NRS and their garbage patches (aka hotfixes)

[trufenix]

Yeah its a great idea in theory but it just doesn't work.

Uh, why not?

 

[Obly]

The biggest and main issue really seems to be lack of communication from NRS. As a casual observation, I'd guess probably 90% of all the drama is created simply because no one really knows what NRS is working on, what their priorities are, or even just what their own take is on various game topics.

As a result, community members start making up their own random theories about what NRS is or isn't doing--usually biased to be as negative and pessimistic as possible--and then commence with tons of salty teeth-gnashing and mouth-breathing about it. Other people weigh in with different theories, and eventually everyone starts attacking each other. Tempers flare, butts are hurt, lots of silly name-calling happens--all over disagreements that everyone forgets are based on "facts" that were completely made up to begin with.

90% of that would stop if NRS would just keep the community in the loop about what they're up to. Even if you didn't like what they were choosing to do, at least you'd know and could make an informed decision about where to spend your time.

Why don't they communicate? Might be trying to avoid the risk of over-promising and under-delivering. Might be trying to avoid opening themselves to another Mileena stan-like campaign. Maybe they just don't pay their community managers enough. Who really knows... just more guesswork.

 

[SHAOLIN]

but tekken does have roll back

Source?

 

[SaladPlateLover]

NRS is sleeping but also the anti-fun part of the community are to blame because pre-release they pushed for no custom variations and NRS, who seemed undecided at the time, settled for presets. So the first year of patches was spent on presets when they could've been for customs instead.

 

[Juggs]

NRS is sleeping but also the anti-fun part of the community are to blame because pre-release they pushed for no custom variations and NRS, who seemed undecided at the time, settled for presets. So the first year of patches was spent on presets when they could've been for customs instead.

From what I understand from what NRS employees have stated, they were always going to start off making tournament preset variations the standard for ranked and tournaments. It was easier on NRS’ end balance wise, it was easier on competitive players to be able to grind against specific variations, and it was easier to organize from a tournament perspective. My issue with this from day 1 is that we, as the competitive community, could have made our own rules for this. We didn’t have to abide by their standard. Yes, in the actual events ran by NRS, we had to abide by their rules. And I understand the argument that you might as well make that the standard for the other tournaments because it was much easier to deal with. My point is we did have a choice, but not enough of the competitive community, leaders or otherwise, really wanted or pushed for customs in competitive play. Which I can’t really blame them. As I said, it was so much easier to just use the tournament preset variations for all the reasons I mentioned.

 

[xWildx]

The variation system would work better in a game without legacy behind it.

Jacqui is the best rushdown. Cetrion is the best zoner. Liu Kang has the best jack of all trades toolset. It makes a lot of character that may play similarly mostly irrelevant at high level.

Variations could work in theory, but I think with only about 10-15 base characters max, each with a very focused base kit. Trying to cram 30 characters into this system simply doesn’t pan out well, especially when you have to factor in legacy gameplay.

 

[Levaranoia]

I miss the days of the wild patches with like a billion actual changes. Where shit felt actually different. Not these soft ass bullshit changes they do now.

 

[theotherguy]

I miss the days of the wild patches with like a billion actual changes.

And the very next post is "ARRGGHHH too many patches, i can't deal, it's too different!! Why!!!!".

Everyone's different and likes different things. Some like the more cautious approach and prefer the smaller tweaking patches, some like big changes that constantly change things. NRS can never, ever win.

We've seen it in every game released. People have to get used to the fact that maybe everything isn't going to be designed around what they want, or what they think things should be like.

The biggest and main issue really seems to be lack of communication from NRS. As a casual observation, I'd guess probably 90% of all the drama is created simply because no one really knows what NRS is working on, what their priorities are, or even just what their own take is on various game topics.

I've never understood the desire that people need to know what's coming up 5 minutes after the last patch or KP release. It's clearly just me, but i don't really give a shit about what NRS is planning or if there's a new update/game coming out. I'll play the current iteration of the game and if a new patch/KP comes out then yay!!. If not, then i'll make the choice to keep on playing with what is there or find something else to play.

 

[NaCl man]

Uh, why not?

Has it worked in the last 2 games?

 

[supahotbean]

I've never understood the desire that people need to know what's coming up 5 minutes after the last patch or KP release. It's clearly just me, but i don't really give a shit about what NRS is planning or if there's a new update/game coming out. I'll play the current iteration of the game and if a new patch/KP comes out then yay!!. If not, then i'll make the choice to keep on playing with what is there or find something else to play.

The purpose is for those who play the game alot . It gives some insight for what's coming up so that people won't start leaving the game. Fortnite wouldn't be as popular as it is rn if they didn't consistently tell their users what's coming up (in the next season, update, etc).

 

[Wigy]

Prefer set variations if they wana have some level of it. It was much better in mkx. Even if they werent good they had a distinct function.

Issue with absolute freedom is its a total nightmare to balance and tends to the broke characters being more broke rather than giving you the chance to use variations on the same character to cover different matchups

 

[Wigy]

But yeah patching has been very ineffective and sparse .

