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Kotal Kahn General Discussion

Immortal

Blind justice....
Frost can safely space you out and her zoning is super annoying for Kotal coz you have to take the amp version of her multi hiting projectile, parry is useless. F2 is amazing if you try to advance to fast, thou if you duck it she's dead. You want to be close to her, coz her pokes sucks (frame wise) even more then Kotals but the problem is everything that Kotal does sends her away from you lol.

It's just another example how Kotal is an unfinished / rushed character not really thought out at all.
 

ChoseDeath

Seriously Casual Player.
Premium Supporter
Frost can safely space you out and her zoning is super annoying for Kotal coz you have to take the amp version of her multi hiting projectile, parry is useless. F2 is amazing if you try to advance to fast, thou if you duck it she's dead. You want to be close to her, coz her pokes sucks (frame wise) even more then Kotals but the problem is everything that Kotal does sends her away from you lol.

It's just another example how Kotal is an unfinished / rushed character not really thought out at all.
Damn. At least I'm in good company! All aboard the waiting for a patch Train...
 
So played my first online ranked sets with kotal. . . I dunno how y'all do it. Zero losses 5 quitality I just stopped after an hour or so felt like I learned nothing. I couldn't even block projectiles properly online, so I can see how people think he is quite a bit weaker than I think he is.

Side note. Out of curiosity who are you all losing to to establish your character knowledge of kotal. And are any of you in US to play PS4? I am garbage online but I need the raw games.
 

Zubro

Noob
So what are the best options for jailing? I’ve been mostly using d4 into f4. And I’ve recently discovered d4 into dash f3 works. But that’s all I’ve found. D1 is so inconsistent I usually just use d4. What are the conditions for d1 to consistently hit opponents? If any. And what are the best follow ups? I hate how Kotal seems to have little T-Rex arms for d1 and his command grab.
 

Qwark28

Joker waiting room
So what are the best options for jailing? I’ve been mostly using d4 into f4. And I’ve recently discovered d4 into dash f3 works. But that’s all I’ve found. D1 is so inconsistent I usually just use d4. What are the conditions for d1 to consistently hit opponents? If any. And what are the best follow ups? I hate how Kotal seems to have little T-Rex arms for d1 and his command grab.
D1 up close into command grab on hit is a frametrap they can only jump out of.

otherwise you have it right. You have to have the matchup experience to know at what ranges your d1 whiffs after which strings or pokes, etc.
 

Zubro

Noob
I’m starting to think it’s not worth amplifying command grab. There are more options to continue pressure after the unamped version plus it’s hard to get another buff when they are thrown so far away. What are you guys following up cg with?
 

chief713

Vertebral Subluxationist
I’m starting to think it’s not worth amplifying command grab. There are more options to continue pressure after the unamped version plus it’s hard to get another buff when they are thrown so far away. What are you guys following up cg with?
I usually amp when I have a big life lead and/or when I have the CG buff already. After normal CG you can do F2, which will beat any buttons and you can hit confirm into either a F24 kahn cut combo or a F24 cmd grab if they tried to jump. Delay F2 will catch forward rolls and up 2/3. Once they respect F2, you can mix in quake, dash up cmd grab and dash up F3
 

Zubro

Noob
I usually amp when I have a big life lead and/or when I have the CG buff already. After normal CG you can do F2, which will beat any buttons and you can hit confirm into either a F24 kahn cut combo or a F24 cmd grab if they tried to jump. Delay F2 will catch forward rolls and up 2/3. Once they respect F2, you can mix in quake, dash up cmd grab and dash up F3
Good stuff. I was doing f2 too much and being too predictable so I got hit by up3 a lot. Never thought to delay it. Lol. What about Ji1? Or is that too yolo?
 

Qwark28

Joker waiting room
I usually amp when I have a big life lead and/or when I have the CG buff already. After normal CG you can do F2, which will beat any buttons and you can hit confirm into either a F24 kahn cut combo or a F24 cmd grab if they tried to jump. Delay F2 will catch forward rolls and up 2/3. Once they respect F2, you can mix in quake, dash up cmd grab and dash up F3
Good stuff. I was doing f2 too much and being too predictable so I got hit by up3 a lot. Never thought to delay it. Lol. What about Ji1? Or is that too yolo?
I'm gonna copypaste what I've written on discord, and what I usually write when people ask about this, every 2 weeks someone does.

