MK9: Unofficial Tier List Speculation, and/or Character Shenanigans Discussion!

[AC1984]

This proves that you dont even know what you're talking about, just throwing two cents here and there....

If you dont have solid facts to show, then keep your opinion for your self....First you tell me that Check's Lao stuff is practical and that you do it in match (which I 100% doubt) . I ask you simple question about what exactly you do in a match, now you tell me some inspiring bullshit and 60+....

That thread is a waste of time...I'm done.

 

[Juggs]

lol, chill out Simon. No need to get hostile.

 

[AC1984]

I'm not hostile man, I just kind stick to what you said earlier Juggs...."back up the opinion with a fact or keep it to yourself" remember

I'm not hostile at all, just cant find any reason to argue about some one being nerfed...Its sad because everyone who wants characters nerfed dont even know why they wnat it.

 

[lobo]

as much as i hate to further derail here...can someone clarify for me?

everyone says nobody would use 3 EX hat throws in a combo because xray is more practical...but don't those triple hat throw combo resets do like 100% damage? how is xray more practical than killing them with one "combo"? is the video just BS and you can block that or what?

 

[RagingNight]

as much as i hate to further derail here...can someone clarify for me?

everyone says nobody would use 3 EX hat throws in a combo because xray is more practical...but don't those triple hat throw combo resets do like 100% damage? how is xray more practical than killing them with one "combo"? is the video just BS and you can block that or what?

I think its people assuming that they will have 2 meters to break. But really KL applies so much pressure that he will build the 3 meters faster than his opponents due to block pressure.

I see it as practical. You force them to burn meter doing meterless combos and when the time comes up, bust that shit out.

 

[oZii]

as much as i hate to further derail here...can someone clarify for me?

everyone says nobody would use 3 EX hat throws in a combo because xray is more practical...but don't those triple hat throw combo resets do like 100% damage? how is xray more practical than killing them with one "combo"? is the video just BS and you can block that or what?

Your not derailing at all I checked with Lucky Day when I posted it, he said its relevant told him I would delete it if he didnt think it was. he said its fine.

The damage doesnt scale at all and you can't block it after you start it only a breaker can save you from this. For execution its easy and can be started from anywhere.

Now if someone is starting that off a raw back 1 the start up is super slow thats why no one really uses that string. But as in the video you can do it from jump punch.

 

[lobo]

No you can't block it and there is no damage scaling.

that is what i thought...and i know you can breaker out of it IF you have meter...but why would people say it isn't practical? looks pretty easy and looks like a 1 hit kill to me. i can't think of anything more practical than that.

 

[Lucky Day]

A few people are saying that Kung Lao reset doesn't work against a human blocking offline. I'd like to see it recorded and tested before I worry about it.

 

[oZii]

that is what i thought...and i know you can breaker out of it IF you have meter...but why would people say it isn't practical? looks pretty easy and looks like a 1 hit kill to me. i can't think of anything more practical than that.

I edited my post above with what I think about it. At first I thought it was really practical like AC1984 is saying then after reading what Ranging Night say I kinda agree with what you and him said. Kung builds up meter extremely extremely fast based on his playstyle.

Execution you have to be missing fingers to drop this.

 

[A F0xy Grampa]

I'm not hostile man, I just kind stick to what you said earlier Juggs...."back up the opinion with a fact or keep it to yourself" remember

I'm not hostile at all, just cant find any reason to argue about some one being nerfed...Its sad because everyone who wants characters nerfed dont even know why they wnat it.

It wasnt an opinion though was it? I never said 'I think i can do 60%s easy'
But they are practical, not like most of em are even that hard to do anyway

 

[REYTHEGREAT]

I think lui kang is top 5. I have been laying around with him and he got some nice mix ups. Also, if you know how to use breaker correctly, you will be able to break those combos by Kung.

 

[lobo]

A few people are saying that Kung Lao reset doesn't work against a human blocking offline. I'd like to see it recorded and tested before I worry about it.

welp...looks i know what i'm testing at our session tonight!

