Does anyone else feel like MK11 was designed for casuals?

[xKMMx]

I appreciate everyone's view points on this. Even the ones that don't agree with my own.
Despite what one dude said my purpose in putting out this thread was not to "seek approval" , but more to open up a discourse on how my opinions align with those of others.
Thanks to everyone for sharing your thoughts.

P.S. to the guy that said I'm seeking approval I'm sorry for using the word "discourse" to say discussion cause based on your one line message and grammar that word probably didn't make sense to you.

 

[xKMMx]

I really feel like you need to understand you can quote and reply to multiple people in one post.

I don't.

 

[EarlyReflections]

I


I started out as a total Street Fighter 2 fanboy in the 90's and didn't even like MK until MK2 came out then I was sucked in by the look, characters, lore and gameplay of MK.

I don't know who else on here is like me but there may be a lot of truth to that stereo type. I personally walked away from Mortal Kombat after UMK3 and never really came back until MKXL was released... so way after MKX had even been released. I played other fighters a little over the years but MKX was the first game I truly loved in a long time and the first game that ever inspired me to actually learn how fighting games work and are supposed to be played.

After I got pretty well versed in how basics of fighting games I tried others like SFV and Injustice. I got decent but not great and realized I only grinded out and got good at MKX because I loved the characters and the way the game played .

So I definitely fall in the category of a guy that isn't really a good fighting game player just a hard core casual Mortal Kombat player.

But I fully agree with your points on FB and fatalities after every match. Id rather just get to the next game than sit there and watch my fatality for 60 seconds. But it is in the game so when others do it I get it.

Pretty relatable story. How come you missed mk9? It was the magic re-entry point for the stereotype you talk about.

 

[xKMMx]

Pretty relatable story. How come you missed mk9? It was the magic re-entry point for the stereotype you talk about.

I rented it back in the day when it came out from BLockbuster. In those days I didn't really have the motivation to try and learn how fighting games actually work or frame data or any of that.
I probably would have if I knew about stuff like we have today ie (youtube videos, tutorials, TYM).

To be honest the only reason I got back in was I saw the mini series they did for the first ESL MKX tourney by chance and hearing how those guys talked about the game made me want to figure out what the hell they were talking about when they said "safe, conversion, hit confirm" etc.

Then I saw PRedator was in the game and saw some combos online and all I cared about was learning how to do that sick shit I saw and from there I just got more and more into it and got addicted to the rush from the back and forth battles.

Wish I didn't miss MK9 though Ive seen a lot of old tourney videos and it looks like it was a blast.

 

[Evil Canadian]

MK11 is basically anything but designed for casuals. Strong empasis on neutral means stronger players win. God knows how many setplay monkeys I know in SFV who know every Ibuki mix and gimmick, but don't know how to actually play neutral to save their lives.

 

[xKMMx]

Down-2 KB is obviously a casual titillation tool -- given it's a universal, that the hold-check input scheme isn't even a default configuration, and nor is there any penalty or restriction from using said unconscious KB activation method. Then you have the rather homogenised damage outputs of what are meant to be vastly different character archetypes -- rendering the likes of the Kahns, novelties (if not eventual junk tier, neutered 'bosses') -- and the red tape that creates a rather low skill ceiling on combo mechanics (kind of like how SFV watered down its systems).

So, when you hear Ed Boon apologetically preface even trifling gameplay related talk with "...I have to get a little fighting game nerdie" , it's very difficulty to qualify the rote repetitive BnB's and down-1/2 spams as "meta", and handball everything else into the "mind games" basket.

Mindless gameplay providing fertile ground for deep mind games, is a non-sequitur... But, that won't stop myopic shills championing anything the game does, nor even register with the franchise's majority "kasual" player base... And, so, the race to the bottom will continue at pace.

I'm guessing you don't see a long lifespan for this game?

 

[SwiftEagle]

I


I started out as a total Street Fighter 2 fanboy in the 90's and didn't even like MK until MK2 came out then I was sucked in by the look, characters, lore and gameplay of MK.

I don't know who else on here is like me but there may be a lot of truth to that stereo type. I personally walked away from Mortal Kombat after UMK3 and never really came back until MKXL was released... so way after MKX had even been released. I played other fighters a little over the years but MKX was the first game I truly loved in a long time and the first game that ever inspired me to actually learn how fighting games work and are supposed to be played.

