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Player 1 has host advantage

What would make more sense is alternating priority everytime there is a tie. For instance, p1 starts off with priority and wins the first tie. Then the priority is toggled until p2 wins the next tie. Then priority is toggle back to p1. Rinse and repeat. This should be achievable unless the existing architecture just doesn't allow for it.
that would be nice.
 

Juggs

Lose without excuses
Lead Moderator
no, it comes from me playing those games, calling my opinions ignorant is a bit much to be honest.
i know how infins those games work also.
hard execution is no excuse, cyrax's 100%+ combo aren't easy...does that make them ok, no
Excuse for what? Them being hard to execute matters. And them not being practical in a high level match matters too. You're saying "an infinite is an infinite", which is 100% not true and again... ignorant.

Just stop responding.
 

1man3letters

Alpha Tarkatan - Moderator
Moderator
Excuse for what? Them being hard to execute matters. And them not being practical in a high level match matters too. You're saying "an infinite is an infinite", which is 100% not true and again... ignorant.

Just stop responding.
excuse for infins,you said there hard to do and you dont seem them often so its ok,that a bit short sighted
how is "a infinite is a infinite" not true? if its a infinite...its a infinite

im not trying to argue that mk2/umk3 arent good games,there buckets of fun but if they were released tomorrow with the same game mechaines as back then,i doubt theyd be making evo anytime soon,hence why i say mk9 is the 1st "real" tourny game so please sir relax
 

Seapeople

This one's for you
Has all the frame data been compiled from P1 side, P2 side, or a mix of both?

And what happens if P2 does a 7 frame poke on the same frame that P1 does a 6 frame poke? Is the trade random?
 

SunnyD

24 Low Hat!
Saying UMK3 isnt tournie viable nowadays is like saying the First King Kong movie would have sucked if it was released today. It was good for its time.
 

Juggs

Lose without excuses
Lead Moderator
excuse for infins,you said there hard to do and you dont seem them often so its ok,that a bit short sighted
how is "a infinite is a infinite" not true? if its a infinite...its a infinite
It's the exact same as a combo video where someone is doing highly situational 70%+ combos in MK9, and then when someone says they're impractical and you won't see them in a real match, you come in and say "that's an excuse and you're trying to justify these high damaging combos". That's retarded and an argument a 3rd grader would make.

im not trying to argue that mk2/umk3 arent good games,there buckets of fun but if they were released tomorrow with the same game mechaines as back then,i doubt theyd be making evo anytime soon,hence why i say mk9 is the 1st "real" tourny game so please sir relax
Yeah since a game being good is based on whether it's at EVO or not, right?

Anyway, back on topic. If you want to continue this dumb conversation you can PM me.
 

Hitoshura

Head Cage
Im going to say this once and only once. To balance cyrax just make the damage prorate. Make it one LONG combo. It will still do insane damage just wont kill unless u have full meter.

Cyrax is an all or nothing character. Thats what they do. Build meter and do one combo and win. W/o it they loose

The End
 

Dizzy

False Information Police Officer
Elder God
NetherRealm Studios
Has all the frame data been compiled from P1 side, P2 side, or a mix of both?
Frame data isn't effected by this. Saying something is now +1 on the 1 player side that is 0 is misleading. A better use would be saying after something is 0 on block, a 6 frame d1 now must be blocked unless the other player is using KL spin or armor.

Before it was common thought that both players could D1, and it was a trade. Now in a neutral situation P2 essentially has to respect P1's d1 option and block it, as they will never win a trade. P2 going for a d1 in a neutral situation has even less benefit, considering this information. However, if you are P1, you can d1 in a neutral situation knowing that it will beat all unarmored attacks aside from KL spin. Pretty powerful information.
 

Juggs

Lose without excuses
Lead Moderator
Frame data isn't effected by this. Saying something is now +1 on the 1 player side that is 0 is misleading. A better use would be saying after something is 0 on block, a 6 frame d1 now must be blocked unless the other player is using KL spin or armor.
I was thinking this exact thing while listening to the KTP. Nice post Dizzy.
 

aj1701

Champion
Alternating priority every other frame would mean doing 30 if checks per second. It's possible that could slow down the processing enough to lower the framerate.
Nope, it would not. Its a simple true false to determine if p1 has priority or p2 (true p1 does, false means p2 does). Second, the check only needs to be done on the collision detecting, and even then it only needs to be done if p1 and p2 really did hit each other on the exact same frame. Especially with the speed of the processors, such a check is inconsequential. Toggling a bit from 0 to 1 or 1 to 0 is also a non-issue.
 

