Does anyone else feel like MK11 was designed for casuals?

[ol_dirty_blunt]

Yea I think you just want mkx back, they do gotta fix some shit, but overall the systems are solid

I do think it was made a bit easier for new people to pick up, but there is alot if advanced tactics and execution heavy options for people who prefer that

 

[Sazbak]

--- Oberyn Martell has entered the chat -----

Oberyn Martell: gg u fckn scrub. nice job mashing your noskill wake up Fatal Blow
u got completely outplayed all game and you win thanks to stupidass nrs design.

Gregor Clegane: git gud

 

[spidey300]

There are cancels in this game lol. The only difference is you don’t press block, just like mk9, probably the most beloved game in the series.

And also, combos just aren’t difficult. It’s funny to me that people equate combos with being an advanced game. Literally ANYONE can spend an hour in practice mode and learn combos.

There’s nothing casual about a game with emphasis on spacing and whiff punishing. And honestly, there’s some links in MK11 that are every bit as difficult as mkx combos (I’m talking optimals).

This game has emphasized the fact that most of the player base thinks that being able to execute damaging combos equals being “good” and it just doesn’t. It’s loterally the easiest part of the game.

I don't know what you're so upset for. I never said mk11 was a casual game. I was just saying they removed elements from the previous game (mkx) that casuals obviously weren't a fan of. if you're not a casual you can't speak for them but those people who bought the game to just play single player content and never touch online, couldn't solidly do run cancels and there were a lot of complaints about mkx having long combos. there's a big difference in mk11 cancels and mkx run cancels since apparently they couldn't handle the button input or how tight it was.

 

[magandi]

casual gets hit by fatal blow and calls it a casual mechanic. golden.

 

[spidey300]

I don’t understand....that was my entire point. That combos and execution are not what makes a game “difficult” and that people claiming that MK11 is for casuals due to the relative lack of complex combos is total bullshit.

MKX is one of the most casual friendly fighting games of all time due to how much the game revolved around the ability to quickly get in and apply offense designed around pressure or mixups.

And I’m sorry, but this narrative that the execution in mkx was higher than MK11 just isn’t really true. People always point to the 3 loops of f11f2 or whatever the string is for Raiden as this really hard combo, and it’s not that hard. Before MK11 dropped I took Raiden to practice and had that combo consistently with maybe an hour of practice total across a couple sit downs.

I guess I’m not sure why you quoted me and then made your post because it seems like you’re disagreeing with me. I’m not sure if you misunderstood the point of my post or maybe you’re just trying to emphasize my point, not sure.

Either way, mkx was not for “serious” play because of lengthier combos, and MK11 is not for casual play because it has shorter combos. MK11 puts emphasis on getting into position to do damage which is much more difficult and takes more skill than just relentlessly applying offense.

The flawless block mechanic, lack of armored launchers, the fact that wake up options all have counter play, the ability to strategically dole out krushing blows situationally, etc. all make MK11 a more competitive game.

None of this is to say that MK11 is....flawless....no pun intended. Characters with bad KBs get mopped and fatal blows are a bit over the top (for some characters), and the proliferation of highs and the way the poke game works are all a bit iffy, but the game is good and will get better imo.

you go around talking about how combos and execution don't make a game difficult but try telling that to REAL CASUALS. the ones that don't touch mvc3, the ones that don't touch kof games, or the ones that barely touch any anime game. You and I might know that but they don't think about that. they hear game is hard, game has hard combos, game has long combos, then game is not for me. you can crusade as much as you want but all the mechanical depth is not what brings in most of the casuals.

 

[magandi]

yes sadly the easier combos are the result of making the game more casual friendly. everything else is not.

 

[magandi]

That combos and execution are not what makes a game “difficult”...

 

[SwiftEagle]

you go around talking about how combos and execution don't make a game difficult but try telling that to REAL CASUALS. the ones that don't touch mvc3, the ones that don't touch kof games, or the ones that barely touch any anime game. You and I might know that but they don't think about that. they hear game is hard, game has hard combos, game has long combos, then game is not for me. you can crusade as much as you want but all the mechanical depth is not what brings in most of the casuals.

Good point. It's the blood, gore, and sex appeal. But now in MK11 it's just the blood and gore. The crushing blows are in place of combos. I got so good at spacing due to the cheap uppercuts that's it's basically a free combo. The hate mail and salt keeps flowing. The scrubs usually attempt fatal blows as a last resort. That's when you spam projectiles

 

[spidey300]

Good point. It's the blood, gore, and sex appeal. But now in MK11 it's just the blood and gore. The crushing blows are in place of combos. I got so good at spacing due to the cheap uppercuts that's it's basically a free combo. The hate mail and salt keeps flowing. The scrubs usually attempt fatal blows as a last resort. That's when you spam projectiles

that's when you spam projectiles huh. erron black has entered the chat

 

[NeonGroovyGator]

It doesn't matter how flashy and hard to execute anything in MKX because there's nothing fundamentally hard about a coinflip circus.
I don't give a fuck about hard to execute combos. I want a game that is competitive and strategic, and MK11 is shaping up to be 100000x more of those things than MKX ever was.
Either learn to play footsies and strategy or stay in MKX or another turn-based RPG of your liking.

