Player 1 has host advantage

[TakeAChance]

Here's the way I look at it. I consider myself a moderately good player. I think I can win games off of great players, but they are for the most part going to beat me.

If I have to deal with: The input bug, Random frame advantage, Laggy stages, Wonky hit/hurt boxes, P1 stage selects, and now P1 priority, why would I spend my money to go to events?

Luckily, my love for this franchise keeps me going...and basically my drive to overcome, but I can see how people who are just getting started or are at the point where they need to seriously level up will just say "fuck it" and move on to something a little less...flawed?

 

[MortySeinfeld]

nvm.

 

[Keep it moist]

nvm.

why did u remove it morty?

 

[Scoot Magee]

The issue is 0 frame moves and block strings. And there are tons and tons of situations that this comes into play, this also effects any character with 6 frame moves and pokes, This changes allot of match ups.

Yeah I understand that I was just giving an example. It's not actual +1 on moves that are 0 on block for player 1. If it was +1 then player 1 would actually be free to move 1 frame before player 2 can do anything which isn't the case. Granted it does guarantee player 1 the win on a trade if player 2 decides to stick something out. So basically it's only +1 if player 2 decides to press a button. It's fucked up though because it forces p2 to respect the options of p1 unless they have some sort of armor or something. So fucking stupid...

I'm sure you understand how it works so I don't know why I'm here ranting about it lol. I guess I'm just showing that I understand what it means.

 

[MortySeinfeld]

why did u remove it morty?

I realized it wasn't a trade, player 1 had some health left at the end of the round.

 

[Temjiin]

This wont be an issue if you're actually better than your opponent you know

I can see why a Cage player would have no objections to this

 

[ZtrideRz]

So this works in pokes too p1 has a 1 frame advantage? Now I know why i lost to other players in mk because I was player 2... So clear now. Get real. All the topic dose is discredit peoples wins. Now every1 will cry about player 1 advantage.. So there is alittle luck. God I hate topics like this. Greats work on frame data som. But I would rarther you didn't find this complete game killer.

 

[Full Boat]

So if P1 does a 7 frame move at the same time P2 does a 6 frame move, who wins?

 

[Sunny54]

Player 2 would still win that trade since the move is active from the 7th frame whereas player 1's move is active from the 8th frame if there was neutral advantage among other factors. Say after Johnny Cage's F3, 2, which is neutral on block, both players go for a 6 frame move Johnny would win that trade if he was player 1. I think that's correct.

 

[Prinz]

Player 2 would still win that trade since the move is active from the 7th frame whereas player 1's move is active from the 8th frame if there was neutral advantage among other factors. Say after Johnny Cage's F3, 2, which is neutral on block, both players go for a 6 frame move Johnny would win that trade if he was player 1. I think that's correct.

If this is true than Prinzmetal is pleased.

 

[VIDA]

The other night me, Shady, and at k-frog did a little run through of this. They went Cage p1 and Kitana p2, so that after a Cage f3 (o on block) both would press d1 at approximately the same time to attempt to initiate a TRUE trade (both d1s are 6 frames). Sometimes Cage's would hit, and sometimes Kitana's. The only time theyre actually ever seemed to be a true trade was when u could see Kitana's d1 animation come out, but get stuffed by Cage.

Now we didnt make exact numbers/statistics, but these seemingly actual trades only happened 4-6 times out of maybe 30-40 tries. Sometimes even Kitana's d3 would hit before Cage's d1 ffs (Kitana's d3 is 7 frames). Point is, its EXTREMELY rare, esp in the heat of a match, that even the highest lvl players will hit their inputs simultaneously enough for any trade mechanic to happen. I havent read everything but it seems like trades only happen DOWN TO THE FRAME. If so, I think that fact and our little run through shows how infrequently actual trades do happen anyway.

Again our testing wasnt super scientific. But the two above players both knew what they were doing. In our opinion, an input going through at the same time with in a 1/60th sec window, has a very low probability/frequency when its focused on and attempted, let alone for an actual competitve match.

Just throwing this out there at least.

 

[NogunYesknife]

The other night me, Shady, and at k-frog did a little run through of this. They went Cage p1 and Kitana p2, so that after a Cage f3 (o on block) both would press d1 at approximately the same time to attempt to initiate a TRUE trade (both d1s are 6 frames). Sometimes Cage's would hit, and sometimes Kitana's. The only time theyre actually ever seemed to be a true trade was when u could see Kitana's d1 animation come out, but get stuffed by Cage.

Now we didnt make exact numbers/statistics, but these seemingly actual trades only happened 4-6 times out of maybe 30-40 tries. Sometimes even Kitana's d3 would hit before Cage's d1 ffs (Kitana's d3 is 7 frames). Point is, its EXTREMELY rare, esp in the heat of a match, that even the highest lvl players will hit their inputs simultaneously enough for any trade mechanic to happen. I havent read everything but it seems like trades only happen DOWN TO THE FRAME. If so, I think that fact and our little run through shows how infrequently actual trades do happen anyway.

