What's new

Does anyone else feel like MK11 was designed for casuals?

Wildabeast

The Bat in the Hat
MKX felt way more scrub friendly to me, the neutral game was almost non-existant thanks to the run button and the overabundance of 50/50s only made that worse, generally weak anti-airs and way too many armored moves (to be fair, this became a problem with MK9 as well after all of the patches) were also annoying. MKX almost felt like a regression back to some of the 3d era's non-sense.
 
Last edited:

Mandolore1123

Man of Science Who Wields the Living Lightning
1) It took me 5 mins each of practice to flawless block so many strings in MK11. Meter in MK11 fills up stupid fast. I am never without meter. On the other hand, the required meticulous defensive meter management in MKX requires a whole different thought process, execution and calculated meticulous gameplay to last 3 rounds.

2) I'm a MoS/Displacer main, but, revisit your frames post patch again. The b14 LRC 21 is just another legitimate 50/50 that you need to block. But, yes, if you guess right on his overhead, Raiden eats 40+%. If you block the low, he can't FBC no energy. Is Raiden dishonest? Absolutely not. You're sacrificing a max damage hard knockdown oki option in restands to get a 50/50.

Here's Destroyer tossing that restand tech all day long with TG and getting his ass hammered.

Is TG dishonest? Here's two of the best TGs getting beat by someone who knows how to handle the matchup.



MKX cannot be put down just because it is difficult or defensively complex or "different" from other FGs. I myself am a Tekken veteran. There is atleast one variation of the lowest tier character in MKX that can go head to toe against any S-tier in the game and be successful. Under this notion, it is the most balanced roster. This cannot be said for ANY FG out there. MKX is a unique masterpiece in its own right. Many of us on the Tekken scene enjoyed MKX because of how harsh it was. Playing MKX helped expand my perspective and improved my Tekken, to be quite honest.
How is taking time in the lab to learn flawless blocking strings any less difficult that taking time in the lab to learn how to armour through strings and gaps? You're telling me that you believe that inputting a button within 4 frames of a move connecting and then doing a reversal u2/u3 is easier than inputting an armour move that has far more leniency in timing?
 

Eddy Wang

Skarlet scientist
Execution barrier is never taken into account when determining balance or characters. Doesn't matter how "hard" it is to perform the execution to use said tools, the character has them...
Kazuya, Jin, Devil Jin, Akira Yuki, Lee, Skarlet in MK9

Those are just a few examples of characters who balance is determined by execution barriers.
Usually those characters are all strong, but you won't achieve such result if you don't bypass the barrier they offer.
 
I think mk11 is less scrubby than most recent fighting games. Many different mechanics and counters vs everything and no auto-play like weeb or alive 6 which plays itself with 50% dmg throws + high environmental damage and invul sidesteps
 

Amneoss

Knowledge is Power
We have all heard and all have the same gripes about this games meta and I have a small theory about it and this could probably just be salt talking...but let me know what you think.

My theory is that this game was purposely made somewhat easy play just to please the average scrub that doesn’t have the discipline or execution to pull of combos....strictly to make it accessible and boost sales.

The reasons are as follows.

1. D2 KBs and D2’s in general.
They are so easy to land as a mashed out whiff punish as most strings that lead to damage through full combo extension are highs and they do a ton of damage.

2. Throws. Don’t get me started. 14 percent? For one button repeatedly mashed any where up close. I can easily say I’ve taken more damage in the corner of throws playing this game than combos over the course of my 500 or so matches.

3. Air escape leading to a punish opportunity. It’s serious bullshit that someone can get a punish out of getting opened up. It makes have to think twice about continuing my combo and time a get someone opened up cause I could possibly my get punished for doing well enough to get the hit and having the execution to pull off a full combo.

4. Fatal blows. Let’s just be honest. This is the “win button” for those that can’t close out and get a legit win in a close match.

All four of these things are just ridiculous and need to be changed for this game to remain any fun I’m my opinion. I like the back and forth of a good hard fought match but with shit mechanics like these you don’t get those kind of matches often.