After I got pretty well versed in how basics of fighting games I tried others like SFV and Injustice. I got decent but not great and realized I only grinded out and got good at MKX because I loved the characters and the way the game played .

So I definitely fall in the category of a guy that isn't really a good fighting game player just a hard core casual Mortal Kombat player.

But I fully agree with your points on FB and fatalities after every match. Id rather just get to the next game than sit there and watch my fatality for 60 seconds. But it is in the game so when others do it I get it.

The mechanics in general are much worse than fatal and crushing blows. It favors projectile spammers more than actual fighting. It's like Injustice. Like I said, the complainers won in the end.

 

[xKMMx]

I think only Erron and Frost have full screen fatal blows. I could be wrong. Frost is so bad that you can usually just trash her in a matter of seconds. So you don't have to worry about hers too much. From my experience, Sub Zero players always use fatal blows. I really don't know what it is. I was contemplating earlier that maybe they do the things they do, fatal blows in this case, because they're not using Scorpion. They think to themselves, "I don't use Scorpion, so playing like a complete try hard really doesn't matter."
It's an ego problem. Sub Zero players in MK11 tbag and send hate mail the most from what I've seen.
I'm just glad he doesn't have an ice clone. That was worse than cancer.

Lmao nothing was more annoying than the ice clone. Cant jump in. Cant poke. Do much when your opponent literally cancels out of every thing you block into something that immediately rewards him a free combo. (If he knows how to combo that is )

BTW Noob has a full screen FB also.

 

[xKMMx]

The mechanics in general are much worse than fatal and crushing blows. It favors projectile spammers more than actual fighting. It's like Injustice. Like I said, the complainers won in the end.

I honestly haven't had a real hard time being zoned out in this game. Even characters like Kitana cant sit there and throw fans all day.

 

[Gaxkang]

I honestly haven't had a real hard time being zoned out in this game. Even characters like Kitana cant sit there and throw fans all day.

Zoning exchanges get tricky if one doesn't have a fast enough projectile (or as damaging).

But dealing with projectiles full screen or so forth, in like...getting in on the person is still a pain as per usual in NRS games. Much of the time it still amounts to crabwalking and minding kicks like Johnny's or Liu Kang's, and taking chip damage on some stuff.
Projectiles are still difficult to jump over....they shouldn't be, but NRS still insists on it, it seems.

Injustice 2 at least had meter rolling, MK11 does not.

And then you still have the "zoning" folks like Geras does...the instant hitting moves.

 

[Gaxkang]

Some aspects of the game may seem "casual"...Mortal Kombat has always had a rep as being a "casual fighter", which doesn't add up since it uses a dial combo system which isn't that intuitive.
Probably the most casual aspect is the Fatal Blow. The projectiles could, could feel that way too maybe.

Against some folks you really gotta know 10-15 hit combos I guess, since they will. Combos like that, with dials...ain't that casual.

Punishment on block is light in the game...I'd think a more casual game would have more of it.

Things like flawless block, especially some stuff the tutorial gets into...a truly casual player is never gonna be doing that. Much less online heh.

The core gameplay of MK11, the close up fighting...frankly jumping into Soul Calibur or Dead or Alive is going to flow and come alive more in a casual player's hands, really.
Even when say, Soul Calibur or Dead or Alive may in different respects get more advanced than MK11 at a certain level.

 

[FuhnnyBonez]

Kazuya, Jin, Devil Jin, Akira Yuki, Lee, Skarlet in MK9

Those are just a few examples of characters who balance is determined by execution barriers.
Usually those characters are all strong, but you won't achieve such result if you don't bypass the barrier they offer.

The execution difficulty barrier only limits the player controlling the character, it does not limit the tools the character factually has designed into the game, so in theory, how does a barrier change what the character can do?

 

[KotalKahnIsTrueKahn]

In my opinion they should just remove every character in the game and leave Geras, Erron, Sub Zero, and Scorpion. It's all anybody uses anyway.

Blame the guys that made their shitty tierlists for youtube views. The only reason for Geras and Erron (relatively new to MK) to be this popular is due to everyone spamming tier lists, and taking them as fact from week 1.

 

[Rpgz]

Ive been playing this ovr 100hrs in a month. How long till Im "hardcore" exactly...TYM U got some nerve u know that? IF NRS ever called me casual after 100 hours...i would be very "put off."

