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Kotal Kahn General Discussion

BuffRaiden

BuffRaiden

Nerf Erron's F4 Already
Honestly I struggle against this character more than the top tiers. He can punish from Half screen and seems safe on everything except f243. I understand his weaknesses playing him, but were are his exploits playing against him?
 
chief713

chief713

Vertebral Subluxationist
Naaah bro, I said you were triggered after you resorted to some name calling you wouldn't do IRL. Before that I said you hate being wrong because when shown that F1 jailing works (after you flat out said it didn't with no testing whatsoever), you went and did some half assed labbing and rushed back here with misinformation to very obviously save face and say "well it kinda works mechanically BUT IT'S USELESS!" Even tho I never said it was useful, only possible...

Anyway, I labbed it for 3 hours and found that F1 ALWAYS jails when D1 hits around and absolutely at max range on EVERY male character. For Erron, Noob, Liu, Lao, Jax and Kotal, it jails no matter where D1 hits. I'm getting it to work fairly consistently (about 6/10 avg among all chars), and my execution is just okay, nothing special. IMO it's fairly easy on Geras, Erron and Kollector and kinda difficult on Baraka. I also tested with Geras mashing D1 after getting hit with Kotal D1 and Kotal F1 beats it out clean. I haven't tested others yet.

I'll have to commit more to trying it in live matches and tournament to make a final verdict on how useful it is, but my success rate in practice has me confident enough to at least attempt it outside of Baraka. Ironically, that might be the most important MU for it because on max range D1 hit on Baraka, command grab whiffs if you try to hit confirm.
 
LawAbidingCitizen

LawAbidingCitizen

Bomb Setups & Ball Rolls(Mileena/Cyrax)
Morgan the pilgrim said:
Btw , wanted to let u know that defensive totem was nerfed silently , now provides 20% dmg reduction per stack up to 60% .It was 50% for the first totem and 10% per aditional stacks.For dmg totem (maybe im wrong but i think its buffed) , 20% dmg increase per stack up to 60%(i think it was 10% or 15% per totem) . For blood totem 37.5% heal for first totem, 75% for 2 and 112.5% for all 3. Before it was 40% 80% 120%. And for the last CG lvl 1 buff is 10% , lvl 2 is 25% and lvl 3 is 33% dmg increase. As for the cd buff is ticking down from lvl 3 to 2 to 1 to 0 NOT from 3 straight to 0 in the same time span.
Click to expand...
Thank you and good work.

Just need his hitboxes fixed and he will be awesome maybe cg to allow choose sides.
Maybe meterless it switches sides and amp keeps them forward or amp allows you to choose side.

  • D1 needs longer range.
  • CG needs better hitbox
  • CG choose side
  • s1 better hitbox/range
  • s2 better hotbox/range
  • s2 at least 2 more frames to jail from D1
  • F1 changed to mid
  • Sunlight could have less startup
  • Remove God Ray from Ascension
  • Fix pushback when opponents crouch block.
Totemic specific changes:
  • saw launches when amped
  • Jaguar low profiles highs from start to finish.
 
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K

KotalKahnIsTrueKahn

Noob
BanTheTesters said:
hey guys been playing kotal a bit i dig him but i just had a few questions:
what string should i be using to punish unsafe opponent string?

And i also keep getting db2 when i try to input db4...?

Kotal is really rough in this one definitely trying to make him work but i keep getting hit out of strings etc.
Click to expand...
  1. I use f12 into df2 into ender.
  2. That's simply an input error. I used to have this issue until I cleaned up my inputs.
  3. You have to space your strings. F2 for instance, used at close range you will always get hit out of due to its slow startup. If you're playing the ascension variation, I recommend that you use command grab a lot at close range, as it is your best close range tool. At mid range he is very good, and at far range he is a trashcan, so keep your opponents in that midrange and focus on that. Use a lot of d4s, which always jail into f4 and f2. If people keep mashing d1, block, d1, into command grab or d4 works well. If opponents keep blocking, use the d1 or s1 tick throws. Condition them to block and stop mashing before you attempt the tick throws, or you will get punished every time.
 
