kung Lao. Spacing is my main tool. As long as Kenshi is in motion, Kung Lao can never teleport against him unless he decides to use EN teleport. Because if I'm in motion and you teleport, you've just allowed me to create my space to punish your teleport easily without having to worry about the attacks all together to punish you for 28%.
And from full screen, you can guarantee I will be doing lots of teleflurries and TK slashes. Throw a hat, I'll reflect it. Try to whiff a dive kick to get in, I will spirit charge you back to full screen.
in theory kung lao should never be able to do teleport 3 like that, but thats in theory. if you take one option away by focusing on it you will always open up another option, teleport is not his only mobility tool, you have the dive kick and roll as well. if you completely focus on one or two tools a character has it will even open up the option of simply walking forward or dashing forward.
in theory kung lao should never be able to do teleport 3 like that, but thats in theory. if you take one option away by focusing on it you will always open up another option, teleport is not his only mobility tool, you have the dive kick and roll as well. if you completely focus on one or two tools a character has it will even open up the option of simply walking forward or dashing forward.
I meant more along the lines of buffering shoulders after the first 1 in the string, if he tries to stagger strings or cross over he wont be able to, all he can do is poke.
Shoulder should beat every option Scorp has after a blocked 111 though, other than maybe a jump and obviously armour.
A big weakness to Scorpion against Kenshi is that they essentially have the same 5050 footsie game
Scorp - B2 and F4
Kenshi - F3 and B2
Just that Kenshi is safe and has alot more range and can block confirm into Ex shoulder for +7.
Takedown is also a valid option after 111 that kenshi should respect. Granted the damage isn't that great but it's a nice add on that people don't want to eat after landing a combo into 111 pressure.
IMO hellfire and AA spear should be the main gameplan mid to far range with the occasional EX spear to counter zoning, this is why using his throw when close is good for this matchup (I use this against characters like cage and sonya as well minus the ex spear). At footsie range I think kenshi does have the advantage considering his options are safe but ex spear is pretty much always a threat because he cannot crouch it.
I agree with most of the in-depth explanations you made, those were pretty nice. I want to say that Skarlet vs Kenshi is an even match-up though because Skarlet can't really do much without meter, and Kenshi zones her well. Teleports and empty red dashes can be easily blown up by Kenshi and it is pretty difficult for Skarlet to get in and start her rushdown and Kenshi.
I don't really know much about the Smoke vs Kenshi match-up so I can't really say anything, but something just makes me want to say that is an even match-up as well. When Kenshi has the life lead, he can just sit back and wait for Smoke to come in because Smoke can't do anything from full-screen
I agree with most of the in-depth explanations you made, those were pretty nice. I want to say that Skarlet vs Kenshi is an even match-up though because Skarlet can't really do much without meter, and Kenshi zones her well. Teleports and empty red dashes can be easily blown up by Kenshi and it is pretty difficult for Skarlet to get in and start her rushdown and Kenshi.
I don't really know much about the Smoke vs Kenshi match-up so I can't really say anything, but something just makes me want to say that is an even match-up as well. When Kenshi has the life lead, he can just sit back and wait for Smoke to come in because Smoke can't do anything from full-screen
Basically yeah. Smoke obviously wins from full screen, but you don't have to let him stay full screen. Once he is backed up into the corner he is in for some trouble haha
Basically yeah. Smoke obviously wins from full screen, but you don't have to let him stay full screen. Once he is backed up into the corner he is in for some trouble haha
freddy can double spike him at full screen/midscreen without kenshi being able to do shit and kenshi has a bad dash speed and freddy isnt even worth reflecting at fullscreen and its too hard to do on reaction at midscreen... freddy probably wins 6-4
freddy can double spike him at full screen/midscreen without kenshi being able to do shit and kenshi has a bad dash speed and freddy isnt even worth reflecting at fullscreen and its too hard to do on reaction at midscreen... freddy probably wins 6-4
How can Freddy spike him twice for free? Spike is what? -16? Kenshi has a good forward dash and bad back dash. You haven't seen the way I reflect projectiles. I still think Freddy wins but not BARELY and not for the reasons you stated.
Kenshi's design is one that is very hard to lockdown.