My suggestions...

1. D2’s need to be less safe and put out less damage.

2. Throws need to be nerded to 12 percent or made more risky.

3. The air break needs to be back to the MKX mechanic of a nuetral reset.

4. KBs need to be back to a whiff and lose it risk reward situation.

I can honestly say I’ve tried so hard to enjoy this game like I did MKX. But it’s just not happening cause of shit like this. I used to literally have to tear myself away from MKX after 3 to 4 hours of playing and even then I couldn’t wait to play again. MK11 keeps me interested for about an hour tops every time even when Im winning it’s not that much fun because scrub tactics are strong on this game.
Yes, and it's a good thing.
Casuals are the biggest gaming audience do you want to sell to thousands of "hardcore" gamers or millions of casuals.
Nothing wrong with being a casual or catering to casuals.
If you think there is maybe you need to take a step back and get a different perspective.
 

Kindred

Let Be Be Finale Of Seem
Of course it was. The slower pace benefits both casuals and serious gamers. It's slower for noobs and more footsie based for good players.
The automatically refilling meters is very noob friendly, the non-existent chip damage when you're about to lose is very noob friendly, the 14% dmg grabs is noob friendly.
 

Cashual

PSN: Cansuela
I was hammering home your point on execution not being the yak stick we should use in determining the difficulty in fighting games, but I suppose it's my writing that needs work since it's the second time people read through my post supporting them and get to the conclusion that I'm against them
All good man! I think because you didn’t explicitly say something like “yeah, I agree....” or “exactly.....”

It seemed like you were posing a counter argument, no worries dude.
 

Cashual

PSN: Cansuela
They aren’t, lol.

Not in this series. Proper spacing, understanding punishes/opportunity, frame data/traps, flawless blocking....all of those things are more difficult than executing a combo.

Like who can’t do combos if they find a guide on YouTube? Give me a break. There’s not enough of an execution barrier in NRS games for that to be the issue of whether a game is casual friendly or not.
 

Cashual

PSN: Cansuela
you go around talking about how combos and execution don't make a game difficult but try telling that to REAL CASUALS. the ones that don't touch mvc3, the ones that don't touch kof games, or the ones that barely touch any anime game. You and I might know that but they don't think about that. they hear game is hard, game has hard combos, game has long combos, then game is not for me. you can crusade as much as you want but all the mechanical depth is not what brings in most of the casuals.
Tons of online casuals can do extended and even optimal combos....but they can’t hit confirm a 3 hit string and commit to an unsafe launching special. I’ve never not once seen someone play good neutral and not be able to get damage, yet I see people who can do 40-50% combos but can’t play neutral whatsoever and only land combos when they do ridiculous hard read yolo shit.
 
I feel like breakaway should be like injustice where you were invincible on the way down but that’s just me lol. Seeing people use FB on someone breakaway that hits and even animates fully is something lol. Thread is good man, I feel like the game is great and I feel like everyone is gonna have things they like and don’t about this game , so it’s not pointless , I’m sure many of you who posted here already have something about this game you don’t like.
 
Tons of online casuals can do extended and even optimal combos....but they can’t hit confirm a 3 hit string and commit to an unsafe launching special. I’ve never not once seen someone play good neutral and not be able to get damage, yet I see people who can do 40-50% combos but can’t play neutral whatsoever and only land combos when they do ridiculous hard read yolo shit.
i mean there are some online players who know what they're doing but a lot of the casuals probably aren't online and most likely aren't optimal
 

xKMMx

Noob
I app
They intentionally designed this game to be nothing like MKX gameplay wise. Just go back playing X if you don't like 11?
Believe me dude I get it and you have a good point. If you don't like it don't play it right? But that's the thing. Ive spent the 60 bucks and I want to play and I want to enjoy it.
I don't feel its on NRS to make games that appeal only to my preferences. I'm just putting out there my opinions and seeing what other people think.
 