 

[THTB]

Don't think of breaker as a failsafe tactic, because a lot of times, using it for that purpose is a death sentence. Too often do I see people just breaking and still losing life and more because they rely on it too much. 2 meters to break is not worth it unless you truly need it, like to keep momentum on your side, to get out of the corner, to keep someone in the corner, etc. It's a lot more of a spacing element than a "GTFO ME" card.

 

[AC1984]

By useless I do not mean that its not gonna work, I just think that its not worth trying it. I did it a couple of min. ago and i think that the timing is a little challenging which is not a bad thing. Here are my observations and FACTS that make me believe what I think:

First of all, most of you base your assumptions on some online matches or practice mode. Last week we clearly saw in Cincinnati tons of breakers against Kung Lao. Having 3 bars against some one who doesn't have a breaker is not gonna happen that often as you think unless you're playing against the dummy in training mode.

Second, the ex hat toss is unblockable only after B+1, F+1 and 2,4. B+1, F+1 comes out very slow and its not an option to punish unless you 100% anticipate a projectile and jump over it with a JP starter in order to force the chain. 2'4 is also not the best punisher but is better than the one mentioned above. If you just wanna try it on block and the hat toss gets blocked, well you know what you're gonna get for trying it. The Ex hat toss has apparently more recovery than the regular one and as Tom Brady said in the guide, the hat toss is safe only from range.

Third, this concept doesn't apply to antiair situations.

The only thing that I see as of now is using 2,4 as a guessing game-follow up by the throw,spin or EX hat toss for reset. But you still risk a lot with the spin and the hat. Perfect Legend and Reo do good with lao because they play it safe and solid and not because they try cocky and risky stuff....

Anyone feel free to argue with better and more solid facts.

 

[oZii]

By useless I do not mean that its not gonna work, I just think that its not worth trying it. I did it a couple of min. ago and i think that the timing is a little challenging which is not a bad thing. Here are my observations and FACTS that make me believe what I think:

First of all, most of you base your assumptions on some online matches or practice mode. Last week we clearly saw in Cincinnati tons of breakers against Kung Lao. Having 3 bars against some one who doesn't have a breaker is not gonna happen that often as you think unless you're playing against the dummy in training mode.

Second, the ex hat toss is unblockable only after B+1, F+1 and 2,4. B+1, F+1 comes out very slow and its not an option to punish unless you 100% anticipate a projectile and jump over it with a JP starter in order to force the chain. 2'4 is also not the best punisher but is better than the one mentioned above. If you just wanna try it on block and the hat toss gets blocked, well you know what you're gonna get for trying it. The Ex hat toss has apparently more recovery than the regular one and as Tom Brady said in the guide, the hat toss is safe only from range.

Third, this concept doesn't apply to antiair situations.

The only thing that I see as of now is using 2,4 as a guessing game-follow up by the throw,spin or EX hat toss for reset. But you still risk a lot with the spin and the hat. Perfect Legend and Reo do good with lao because they play it safe and solid and not because they try cocky and risky stuff....

Anyone feel free to argue with better and more solid facts.

Was going to post about the 2,4 starter working also, but AC beat me to it. Those are the only 2 strings that it works with from what I tested.

Its going to have to come after throw and mix ups. Most people block kung lao low anyway cause he has no real scary overhead. (Though most people don't mix in 2,4, 1+2 in there game yet). I dont know a correct guess gives you 55% + (depending on starter and how many bars you have) Its kind of a 2 way street. You can breaker it but its semi-easy to do when you start it and can be started anywhere on screen.

For longevity and marketing of the game I think it probably should be taken out. If it shows up at streamed tourney it will be the same thing again similar to the Bomb Trap.

 

[AC1984]

Yes, I also agree that this type of thing should be taken out because if its there some people are gonna make it goal number one in a match but the competitive Lao player imo is not gonna relly on that at all and even if its there most players are not gonna do it unless its easy as fuck to do. Also the reset works only with B1 F1, 24 works only as a starter.