He's a character that has play styles that vary wildly depending on the matchup. It's what makes him so boring to watch in some matches, and then so thrilling to watch in others. For example, Kenshi vs Shang, Kenshi vs Kabal, Kenshi vs Smoke. All very exciting matches. .. People like to say Kenshi is top 2 because he bodies 60% of the cast. We all know about the horror of Jade, Sub Zero, Kitana, Cage, Liu Kang, and that leads to many players jumping to conclusions about how good he really is overall. But they forget how many challenging matchups he truly has. I'm not here to downplay. Us Kenshi players freely admit how overpowered we are in some matchups. I'm not here for that. I'm here to talk realistically about the other side of our character.
So I'm going to throw this thread out there. First, I don't want to hear about Lao or Kabal being possible 5 - 5 matchups. On paper, comparing the tools, and taking high hitboxes into account and everything, at the end of the day, these matches are disadvantage for Kenshi. Whether it's slight or significant is a matter of opinion, but people are way too quick to let matchups be determined by how well one player or another is playing that matchup at any given moment. If a Baraka player comes along and beats every Kenshi player for a year, it does NOT change the matchup numbers. It only means that he's outplaying his opponent, and maybe...MAYBE.. he's just fuckin better.
I WILL NOT be using numbers like 6 - 4 or 7 -3 in anyone's favor due to the following reasons: - Kenshi's strange anti-footsies design that forces everyone to fight so differently - The fact that a lot of damage comes from lucky Spirit Charge jumps - Matchups that dramatically change depending on being at midscreen or in the corner - The dramatic effect of stage size in all matchups
That being said, here is my opinion on Kenshi's "serious time" matchups.
_____________________________________________
He has at least 5 losing matchups. I'm not going to get into the numbers games, but speaking honestly we can say for sure that comparing tools against tools, he technically loses against: - Kabal, Kung Lao, Smoke, Freddy, and Skarlett
Kabal
We all know how this goes. Kenshi does have some great tools in this matchup, especially in the corner. However Kabal so easily escapes the corner. Since Kabal's zoning overpowers Kenshi's, and good unpredictable (and disciplined) NDC pressure can build a lot of meter, Kabal can manage his meter well enough to breaker out of the corner into a free Nomad Dash out. IAGB wins trade against Flurry. Dash goes through Flurry and also makes TKSlash very very risky. Multiple NDCs at fullscreen and midscreen can make movements very unpredictable, sometimes shutting down the SC interruptions of Nomad Dashes, into an EX Dash blowing up a SC. Kenshi has to be constantly on the offensive here. And very smart. If you can limit Kabal's meter, get him cornered, you can definitely take control. You should know the holes in Kabal's offense like B1 2 where you can armor out. In a perfect world, it could be 5 - 5. But simply the fact that Kabal technically has a block infinite on Kenshi's high hitbox means that this will never be even.
Kung Lao
Lao has the perfect combinations of 4 vulnerabilities of Kenshi. Mobility, fast High-hitbox-exploiting pressure, randomness, and air teleporting. One of the main things that makes Kenshi so good is his air control. Lao takes that away by being able to air teleport during any jump, freeing up his jump ins to not get SC'd. And when you do try to SC, and he teleports, you're gonna pay the price in a full combo. Speaking of combos, this match increased in difficulty once Lao players upped their combo damage from 33% to damn near 48% every time they hit you. Teleport 3 exploits Kenshi's high hitbox and puts Kenshi into another guessing game of how to escape it. Will he instant tele3? Delayed? After it, will he go for a block string. spin, or jump over into another tele3 or a crossover punch? Sure, everyone has to deal with this, but since Kenshi's special attacks do not move him AT ALL, he's stuck with very limited options. And a wrong guess means death. Lao also exploits Kenshi's lack of mobility by having a very high random factor at any moment. You need a lot of good reads, patience, discipline, and execution to take this match. If you can make the Lao player actually have to stop and THINK about what he's doing, then you're winning.
Smoke
One of the most awkward matches in the entire game. At fullscreen, Smoke has a VERY clear advantage, since smoke bomb wins all trades against Slash and Flurry. Smoke also takes huge damage with his resets from a jumped SC. Kenshi's normals are also not fast enough to punish a blocked smoke bomb, leaving your only punish options as a block string into pressure, throw, or SC which sends him back to fullscreen and that sucks. Kenshi's corner game is really good against Smoke, so you gotta get him there. In my opinion, you have to be willing to throw a Flurry out there once in a while when you have meter for a future breaker, just to stop him from teleporting away so much. Be ready to 1 1 RK punish whiffed air teleport punches, and when you get the life lead stay back and let him come to you.