Ram

Ram

Buluc Chabtan
just a little PSA for Kotal players: Kotal has several moves that take a few seconds for the animation to complete (e.g., command grab, sword cut, cat pounce). I urge Kotal players to take this relatively long animation time during these moves to quickly survey the screen and check on (1) your HP (2) opponent's HP (3) your ATK/DEF meters (4) opponent's ATK/DEF meters. I believe that this is a good habit to get into and that it can help improve our decision-making during matches.
 
VSC_Supreme

VSC_Supreme

TYM's #1 L taker.
When your opponent breaks away after you launch them, how do you guys tend to follow that up? How do you handle it differently when you anticipate them to breakaway?

F4 has currently been my go to, to attempt to keep myself safe and at a good distance, but I feel like there's something better I can do.
 
Ram

Ram

Buluc Chabtan
VSC_Supreme said:
When your opponent breaks away after you launch them, how do you guys tend to follow that up? How do you handle it differently when you anticipate them to breakaway?

F4 has currently been my go to, to attempt to keep myself safe and at a good distance, but I feel like there's something better I can do.
Click to expand...
Either d2 or I just don't change my combo at all (I usually end my combos in 3,4xxSword and so if they breakaway, the 3 will hit, 4 will whiff and I'll recover in time for point-blank oki)
 
BanTheTesters

BanTheTesters

“My AGENT is tougher than you...”
Moderator
KotalKahnIsTrueKahn said:
  1. I use f12 into df2 into ender.
  2. That's simply an input error. I used to have this issue until I cleaned up my inputs.
  3. You have to space your strings. F2 for instance, used at close range you will always get hit out of due to its slow startup. If you're playing the ascension variation, I recommend that you use command grab a lot at close range, as it is your best close range tool. At mid range he is very good, and at far range he is a trashcan, so keep your opponents in that midrange and focus on that. Use a lot of d4s, which always jail into f4 and f2. If people keep mashing d1, block, d1, into command grab or d4 works well. If opponents keep blocking, use the d1 or s1 tick throws. Condition them to block and stop mashing before you attempt the tick throws, or you will get punished every time.
Click to expand...
Ah ok so f12 is the go to? Not f34?
 
LawAbidingCitizen

LawAbidingCitizen

Bomb Setups & Ball Rolls(Mileena/Cyrax)
BanTheTesters said:
Ah ok so f12 is the go to? Not f34?
Click to expand...
  • F24 when walking back farther is vertical strong but sucks up close and Is easy to stuff. Its active frame is only strong at frame 23. So I generally walk back further than F34 range about one step with back dash cancel to force connect.
  • F12 is easily one of his best starters being 11 frames but in certain matchups he has wiffing issues possibly related to hitbox on stance facing a certain way.
  • F34 is probably one of his best normals. Number of hit guess F3, throw or F34 but if they crouch block that -3 ob stagger means nothing.
  • F4 is his best mid.
  • Kahn-cut is plus 40 on hit so ending combos with it is extremely important for using Quake, Sunlight and Totems.
  • B2/ B22 have max range wiffing issues and B22 is unsafe and B223 has a gap you can poke or FB(character specific)
  • 122 & 221 Have horrible hitboxes on first hire making them virtually useless in most applications. You can D1 into a jailing 2 But its a just frame link.
  • D1 has horrible range after anything on block, both players and wiffs. No counter pokes with Kotal.
  • CG wiffs very close up and switches sides so it gives up position. I end combos with kahn -cut instead for setups and corner carry.
  • corner unblockable setup: F24/F12 xx KC, D1, D1, D1, 22 xx Quake will stuff U+2/F Roll/ and regular wakeup but is beat by U+3 and Delay WU. Gives and extra 8% meterless to 15℅ for a bar and oki setup.
  • B4 is one of The best sweep in the game.
Hope this helps in any way.
 