Again our testing wasnt super scientific. But the two above players both knew what they were doing. In our opinion, an input going through at the same time with in a 1/60th sec window, has a very low probability/frequency when its focused on and attempted, let alone for an actual competitve match.

Just throwing this out there at least.

Exactly, Trades DO happen, but they happen alot less then top players think. It kind of Irritates me when everyone thinks they just-frame blockstrings 100% of the time.

 

[eskuAdradit0]

Now we didnt make exact numbers/statistics, but these seemingly actual trades only happened 4-6 times out of maybe 30-40 tries. Sometimes even Kitana's d3 would hit before Cage's d1 ffs (Kitana's d3 is 7 frames). Point is, its EXTREMELY rare, esp in the heat of a match, that even the highest lvl players will hit their inputs simultaneously enough for any trade mechanic to happen. I havent read everything but it seems like trades only happen DOWN TO THE FRAME. If so, I think that fact and our little run through shows how infrequently actual trades do happen anyway.

I'd like just to point out that if you check streams or video footage of other fighting games, then you'll see that trades happen more often than you'd think.

 

[VIDA]

I'd like just to point out that if you check streams or video footage of other fighting games, then you'll see that trades happen more often than you'd think.

I do watch and play other games. Again i could be mistaken but it seems the window for general trades in other games is much less strict. Also when a trade happens in those games, most of the time its b/c the slower move is still active and can still go through, its not a TRUE, dow to the frame trade nec.

For example when I played KOF, I would AA with Cr C instead of his DP which had prioity, where the trade wouldnt have mattered. But when I used cr C it AAed, but the jump in would still hit, thus making for a general trade. This always happened when I AAed with cr C. That doesnt mean the moves hit at the exact same time, it just means the cr C didnt have enough priority and the jump in still got through while being AAed, which meant they "traded" in that sense.

This whole rule with MK doesnt apply to things like that, a move will either beat out another move cause it came out before, or b/c it has some sort of prioirty properties etc in situations like that. But the game's ACTUAL trades are the ones that happen exactly down to the frame, which is very rare, even if both players are d1ing right after a neutral move is blocked.

Again Im just trying to give a diff persepctive on everything and my thoughts. If what Im saying is wrong, even completely wrong I wont mind if its genuinely exposed as such. I just want this whole issue to get the wider discussion it deserves. IMHO as of right now, I think some are overeacting.

 

[Bidu]

This wont be an issue if you're actually better than your opponent you know

Says the JC player.

 

[Bidu]

we get it in.this is not a big deal stop crying yay #yolo

Not a big deal? This is freaking pathetic for a fighting game.

 

[Gengar]

Not a big deal? This is freaking pathetic for a fighting game.

then dont fucking play it

 

[Gengar]

supposedly this swaps from player 1 to player 2 every 10 frames. easiest way to test this, scorp mirror. his d4 puts you at 0 frames on hit. have two scorpions mash d4. if player 1 always wins then its real. however, even if it is real there is nothign we can do about it. either way, move the fuck on and quit crying. if you dont like it, play something else. cuz the only other option is to man the fuck up and deal with it.

 

[Lou Kang]

what happens if two sub players slide and meet during the active frames...does player one always win that or how does that mechanic work...if it applies there than situations like that will be much more frequent than same frame trades

 

[Bidu]

then dont fucking play it

 

[Gengar]

your response seems to hint at the fact that you know how fucking obvious it is that if you dont like it you dont have to play it, while your previous post where you were crying like a little bitch over something that is not big of a deal directly contradicts this. are you perhaps female? because this reeks of Girl Logic.

 

[Keep it moist]

Dude...

Sweet

 

[bloodsport]

your response seems to hint at the fact that you know how fucking obvious it is that if you dont like it you dont have to play it, while your previous post where you were crying like a little bitch over something that is not big of a deal directly contradicts this. are you perhaps female? because this reeks of Girl Logic.

excessive cussing and sexism to get your point across? that reeks of bad logic. take a breather big guy

 

[Bidu]

your response seems to hint at the fact that you know how fucking obvious it is that if you dont like it you dont have to play it, while your previous post where you were crying like a little bitch over something that is not big of a deal directly contradicts this. are you perhaps female? because this reeks of Girl Logic.

Whoa someone is salty. roflmao.

Now seriously, I wasn't crying, man. Just stating the obvious. A fighting game that has no trade is pathetic as it is already. I wonder why we took so long to discover about this player 1 advantage shit... Because if you stop to think about it, if there's no trade in this game wtf happens when both players do a move with the same exactly frames? Right? This is huuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuge for characters such as Johnny Cage.

I don't like it. I don't like input bug. I don't like the fact that there is no double KO in this game. I don't like screen scenarios been different in size. I don't like unscapeable resets like Cyrax's or Jax's. I don't like the fact they removed SZ reset. I don't like a shitload of things about this game. And guess what? I'm going to keep playing this game because I still love it. Maybe because it's the only fighting game that I play very competitively. Maybe because of some sadistic unknown reason. Who knows?

 

[MagicMan357]

The should just do the oldschool windpush back effect from the old mk's for trades