 

[kabelfritz]

its no secret that really powerful moves are really easy in mk, it has been like that for a while. while i find it annoying, fact is also:

1. you have these moves too.
2. if you lose to them, you probably have to change your mindset

 

[SwiftEagle]

that's when you spam projectiles huh. erron black has entered the chat

Apologize for assuming I use Erron Black. I would never lower myself to that level. If guys want to play cheap against me, I can do it right back.

It doesn't matter how flashy and hard to execute anything in MKX because there's nothing fundamentally hard about a coinflip circus.
I don't give a fuck about hard to execute combos. I want a game that is competitive and strategic, and MK11 is shaping up to be 100000x more of those things than MKX ever was.
Either learn to play footsies and strategy or stay in MKX or another turn-based RPG of your liking.

Not every character had 50/50s in MKX. It's very hypocritical to use 50/50s as the reason why MK11 is more skill based since some characters have them in MK11 too. High level matches weren't a coin flip, you probably just couldn't handle it.
Crushing blows are in place of combos in MK11, because of the complainers.
You guys love using the word "flashy", while ignoring the long grab times, 1.5 second crushing blows, 15-30 second fatalities, and 7-10 second fatal blow animations.

 

[Kenshi-Keanu-Kool]

We have all heard and all have the same gripes about this games meta and I have a small theory about it and this could probably just be salt talking...but let me know what you think.

My theory is that this game was purposely made somewhat easy play just to please the average scrub that doesn’t have the discipline or execution to pull of combos....strictly to make it accessible and boost sales.

The reasons are as follows.

1. D2 KBs and D2’s in general.
They are so easy to land as a mashed out whiff punish as most strings that lead to damage through full combo extension are highs and they do a ton of damage.

2. Throws. Don’t get me started. 14 percent? For one button repeatedly mashed any where up close. I can easily say I’ve taken more damage in the corner of throws playing this game than combos over the course of my 500 or so matches.

3. Air escape leading to a punish opportunity. It’s serious bullshit that someone can get a punish out of getting opened up. It makes have to think twice about continuing my combo and time a get someone opened up cause I could possibly my get punished for doing well enough to get the hit and having the execution to pull off a full combo.

4. Fatal blows. Let’s just be honest. This is the “win button” for those that can’t close out and get a legit win in a close match.

All four of these things are just ridiculous and need to be changed for this game to remain any fun I’m my opinion. I like the back and forth of a good hard fought match but with shit mechanics like these you don’t get those kind of matches often.

My suggestions...

1. D2’s need to be less safe and put out less damage.

2. Throws need to be nerded to 12 percent or made more risky.

3. The air break needs to be back to the MKX mechanic of a nuetral reset.

4. KBs need to be back to a whiff and lose it risk reward situation.

I can honestly say I’ve tried so hard to enjoy this game like I did MKX. But it’s just not happening cause of shit like this. I used to literally have to tear myself away from MKX after 3 to 4 hours of playing and even then I couldn’t wait to play again. MK11 keeps me interested for about an hour tops every time even when Im winning it’s not that much fun because scrub tactics are strong on this game.

you are so right bro . set ups and gimmicks mean nothing in this game . just activate the krushing blows , mash d2 an the ein is free .

 

[Kenshi-Keanu-Kool]

LMAO.
This guy is saying MK11 is designed for nubs and casuals and one of his complains is the fact that he has to think twice before doing his combo.

Every of your complaint is just game mechanic that is counterable. Maybe start asking yourself why you are get mashed all the time, why you are get thrown all the time, why you can't read air escapes and why you get hit by every fatal blow. Maybe it's not the scrub tactics that are strong in this game, but you are just weak?

LMAO !! Now thats what i call EGO !! How is the guy saying he doesn't like the mechanic of the game makes him weak ?!! lool AMAZING LOGIC !!

 

[spidey300]

Apologize for assuming I use Erron Black. I would never lower myself to that level. If guys want to play cheap against me, I can do it right back.