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QwarkToday at 10:21 AM

heres the options you have after normal cg to condition your opp

f2, f24, f3, f34, j1, command grab

youll start conditioning them with f3

it beats wakeup buttons, is a low, you can half stagger it

but -5 on block

if they know how to poke asap, you lose that as an option untill you threaten f34 or f3 kahn cut

once you start doing f34, you can get flawless blocked and punished, its quite easy

nevertheless, say you try a stagger f3, if you go into d1 cg, your d1 will 99% hit bc of the long gap between -5 and 7f d1

so youd have to go normal throw at 10f ( 15f ) or cg 14 ( 20 )


so thats clearly an option for someone well conditioned and trying to FB F34

against characters with mids, either you eat a combo, or a FB U2

risk reward just doesnt exist

so thats the main conditioning tool out of the way

you can start doing F2

F24*

thats meaty

but the gap between f2 and command grab is 5f

meaning that if done pefectly, everyone can wakeup FB

disregarding that, you have 2f to do it perfectly so that a s1 doesnt interrupt and punish you

so you wanna do it meaty AF

therefore youre restricted to meaty timing

which is actually reactable with FB

and because the FB window is 3f, like in guilty gear

if your f2 is meaty enough to be uninterruptible, you can be FBd on the exact same timing every single time

after those, wavedash command grab and j1 are things you do once ppl respect the above

for obvious reasons they have huge holes

the above doesnt mean you have 0 things to do

just bc something is counterable doesnt mean its useless

but its more of a reality check

vs someone who knows the matchup very well

lets completely ignore that tho, take out fb and assume f24 is safe

top tiers have 6f d1s

a f24 on block leaves you -7

people like geras can punish you for it

and leave you at -10

more so, your reward out of anything not f24 is bad damage, mediocre

its 18% command grabs or 11,5% strings

or 7% F4s

while every single top tier either has 50-50s for half your life

mids that will check you for 40% dmg

or throws that lead into pressure

and thats the difference between top tier and the rest, they play a completely different game

nobody is going to feel threatening up close until you play a good geras, sonya, barwreckah, jacuzzi etc

your risk reward is just not worth it

bc your best case scenario if they just block your shit is that you gave up 5,5% dmg and optimal positioning + free sunlight depending on MU, in order to be in their face at -5/-7

or to do a yolo wavedash cg

do you wanna risk getting hit for 30+ minimum for 11,5/18/33% from worst to best or go back to footsie range where youre best with an extra 5,5% and sunlight?

if youre playing against anything other than top10+ characters, keep this in mind but dont take it as a bible

bc you can bully chars who dont have decent or fast mids, or shit pokes

but playing vs top tiers in this game is an entirely different experience when everyone else struggles to mixup strings for a little bit of damage with staggers and ppl respecting them, vs the elite where their mixups are literally them doing their usual string with a 50-50 in the middle or end

thats a short version of why your default behaviour should be to ex the command grab unless you know your opp has weak defence, presses buttons without thinking on autopilot, or doesnt know the MU
 

LawAbidingCitizen

MD| Soberless (Terminator-Final Judgment)
Does anyone have something to say to PND ketchup and Mustard using the Kahns with Kustom loadouts.
I think its Blood & Damage totem and Kahn-Cut.
They seem to think Kotal is fine if you get custom variations For tournament. I think they just don't know Kotal well enough. He is plagued with hitbox problems and recovery/startup problems on specials that hinder Kotal in a fundamental way not linked to variations.

Here is the video:

 

Kekoa

Noob

Sorry if this was already posted. D4~Quake after Kahn Cut stuffs Geras' U+2 and punishes his U+3. It can also punish his breaker. However, delayed getup is a full combo punish. Only tested on Geras so far.
 

Immortal

Blind justice....

Sorry if this was already posted. D4~Quake after Kahn Cut stuffs Geras' U+2 and punishes his U+3. It can also punish his breaker. However, delayed getup is a full combo punish. Only tested on Geras so far.
Why would you do that? If you hit him with any starter you can finish the combo and get a better dmg and work on oki. Also seems like he can roll forward to be directly behind you and pretty much destroy you on whiff.
 

Ram

Buluc Chabtan

Sorry if this was already posted. D4~Quake after Kahn Cut stuffs Geras' U+2 and punishes his U+3. It can also punish his breaker. However, delayed getup is a full combo punish. Only tested on Geras so far.
Yes a Cybrother! And the tech king! :D
 

Kekoa

Noob
Why would you do that? If you hit him with any starter you can finish the combo and get a better dmg and work on oki. Also seems like he can roll forward to be directly behind you and pretty much destroy you on whiff.
He can’t forward roll or back roll or throw or jump. He can only delay getup.
 

Immortal

Blind justice....
He can’t forward roll or back roll or throw or jump. He can only delay getup.
Okay that has some utility than. Something to throw up once in a while on people who dont know. Interesting idea would be - do that close to the corner to not lose position (CMG) nor much of damage (instead of ending the combo with Cut).
 
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Kekoa

Noob
Okay that has some utility than. Something to throw up once in a while on people who dont know. Interesting idea would be done that close to the corner to not lose position (CMG) nor much of damage (instead of ending the combo with Cut).
Yeah, I don’t know how viable this is yet, if at all. I just like knowing what a character can or can’t do and I’ll try to optimize from there. If it ends up being trash I don’t use it lol. I do like that it punishes an immediate breaker. They can’t jump out after breaker either. I’ll have to try at different breaker points in his BnBs.