 

[Professor Oak]

Ive been playing this ovr 100hrs in a month. How long till Im "hardcore" exactly...TYM U got some nerve u know that? IF NRS ever called me casual after 100 hours...i would be very "put off."

Different kind of casual here, its contrast being competitive. Do you travel to attend tournaments or aspire to? If no, youre not a traditional “casual,” but a casual in this sense still.

 

[Rpgz]

Different kind of casual here, its contrast being competitive. Do you travel to attend tournaments or aspire to? If no, youre not a traditional “casual,” but a casual in this sense still.

Cmon how many ppl have that luxury? why should NRS cater to a very select minority when game is basically early access? no Kombat League evn.

 

[Professor Oak]

Cmon how many ppl have that luxury? why should NRS cater to a very select minority when game is basically early access? no Kombat League evn.

Dude my city, Memphis, is not a big fgc area and Ive found two different spots for locals that regularly get 16 people out playing. Its much more accessible than you think.

Also, this idea in general holds back esports. MAYBE 1000, travel to compete. MAYBE 50,000 will watch. But those numbers can and should grow if they can “cater” to this crowd. At one point every sport, Basketball, Soccer, Swimming, whatever, was just a game. With more “catering” to its dedicated athletes, leagues formed and these simple games have grown to become globally idolized jobs and career growers.

Put simply, you throw the pigskin in your back yard on Thanksgiving, some people wake up at 4am to hit the gym and eat clean to be in good enough shape to efficiently practice and learn the game front to back. One will play the game, solely benefitting as a consumer, one is a potential walking billboard for your product. Ive never seen it as catering to a small crowd, Ive seen it as harvesting a growing phenomena of esports and cementing a permanent place as a premier fighting game.

But esports could end up nothing and they may fear that, banking on the millions of copies sold based on the lore and whatnot. Maybe most people think that way.

 

[Rpgz]

Dude my city, Memphis, is not a big fgc area and Ive found two different spots for locals that regularly get 16 people out playing. Its much more accessible than you think.

Also, this idea in general holds back esports. MAYBE 1000, travel to compete. MAYBE 50,000 will watch. But those numbers can and should grow if they can “cater” to this crowd. At one point every sport, Basketball, Soccer, Swimming, whatever, was just a game. With more “catering” to its dedicated athletes, leagues formed and these simple games have grown to become globally idolized jobs and career growers.

Put simply, you throw the pigskin in your back yard on Thanksgiving, some people wake up at 4am to hit the gym and eat clean to be in good enough shape to efficiently practice and learn the game front to back. One will play the game, solely benefitting as a consumer, one is a potential walking billboard for your product. Ive never seen it as catering to a small crowd, Ive seen it as harvesting a growing phenomena of esports and cementing a permanent place as a premier fighting

Dude youre not going to live forever...Im not sure NRS can survive off e-athelete alone...pretty sure what you are describing is unsustanable...I understand you want to win at a fair game and all...but you are literally describing hundreds of ppls jobs sole purpose in life being for your kompetive lifestyle and no one else...and I am trying to tell you that is a bad business model.

 

[Rpgz]

Dude youre not going to live forever...Im not sure NRS can survive off e-athelete alone...pretty sure what you are describing is unsustanable...I understand you want to win at a fair game and all...but you are literally describing hundreds of ppls jobs sole purpose in life being for your kompetive lifestyle and no one else...and I am trying to tell you that is a bad business model.

Also I only tune into tourney to watch "pros" get blown up. Hope ur @ COMBOBRKR! GL!

 

[Danger317]

D'Vorah, Kotal Khan, Shao Khan, Johnny Cage, Kano, Frost, and a few others; you're saying these characters aren't out of reach by Jacqui, Geras, and Erron Black. This is the most ridiculous statement I've ever heard pertaining to this game. I really don't know what to say to someone who thinks any of the listed characters above stand a chance right now. It really comes off as fanboying to be honest.
Most of the people here probably didn't start with MK3 either. I noticed a lot of them started with the series with MK9. MK11 enforces the stereotype that MK is the most casual fighting game, and the people that play it don't play other fighters.
MKX almost had it right. The bad players had their characters, the hypocrites had grandmaster Sub Zero (people who hated fighting), and the good players had reptile, Swarm Queen D'Vorah, etc.
You and others claim that MK11 isn't "as flashy". What exactly do you all mean? I've yet to play a ranked set where somebody doesn't attempt a fatal blow, forcing me to sit through an animation I've seen literally hundreds of times. The fatalities are longer than ever, and people still don't understand that it wastes so much time during sets. Just get on with the matches. Hearts aren't a good enough excuse. There's an endless Klassic Tower to farm hearts. Set it to Easy and you're good to go.
Serious changes need to happen, and there's nothing traditional or great about a randomized, monetized Krypt.