 

[oZii]

Yes, I also agree that this type of thing should be taken out because if its there some people are gonna make it goal number one in a match but the competitive Lao player imo is not gonna relly on that at all and even if its there most players are not gonna do it unless its easy as fuck to do. Also the reset works only with B1 F1, 24 works only as a starter.

Yea the B1, F1 for the reset does make it a little bit more difficult to execute than I thought or as you said AC challenging since you have to EX-Hat after the first Hit of F1 but before the knock back. So they don't leave their feet.

P.S. very good discussion with you on this thks.

 

[AC1984]

I enjoy it as well because facts are exposed and discussed rather than personal opinion. good stuff

 

[Vulcan Hades]

So "post patch" tier should mostly look like this:

S tier: Johnny Cage, Sub-Zero, Raiden, Kung Lao, Nightwolf, Reptile

A tier: Kitana, Cyber-Sub, Ermac, Mileena, Liu Kang, Scorpion, Kano, Kabal, Sonya, Shang Tsung

B tier: Cyrax, Jade, Stryker, Smoke, Noob Saibot, Sektor, Sindel

C tier: Jax, Quan Chi, Baraka, Sheeva

 

[oZii]

So "post patch" tier should mostly look like this:

S tier: Johnny Cage, Sub-Zero, Raiden, Kung Lao, Nightwolf, Reptile

A tier: Kitana, Cyber-Sub, Ermac, Mileena, Liu Kang, Scorpion, Kano, Kabal, Sonya, Shang Tsung

B tier: Cyrax, Jade, Stryker, Smoke, Noob Saibot, Sektor, Sindel

C tier: Jax, Quan Chi, Baraka, Sheeva

Depends on your tier to begin with?

Looks about the same as the majority of tiers that are already out there though. Wait I see you moved Cyrax to B tier ok. Everything else looks standard to me.

Edit missed the Smoke move

 

[Neclord]

So "post patch" tier should mostly look like this:

S tier: Johnny Cage, Sub-Zero, Raiden, Kung Lao, Nightwolf, Reptile

A tier: Kitana, Cyber-Sub, Ermac, Mileena, Liu Kang, Scorpion, Kano, Kabal, Sonya, Shang Tsung

B tier: Cyrax, Jade, Stryker, Smoke, Noob Saibot, Sektor, Sindel

C tier: Jax, Quan Chi, Baraka, Sheeva

This list looks pretty good in my opinion.

 

[McNasty]

smoke getting punked out by kano :throwcomputer:

edit: kano still wont have the tools that smoke does SHAKE AND BAKE!

 

[THTB]

Dunno, really...after patching is done, who knows who will end up where?

 

[MKF30]

HaHaHaHaHaHaaa....
omfg someone make it stop LMFAOOO!

Guess I'm supposed to laugh? Very amusing...

Coming from the guy bragging about "Sektor online" lol....how ironic

At any rate, on the tiers just my opinion but I can't see how Sub is higher then Ermac and Smoke. Just my opinion on that.



AC/Simon, dude seriously shut your mouth already.... you're the moron here that gets butthurt everytime someone disagrees with you, well too bad...you act as if you've been to every event and you haven't so shut it already and let's not forget how some people mocked you for using a KB saying it was "superior" to a stick and pad lol...you're amusing. And when did I ever ask to be "catered?" Are you that stupid?

 

[Vulcan Hades]

Patch won't change much except for a few unfortunate characters. Kung Lao will still be strong despite his damage nerf.

Cyrax, depends if he loses both his resets and bomb trap, then it might really hurt him.

According to Tom, Sonya was S tier because of her stance trap (infinite safe jail strings and 50/50s). But that will be (or has been) removed for sure, so she'll end up A I think.

Ermac and Smoke got nerfed a bit. Not sure how this will affect them but they also shouldn't move too much. But to me Ermac and Cyber Sub were borderline S pre-patch.

Also, we're not talking much about her, but Sindel got hurt bad imo. She can't even combo into scream anymore (not even in the corner). And she already wasn't that great pre-patch so.. meh. She's still a great zoner but she doesn't have much else tbh.