Enigma642

Apprentice
Nope, it would not. Its a simple true false to determine if p1 has priority or p2 (true p1 does, false means p2 does). Second, the check only needs to be done on the collision detecting, and even then it only needs to be done if p1 and p2 really did hit each other on the exact same frame. Especially with the speed of the processors, such a check is inconsequential.
That's not correct. Something similar to below would have to run 30 times a second:

If player1.priority = true then
Player1.priority = false
Player2.priority = true
Else
Player1.priority = true
Player2.priority = false
End if

The if check during collision that u referred to would be checking the above properties to determine who wins out. But that alone would do nothing without the above code executing every other frame.
 

aj1701

Champion
That's not correct. Something similar to below would have to run 30 times a second:

If player1.priority = true then
Player1.priority = false
Player2.priority = true
Else
Player1.priority = true
Player2.priority = false
End if

The if check during collision that u referred to would be checking the above properties to determine who wins out. But that alone would do nothing without the above code executing every other frame.
I can see you don't program. This is what would run everytime. There's no need to keep that priorty state on the player data; it can be a flag on the engine.

engine.p1Priority = !engine.p1Priority; // The CPU has a command that combines negation and storing into one step; execution time here is irrlevent.

Then the only time that would need to check is during collision, and even then only if p1 and p2 both collide in the same frame.
 

Somberness

Lights
i know p1 is winning most of the time but if p1 really had the advantage shouldn't p2 never win whatsoever?
Yes, I actually think the game has random lag for one player. I asked hanzo if he could record the screen to see when the game was reading the inputs but he couldn't. The game always shows player 1 winning when moves become active on the same frame but it seems like it forces player 1 to go last at times. Every other situation then pressing a button at the same time still applies, it would still be something you have to be aware of. I can't think of any other explanation really.
 

aj1701

Champion
Yes, I actually think the game has random lag for one player. I asked hanzo if he could record the screen to see when the game was reading the inputs but he couldn't. The game always shows player 1 winning when moves become active on the same frame but it seems like it forces player 1 to go last at times. Every other situation then pressing a button at the same time still applies, it would still be something you have to be aware of. I can't think of any other explanation really.
Maybe they tried to alternate priority, but messed up and it only works a small percentage of the time. :)
 

Enigma642

Apprentice
I can see you don't program. This is what would run everytime. There's no need to keep that priorty state on the player data; it can be a flag on the engine.

engine.p1Priority = !engine.p1Priority; // The CPU has a command that combines negation and storing into one step; execution time here is irrlevent.

Then the only time that would need to check is during collision, and even then only if p1 and p2 both collide in the same frame.
That line is definitely more efficient than my if check above. I'm sure you are more knowledgeable on this than me so if you say the toggle would not affect execution time then I can't argue. I wish they would have programmed it in.
 

aj1701

Champion
That line is definitely more efficient than my if check above. I'm sure you are more knowledgeable on this than me so if you say the toggle would not affect execution time then I can't argue. I wish they would have programmed it in.
Ya, its not to say it doesn't take any time at all, as every instruction does, but processors are really good at that sort of thing, so its unlikely to have any measurable impact considering all the other things that go into the game state loop that draws a frame.

I wish they would have programmed it in too, or at least gave p2 something else to make up for it, like they did in the earlier MK games.
 

KH_Captain

Nightwolf wannabe
if this was true then after sindel did a 44 on 1 pl side then the d1 would be pretty much guaranteed afterwards since 44 is neutral and she has a 6frame d1, but I've been beat plenty of times by reptiles dash and kunglaos spin and pokes on 2pl side these are 6 frame moves and if pl 1 has advantage then I would win every time. I'm pretty sure it's random. Just my opinion based on observations.
 

MKK hanzo

Moderator
Im going to say this once and only once. To balance cyrax just make the damage prorate. Make it one LONG combo. It will still do insane damage just wont kill unless u have full meter.

Cyrax is an all or nothing character. Thats what they do. Build meter and do one combo and win. W/o it they loose

The End
Or as simple of not letting him throw 2 nets on a same combo. That isnt hard to code uh?

Sent from my R800i using Tapatalk 2
 

aj1701

Champion
if this was true then after sindel did a 44 on 1 pl side then the d1 would be pretty much guaranteed afterwards since 44 is neutral and she has a 6frame d1, but I've been beat plenty of times by reptiles dash and kunglaos spin and pokes on 2pl side these are 6 frame moves and if pl 1 has advantage then I would win every time. I'm pretty sure it's random. Just my opinion based on observations.
Well remember, we're talking about two moves colliding with each other on the exact same frame. While its possible, its probably not all that likely. I doubt in match that two players would consistently be able to cause collision ties such that this makes much of a difference.