 

[DeftMonk]

Source?

Everyone knows this they updated the net code awhile ago. You can’t really compare mk11 to Tekken because people aren’t gonna be finding loads of tech out half a year/a year later in mk11.

I do think the best thing they did for mk11 was allowing custom variations. Even if it did make the balance worse, it shook up the game and that is one thing those big sfv/Tekken season balance patches do that mk11 balance patches don’t. If every couple KL season they added a new move or some balance to everyone it would be way more interesting even if it wasn’t balanced IMO.

 

[Pizza]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1365380635544674308

 

[supahotbean]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1365380635544674308

Lol the comments are saying that the best player in the game is too impatient. Like how can asking for a road map being impatient.

 

[ShepherdOfFire]

Yep, the patching is awful in MK11, NRS only seem to care about "balance" only when they have new characters to sell, and even then they will still protect their protégés (Jacqui, Liu Kang...) from the nerfs they really need.
I mean NRS must be very happy about Jacqui's pickrate, she must be a fan favorite to be picked that much, right ? Let's put her in MK12 !

Every tournament has been boring to watch because of the army of Jacqui players. Now I'm only watching the replays so I can skip all the games with Jacqui in it. I'm not blaming the players though, it's a tournament so I understand that one would play the OP character to maximize his chances to win.

The game right now is in a dull state, with customs every character can do everything, there is almost no character archetype and it makes the game boring. The only character archetypes can be beaten at their own game by any other character with the right loadout. I'm still enjoying the game because there are two characters archetypes I love to play, but overall the roster is bland. In MKX I would pick X character in training just to experiment, to have fun performing combos but with no intention on playing the said character in real matches. In MK11 I do not have this feeling to play with a bit of everyone just for fun, I just stick to my 2 characters I really enjoy and just lab. i do realise this piece of criticism is very subjective but I just want to highlight the need of a shake up in the meta to make character a bit more interesting to play.

Also the communication is still inexistant. I'd like to know if they still have something planned for MK11 or if they have stopped supporting the game and they now focus on their next title. And when I say communication I mean actual communication, not another troll/false hint on Ed boon's twitter account.

The last patch was only there to add the files of the new gear to the next three recycled KL seasons, they just added or removed one frame here and there, added two lazy "buffs" to Robocop and Shao Kahn and they nerfed Rambo and Mileena, two low-to-mid tier characters, by making their throw KBs even harder to get because NRS doesn't like throw KBs that takes skill to perform and just prefers the good old and dumb 50/50s throws KB. And Jacqui ? Well... Nothing, as usual. I mean this is even worse than not doing anything at all, it's like they're saying "We're here, we COULD balance the game... But we won't".

 

[NaCl man]

Lol the comments are saying that the best player in the game is too impatient. Like how can asking for a road map being impatient.

don't dick ride bro lol. 4 months....it ain't that long man. Maybe they are trying to work out customs or maybe they are done and don't care. Be patient im sure all will be revealed. They patched mkx to much so they let this game rock a bit more and you all still complain. If I was nrs I'd pull out the Harada shirt on you all lol.

 

[EarlyReflections]

This is in no way a justification of how NRS handles balance patches or any decision they make. But I think there’s something people seem to fail to understand on a basic level. It’s something I’ve stated and repeated so often I feel like everyone knows what I’m about to say, yet every time I say it, it feels like people are reading it for the first time.

Anyway, NRS games are vastly different from just about any other fighting game. And no, I’m not talking about from a gameplay perspective (even though that is true too). Not only the overwhelming majority, I’d say (and this is an estimate to be fair), that at least 95% of the sales from NRS games comes from casuals. Not only the base game, but I’d argue that percentage is also true when it comes to DLC. Maybe it’s smaller when it comes to DLC, but I don’t think it’s a significant difference. When it comes to most of the other fighting games, that percentage seems to be vastly different. More along the lines of 70% are casuals, and I honestly think I’m being generous there.

So, NRS’ primary target are casuals. They know casuals buy the game, play it for a month or two, drop it, and then pick it back up for a week or two once DLC drops. And then rinse and repeat.

Even though balance patches are in theory for the competitive players, they still have significant motivation to cater to the casuals even within something designed to be “for” the competitive players (balance patches/hotfixes, etc). NRS is a business. It wouldn’t make since to cater to such a small percentage of your sales. In fact, I would even argue that they never have to cater to the competitive players at all and they would be just fine. It sounds shillish, but the fact that they even do some of the shit they do for the competitive community is great. Even IF it’s just for optics, in the end, they don’t really gain anything of great significance value wise catering to competitive players.

Other fighting game companies absolutely DO have to cater to the competitive community. Because their competitive community makes up a much larger percentage of their sales compared to NRS games. That isn’t me saying they cater to their competitive community more than their casual community, but they are taken into consideration far more because, again, they make up a larger percentage (comparatively speaking).