xKMMx

Noob
1- D2 compensate lack of combos and you have to be lucky to actually pull it off against pros so no, it’s not for casuals.
I’m not even going down the list, I already see you don’t understand the concept of MK11.
Yeah, it isn’t profound. Just like all other MKs. Play SF, Tekken, other games and you’ll realise non NRS game was meant for pros only.
Ha believe me I understand the concept. I'm simply saying its kind of a lame game in a way for my taste. But you sound like you get it based on your condescending tone so feel free to send me your gamer tag and teach me a lesson in MK11 concepts. Always willing to be shown where IM wrong if it makes me better.
 

xKMMx

Noob
Ha believe me I understand the concept. I'm simply saying its kind of a lame game in a way for my taste.
Don't wanna get punished when the opponent breaks away?

  1. Cut your combos short/find combos that set you up for favorable positions even if the opponent drops out.
  2. Play characters that don't allow the opponent to drop out. Sub Zero and Jax come to mind.
  3. Zone. Can't break away if they aren't getting combo'd.
THanks for the tips. I have been doing that now I just feel it takes away from the fun of the game to have to cut my combo short just because there is a mechanic in the game that makes me have to. But your right it is what it is and I have to play the game the way its made despite me not thinking its the best mechanic.
 

xKMMx

Noob
Difference in difficulty: MKX Vs MK11
MK11: Volleyball
MKX: Sepak Takraw

Note: Sepak Takraw, a southeast Asian sport which is essentially volleyball played with your foot. Soft mthrfkrs beware! Play volleyball and be less salty, a.k.a more happy instead.
Do not dare attempt Sepak Takraw : )
SO what your saying is MKX is a more difficult game and not for scrubs where as MK11 is for people that would not be successful in MKX?
 

xKMMx

Noob
Guess you didn't read my earlier post. IT went like this.
"""Execution wise, MK11 is Scrublord's paradise. No contest. For a Raiden main, mastering all the "optimized" combos, setups, etc for Displacer/TG/MOS (FBCs, VBCs, etc) in MKX would take an year of dedicated practice. In MK11, it would take 2 days. You would see the same trend in other series as well, SF4 Vs SF5. SF5 is heavily dumbed down execution in comparison to SF4, for instance. It is possibly the new business model to attract new players in a genre with a shrinking player base. Very few players have the dedication to meet the challenge for high execution requirements of years past and that is the reason.

So many dudes came out salty against MKX because it was extremely defensively difficult. It took deep character knowledge and extreme meter management, for instance, to armor out of gaps, plus frames, etc in opponent pressure. You had to compromise on mindless offensive meter dependent damage/pressure and resort to highly optimized meterless damage if you wanted to save your meter for defense. In MK11 scrublord's paradise, scrubs wouldn't get overwhelmed and still have defense if they did not know how to fight a difficult war hardened veteran's game. : ) """

Execution is one component. In short, the main thing in MKX is character knowledge and optimal meter management for defense as the game is real stingy on meter as well as defensively oppressive All your opponent's plus frame pressure gaps, etc can be gutted if you knew how to maintain defensive meter. It meant you can't go mindless with meter dependent damage or meter dependent pressure. You had to throw out highly optimized difficult meterless damage and stagger artfully.

I don't know about you, but some of us played plenty of footsies/neutral in MKX. IF you were stupid with your neutral game you got trapped in a 50/50. In other words, you got thrown in a 50/50 if you already lost the neutral game. And yes, the game was fast and required quality reads if your reflexes weren't that good.


Here you go, this is what high level MKX looks like. Is this doable for the average scrub? NO. The average scrub would be extremely unhappy if he ran into gameplay like this.


Thank you for making my point better than I ever could.
 

xKMMx

Noob
MKX: oh I'm minus. let me throw out this safe multiple hits of armour move out. omg, this game has so much skill and knowledge.
If you think mk11 is for casual, watch DJT set against GunShow, they flawless block not only gap but also the opponent counter poking. Try to do it in a real setting and tell me this game is for casual.
Bro obviously the pros are going to do the things in this game that are super high level.
My point is that I feel they made it toooooo accessible.