Tony at Home

Tony at Home

Master
Has anyone else noticed inconsistencies with Totemic?

I've had many situations where I summon totems, sometimes two, then delete a portion of my opponents lifebar to almost get nothing back.

Am I tripping or do I just not understand how this works?

To be clear im talking like taking 30% of my opponents lifebar and getting back 2% with two blood totems on the field

(Sorry this is towers but its the easiest way to show the issue since I can easily equip rain bubble to get totems out before wailing on my opponent)


(For anyone else trying to reproduce, it feels like this happens when you've take any amount of damage towards the end of the active totem going away)
 
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Qwark28

Qwark28

Joker waiting room
Tony at Home said:
Has anyone else noticed inconsistencies with Totemic?

I've had many situations where I summon totems, sometimes two, then delete a portion of my opponents lifebar to almost get nothing back.

Am I tripping or do I just not understand how this works?

To be clear im talking like taking 30% of my opponents lifebar and getting back 2% with two blood totems on the field

(Sorry this is towers but its the easiest way to show the issue since I can easily equip rain bubble to get totems out before wailing on my opponent)


(For anyone else trying to reproduce, it feels like this happens when you've take any amount of damage towards the end of the active totem going away)
Click to expand...
If you're in blockstun or got hit in the last few seconds, you get shit back.

Totemic is one of the most garbage useless variations in the game.
 
Tony at Home

Tony at Home

Master
Qwark28 said:
If you're in blockstun or got hit in the last few seconds, you get shit back.

Totemic is one of the most garbage useless variations in the game.
Click to expand...
It feels like this variation would be... well still not very good, but definitely not this heap of garbage at least if the totem actually worked as described.

This definitely feels like a bug and not something done out of misguided design
 
Tony at Home

Tony at Home

Master
I don't think its a garbage variation.

Just a good variation.
On a extremely underwhelming but fun character.
That has a really bad bug which essentially makes it 100% unsuitable for comp4play.
 
Qwark28

Qwark28

Joker waiting room
If the variation worked properly, it'd probably be his best. Kotal revolves around his massive reach and normals and that variation dials a patient playstyle up to 11.

Unfortunately, it doesn't.
 
BanTheTesters

BanTheTesters

“My AGENT is tougher than you...”
Moderator
LawAbidingCitizen said:
  • F24 when walking back farther is vertical strong but sucks up close and Is easy to stuff. Its active frame is only strong at frame 23. So I generally walk back further than F34 range about one step with back dash cancel to force connect.
  • F12 is easily one of his best starters being 11 frames but in certain matchups he has wiffing issues possibly related to hitbox on stance facing a certain way.
  • F34 is probably one of his best normals. Number of hit guess F3, throw or F34 but if they crouch block that -3 ob stagger means nothing.
  • F4 is his best mid.
  • Kahn-cut is plus 40 on hit so ending combos with it is extremely important for using Quake, Sunlight and Totems.
  • B2/ B22 have max range wiffing issues and B22 is unsafe and B223 has a gap you can poke or FB(character specific)
  • 122 & 221 Have horrible hitboxes on first hire making them virtually useless in most applications. You can D1 into a jailing 2 But its a just frame link.
  • D1 has horrible range after anything on block, both players and wiffs. No counter pokes with Kotal.
  • CG wiffs very close up and switches sides so it gives up position. I end combos with kahn -cut instead for setups and corner carry.
  • corner unblockable setup: F24/F12 xx KC, D1, D1, D1, 22 xx Quake will stuff U+2/F Roll/ and regular wakeup but is beat by U+3 and Delay WU. Gives and extra 8% meterless to 15℅ for a bar and oki setup.
  • B4 is one of The best sweep in the game.
Hope this helps in any way.
Click to expand...
Thanks for the tips!!
Is Kotal cut a part of base for him? I use the first variation as of right now

I believe cut is his uppercut looking move isn’t it?
 
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