Freddy
This fight is super annoying. Freddy wins the spamming war hands down. You can NOT win this fullscreen (unless the Freddy player's controller is broken). You need to understand Freddy's frame traps and get his punk ass to the corner. There's not a lot to be said otherwise. Watch out for wakeup ground spike because Freddy takes a lot of damage. Shut down his projectile game, and you'll shut him down all together.
Skarlett
I'll openly admit that I don't know this matchup as well as I should, but she has 4 things that give Kenshi trouble. High-hitbox-exploitation (like nobody else), super armor that beats EX SC, randomness, and crazy mobility. This is a character you need to STUDY. When is she plus? When is she negative? Be very careful trying to EX SC through her wakeup attacks because she will win. Get good at your anti-crossover D1 so that you don't have to burn meter because you might need that for breaker. You need good spacing, good reactions, and God help you if you're stuck in the corner, my friend.
_____________________________________________
Matches that he goes even in (5 - 5) or POSSIBLY loses against: - Cyrax and Reptile. (I'm not going to side either way due to random factors of these MMs and just the raw power of Kenshi in particular situations like in the corner.)
Cyrax
Another unusual fight. Kenshi really has a lot of tools to properly deal with Cyrax. Flurries, SC, and Slash are all very fast and can all interrupt his net/bomb game, but bad timing can get yourself stuck in a net taking huge damage. Fortunately, Kenshi doesn't need his meter that much in this match. You can manage your meter and use EX SC to armor through bomb/net traps at mid/fullscreen if you get trapped. And you can save it for breaker. NEVER throw out RK on block. Try to frustrate Cyrax if you can. Reflect nets when you're comfortable (this will vary player to player) because it's free meter for you, and it reduces Cyrax's meter gain significantly. (Net builds 6%, while blocked net builds 15%). Be ready to punish a random teleport with 1 1 RK if it happens, and if you get him to the corner you're gonna have to make a good decision between EX SCing his wakeup or walking back to bait a wakeup fairy jump. (AA punish for Cyrax in the corner is 30% - 2, F2 2 B1, D1 RK, 3 Flurry, D1 SC). If this match takes all 90 seconds to win, so be it.
Reptile
A lot of controversy surrounds this matchup. Anything from 4 - 6 to 6 - 4. And that just about sums the whole thing up. This matchup is RANDOM. And as you've already read, randomness is a Kenshi vulnerability. Reptile has the ability to be fast and unpredictable with his movements. He's extremely mobile, which makes him hard to lock down. Reptiles dash shuts down Flurry/Slash zoning pressure for the most part, but SC is a great way to shut down Reptile's Dash mobility. It's just hard to know what's gonna happen at any moment. But that goes for both characters. Kenshi's reflect can be baited by EX Forceball cancels, so try not to get tricked. Reflect is an option, but it's not always the best option. Watch Reptile's meter. And always be ready to punish a dash. You won't win simply by punishing dashes, but if you don't punish it when it happens you're going to lose this.
_____________________________________________
Matches that are most arguably 5 - 5: - Raiden and Noob.
Raiden
While I would say that Raiden is not that great of a character, he does has one of the best mobility tools for dealing with Kenshi's zoning pressure. The teleport. With good reads, Raiden can really lay the hurt on Kenshi. Kenshi isn't like Sonya. If Sonya EX Cartwheels through Raiden's block strings, and Raiden teleports, she's gone. But Kenshi's EX moves leave him in one place, waiting for full combo punishment. On the other hand, Kenshi's SC and zoning pressure put Raiden into a very compromising position where his only way in is through teleporting or lucky jumping. If you read a teleport, you can punish with 1 1 RK. This works wonderfully because it can be hit confirmed into a block string if he blocks, and if he jumps, the 1 1 will AA and you can confirm into RK. This forces Raiden to teleport into a low poke, block, or a risky armored move. Once he can't go into pressure from teleporting, you can change to a quick SC punish. If you read a jump after a teleport, NJP him into a 31% combo (NJP, RK, Uppercut, F3 2 SC).