1. Regarding the low tier vs high tier. Sometimes a low tier character has a really good match up against a top tier and thats when they get their little bit of shine. See Dan/E. Honda from SF4, YungSung from Soul Calibur, Sheeva MK9 , Jason MKX,

2. Imagine a Mortal Kombat fanboy being on a site called Testyourmight. IMAGINE!

3. MKX was the most casual of all the MKs imo, so for you to say that one almost had it right ays A LOT.

4. Any game with super moves is the exact same way. Ive seen the same super moves in Street Fighter, Soul Calibur, MvC series hundreds of times as well. I feel bad for you, not because you have to sit through such "long" fatal blows and fatalities, but because you actually think its a problem. I actually like the cut scene because it gives me time to think about how im going to wake up, or bait/pressure my opponent after its over.

5. I know im probably one of the few, but i could give a damn about anything other than the story mode and player vs player modes in Mk11. If the fan base was similar to me we wouldn't even know what to complain about because it still wouldn't have been touched. I have yet to open the krypt, or the towers of time nor do i plan to. If i wanted to grind materials for gear, id pop in Monster Hunter.

 

[Rpgz]

Im one of the few who is good at both MHW and MK11 if that makes me a scrubby casual, Im okay with that, also it took about 200-300 hours to get all the gear you want. That is why I dont complain abt MK11...Consider yourselves lucky you passed on mhw...Nothing Casual abt either game imo.

 

[MalevolentFix]

Competitive players help the game grow and develop. Casual players drive sales.

This is the way things go. There cannot be one without the other. Why I dont get the competitive players that like to drag casuals like they're annoying dead weight.

Like, bitch do you even want an MK12?

 

[Danger317]

Im one of the few who is good at both MHW and MK11 if that makes me a scrubby casual, Im okay with that, also it took about 200-300 hours to get all the gear you want. That is why I dont complain abt MK11...Consider yourselves lucky you passed on mhw...Nothing Casual abt either game imo.

no im not saying MhW is casual, im just saying. i play mk11 for the fighting game not the rpg elements

 

[Rpgz]

no im not saying MhW is casual, im just saying. i play mk11 for the fighting game not the rpg elements

NRS Still needs to keep TYM playerz happy ofc...but it doesnt sound like you need much...you know what you like, and wont budge on the subject, however in 2020 NRS no longer has the option to be successful with their traditional business practices...Everyone is going to have to adapt to get better, but I hope NRS doesnt alienate anyone too bad. LOVE tourneys I suspect you guys will have tourneys no matter what even if kustom variations become legal....I hope players are willing to adapt because Mortal Kombat is worth the time investment imo...

 

[Professor Oak]

Dude youre not going to live forever...Im not sure NRS can survive off e-athelete alone...pretty sure what you are describing is unsustanable...I understand you want to win at a fair game and all...but you are literally describing hundreds of ppls jobs sole purpose in life being for your kompetive lifestyle and no one else...and I am trying to tell you that is a bad business model.

No offense, but I think you missed my point. The NFL makes rules and regulations for the players, markets the players, provides for the players a game and setting, and they are a very profitable industry. Video games have that potential. I dont know what me living forever has to do with anything or how a competitive environment is unsustainable?

Idk, maybe youre just speaking out of your ass. Thats what a lot of these posts of yours look like.

I appreciate the large amount of people that buy this game, it ensures more games and sometimes better games. Although, I think its worth pointing out, Mortal Kombat is the most popular fighting game. The most popular of something is rarely the best. McDonalds, WWE, Coke, Nickelback, they all are simply well advertised and easily available. I personally would not give a fuck if the new NRS title sold worse, took a graphical step sideways or back, alienated new or bad fighting game players, never got a sequel, but had the cult following of Smash Melee and was a great game. That to me, is 100% MORE acceptable than trying to appeal to people that will NEVER even learn what jails off of their characters d1. Just mash mash mash.