Now, I’m not saying there isn’t any value at all to acknowledge the competitive community in the NRS scene and/or to make changes that benefit them. But in the end, all they’re trying to do is increase and maximize their profits. So my question is, why would they spend so much time, money, and resources catering to such a small percentage of their consumer base? Like I said, there is a small financial benefit because competitive players do buy all the DLC and do promote the game (for free) via streams and YouTube. And there’s a benefit optically. It looks good for a game to be balanced. But the funny thing is, they still aren’t even targeting the NRS competitive community in this regard. You know who they’re appealing to here? Competitive players from OTHER fighting game communities.

So in a sense, we are the LEAST important people as far as value is concerned if we are looking at NRS from a business perspective.

My point is, y’all expect far too much from NRS when it comes to balance patches. That’s all I’m saying.

Nice write up.
Since MKX, NRS/WB tried so hard to infiltrate the competitive scene, and designed and mostly PROMOTED their games to cater to the competitive crowd as much as to their casual audience. Shouldn't they continue on that route?
Then there's the common concept of 95% of MK players being casuals who play for 2 weeks. Is it really true? There's a ton of decent players who join online, somewhat understand the concept of competitive play, study a bit of frame data, train a little, you know. Not pros, not casuals. Them + pros are only the other 5%?

 

[Pizza]

The game right now is in a dull state, with customs every character can do everything, there is almost no character archetype and it makes the game boring.

"Characters are just functions" - Marvel vs Capcom Infinite prophet

 

[Swindle]

Paying for frame data is dumb, but tekken does have roll back

Tekken still using all their same combat animations from 1997.

 

[Eddy Wang]

Tekken still using all their same combat animations from 1997.

game's amazing tho.

 

[Juggs]

Nice write up.
Since MKX, NRS/WB tried so hard to infiltrate the competitive scene, and designed and mostly PROMOTED their games to cater to the competitive crowd as much as to their casual audience. Shouldn't they continue on that route?
Then there's the common concept of 95% of MK players being casuals who play for 2 weeks. Is it really true? There's a ton of decent players who join online, somewhat understand the concept of competitive play, study a bit of frame data, train a little, you know. Not pros, not casuals. Them + pros are only the other 5%?

Well, 5% is me being extremely generous, actually. Because if you take the total number of sales, 5% is around 400,000 people or so (based on 8 million copies sold). Even 1% of that number is 80,000.

 

[Swindle]

game's amazing tho.

I honestly stopped caring about Tekken after T3.
No regrets.

 

[supahotbean]

I’d say reinventing the wheel is one of the biggest draws to casuals. Casuals have a completely different perspective. When it comes to fighting games, they don’t want to play the same game just with new features and a new coat of paint. They want a seemingly completely new experience. One of those reasons is that even though they are casuals, they want at least the sense that they aren’t already starting “behind”. Even IF they have already played the previous games (or it would be iterations in this case). Even though casuals aren’t competitive players, they still want to think they have a chance at winning. I think NRS knows exactly what the casuals want, which is why they reinvent the wheel for each new game. I’d imagine that 99.9% of their resources go into trying to figure out what will best sell the new game to casuals. And I don’t think that’s some crazy revelation, just common sense.




Why would they stop with the baiting if we always fall for it anyway? Because it’s the right thing to do? No offense, but get the fuck out of here, lol. NRS isn’t our friend who wants to do what’s best for our competitive community. That isn’t to say there isn’t many people who work at NRS that DO want that. But what individual employees want is kinda irrelevant honestly.

But more to the point, as I said in the previous post, the “hope” angle is all about optics. They want to appear as though they’re catering to the competitive community at least in some regard. Even though we make up such a small percentage of the pie, that’s still pie they want. The worst part is, NRS doesn’t even have to devote that much time to appealing to the hardcore dedicated players. They know, for the most part, the hardcore players will buy all the DLC and new games anyway. And another reason they want competitive players around, is because of one of the few reasons we add value in NRS’ eyes, free promotion.

Anyway, I’m going to stop here. I realize it seems like I’m making a lot of assumptions so I don’t want to piss anyone off. I just want y’all to understand the reality that NRS is simply a business, and their games are simply their product. The goal is to do anything they can to sell that product to anyone willing to buy it. And to be crystal clear, I’m not saying I have any issues with this or with NRS at all. I just understand the realities even if those realities are uncomfortable.

(Old response)

Casuals might be the biggest proportion in this game, but they aren't buying these combat packs. Why would someone, who rarely plays the game, invest over 40 dollars into it. It doesn't make sense. People who have invested hours into this game through the krypt, towers of time, KL are the ones who are buying these expensive combat packs.

I and I'm sure many others play different games at a casual level. Even though i play cod, I never buy the season pass or any dlc, because it would be a waste of money. If I'm only on the game for 2 to 3 hours why would I invest 50 bucks for a season pass that you have to grind for 20 hours in order to obtain the full benefit from. The people who do buy the season passes are thoes who have over 30+ hours in the game.

So no I don't think that most of the dlc purchases come from casuals, unless I'm just a weird gamer who doesn't blow my money.

 

[Eddy Wang]

I honestly stopped caring about Tekken after T3.
No regrets.

Sure.
We are having lots of Fun with T7.