Noob
It feel horrible to say your top-tier character goes 5 - 5 with Noob Saibot, but the reality is that this character just gives Kenshi trouble on a very basic level. He out spams him like Freddy does, but in a more stupid way. Every shadow from long distance knocks your down in a trade, while he stays standing, forcing your to respect the overhead/low mixup on wakeup as another shadow comes at you. Since Kenshi's wakeup reflect glitches out and simply doesn't work, you have no choice but to block the shadow and go from there. Using SC is a bit of a horrible feeling, since you're sending Noob fullscreen again where he has a clear advantage over you. This matchup is severely dictated by screen positioning. If you're mid stage against Noob, you're in for trouble. If you have him cornered, he has no hope.
_____________________________________________
Matches that are advantage for Kenshi, but are seriously dependent on who has meter at what time, guessing, and the size of the stage. -Sonya, Jax, Shang, and Scorpion
Sonya
A matchup these seems horrible for Sonya at a glance, there are conditions that can put Kenshi in a seriously compromising position. You don't want to be on a small stage against her, that's for sure. You gotta keep this woman away from you. Fullscreen zoning is your best friend. If you're comboing her, and she has breaker, just SC her to put her fullscreen. You don't want her to ever have a chance of getting near you. She takes big damage into pressure resets. And if she thinks you're going to SC or frame trap her, one EX Cartwheel means goodnight blind man. Onion rings can be reflected easily. A distanced blocked dive kick can be SC'd to fullscreen positioning. It's all about positioning. Zone her. And when she gets in, which she will, be very very very careful. You can't rely on your old tricks like F2 2 B2 SC because you'll get blown up by her armor. She's gonna try to get in your head. Respond by being unpredictable.
Jax
Mr. "I've been buffed 8 times" has a few things going for him in this matchup, even though it's clearly not in his favor. He has a fast advancing armor move that takes like 17% to blast through your zoning. He exploits your high hitbox, though he doesn't take much damage midscreen. He'll pummel you death in the corner if you don't have meter to armor out. You can reflect his projectile easily, and you can calmly zone him at fullscreen. If he gets ground-pound cancel happy, take it as your key to move in with F3 and F2 and SC. I think Slashes are better than Flurries in this matchup to deal with distanced GPs and GP cancels. You are the one in control of this matchup, but as soon as you take it for granted you're gonna "get some".
Shang
Everyone saw Pig versus WoundCowboy. Shang MUST be respected in this matchup. Since Kenshi has zero mobility on his specials, it leaves him wide open to ground skulls. And since Shang can wake up with EX Ground Skull, it definitely limits your options on long distance pressure on wakeup. If it becomes hard to get in on him, hitting him with SC just sends him fullscreen where things can become a problem. His Soul Steal outranges your SC and is +1 on block. You do NOT want to be dealing with Uber Kenshi dealing out 16% EX SC's everywhere. Try to get in on your terms and use your mixups wisely. B2 is good putting you at neutral. Get him to the corner. But do not let yourself get put into the corner.
Scorpion
You have to respect Scorpion a bit here. Since all of Kenshi's specials are grounded, it leaves you open to multiple Hellfires. That's what Scorpion wants. He wants you to get frustrated from Hellfires so you start jumping. You know that Scorpion is a wildcard so once you're in the vortex, it could be game over. If he gets a good read on your patterns, get ready to get EX Speared through your zoning. If he wants to use meter he can take 50% or more in the corner, so know your spacing. Don't get too carried away. Be ready to punish hard if you block him. You still have the advantage here overall. But always remember that he has a good randomness factor to him that could bite you in the ass.
_____________________________________________
I will not be discussing any further matchups due to me simply not having the experience or Kenshi just blowing other characters up. These are the characters I feel have the best chance against Kenshi. Feel free to disagree and discuss below. I'm sure there will be plenty of people disagreeing on who is advantage/even/disadvantage, but I feel my analysis of how each match plays is pretty accurate. But if anyone wants me to add or change something, please inform me and I'll take it under consideration.
Given all these matchups, my opinion is that Kenshi is around number 4 or 5 on the tier list. I'm sure plenty will disagree. But if we give him 5 bad (disadvantage/slight disadvantage) matchups, 2 possible disadvantage, and a few even matchups, he does not sit as comfortably at the top as some other characters. Even though he crushes many other members of the cast.
Thanks for reading! Now, who wants a narrated video version?