Not every character had 50/50s in MKX. It's very hypocritical to use 50/50s as the reason why MK11 is more skill based since some characters have them in MK11 too. High level matches weren't a coin flip, you probably just couldn't handle it.
Crushing blows are in place of combos in MK11, because of the complainers.
You guys love using the word "flashy", while ignoring the long grab times, 1.5 second crushing blows, 15-30 second fatalities, and 7-10 second fatal blow animations.

lol never. nah I'm just saying gotta watch out for these full screen fatal blows lol

 

[Mandolore1123]

I don’t understand....that was my entire point. That combos and execution are not what makes a game “difficult” and that people claiming that MK11 is for casuals due to the relative lack of complex combos is total bullshit.

MKX is one of the most casual friendly fighting games of all time due to how much the game revolved around the ability to quickly get in and apply offense designed around pressure or mixups.

And I’m sorry, but this narrative that the execution in mkx was higher than MK11 just isn’t really true. People always point to the 3 loops of f11f2 or whatever the string is for Raiden as this really hard combo, and it’s not that hard. Before MK11 dropped I took Raiden to practice and had that combo consistently with maybe an hour of practice total across a couple sit downs.

I guess I’m not sure why you quoted me and then made your post because it seems like you’re disagreeing with me. I’m not sure if you misunderstood the point of my post or maybe you’re just trying to emphasize my point, not sure.

Either way, mkx was not for “serious” play because of lengthier combos, and MK11 is not for casual play because it has shorter combos. MK11 puts emphasis on getting into position to do damage which is much more difficult and takes more skill than just relentlessly applying offense.

The flawless block mechanic, lack of armored launchers, the fact that wake up options all have counter play, the ability to strategically dole out krushing blows situationally, etc. all make MK11 a more competitive game.

None of this is to say that MK11 is....flawless....no pun intended. Characters with bad KBs get mopped and fatal blows are a bit over the top (for some characters), and the proliferation of highs and the way the poke game works are all a bit iffy, but the game is good and will get better imo.

I was hammering home your point on execution not being the yak stick we should use in determining the difficulty in fighting games, but I suppose it's my writing that needs work since it's the second time people read through my post supporting them and get to the conclusion that I'm against them

 

[AbeW]

D'Vorah, Kotal Khan, Shao Khan, Johnny Cage, Kano, Frost, and a few others; you're saying these characters aren't out of reach by Jacqui, Geras, and Erron Black. This is the most ridiculous statement I've ever heard pertaining to this game. I really don't know what to say to someone who thinks any of the listed characters above stand a chance right now. It really comes off as fanboying to be honest.
Most of the people here probably didn't start with MK3 either. I noticed a lot of them started with the series with MK9. MK11 enforces the stereotype that MK is the most casual fighting game, and the people that play it don't play other fighters.
MKX almost had it right. The bad players had their characters, the hypocrites had grandmaster Sub Zero (people who hated fighting), and the good players had reptile, Swarm Queen D'Vorah, etc.
You and others claim that MK11 isn't "as flashy". What exactly do you all mean? I've yet to play a ranked set where somebody doesn't attempt a fatal blow, forcing me to sit through an animation I've seen literally hundreds of times. The fatalities are longer than ever, and people still don't understand that it wastes so much time during sets. Just get on with the matches. Hearts aren't a good enough excuse. There's an endless Klassic Tower to farm hearts. Set it to Easy and you're good to go.
Serious changes need to happen, and there's nothing traditional or great about a randomized, monetized Krypt.

Isn't it funny that the loudest mouthpiece for "footsies footsies, neutral, neutral, MK11 MK11 Hurrah Hurrah...." also mained the character with the single biggest neutral breaking move in MK history.

It was so very easy for a scrub to not take any responsibility for his losses and claim "i guessed wrong on a 50/50 and that's solely why i lost"..... Nah man, you screwed up a lot more than that and that's why you lost.

IMO, MKX's biggest flaw was that it did not filter and match players up based on skill level (no smart code). I guess it's really hard to make the code that smart. But, If they'd done that, a.k.a Scrub meets Scrub only, Skilled player meets Skilled player only, all these salty loud mouthpieces would not have arose. In reality, a whole lotta scrubs with big fat Bo Rai Cho sized egos typical of the FGC (who thought they were all that) would get paired up frequently against someone who knew what they were doing and get their asses violated. The rest is history, a loud salty outcry.

 

[SwiftEagle]

lol never. nah I'm just saying gotta watch out for these full screen fatal blows lol

I think only Erron and Frost have full screen fatal blows. I could be wrong. Frost is so bad that you can usually just trash her in a matter of seconds. So you don't have to worry about hers too much. From my experience, Sub Zero players always use fatal blows. I really don't know what it is. I was contemplating earlier that maybe they do the things they do, fatal blows in this case, because they're not using Scorpion. They think to themselves, "I don't use Scorpion, so playing like a complete try hard really doesn't matter."
It's an ego problem. Sub Zero players in MK11 tbag and send hate mail the most from what I've seen.
I'm just glad he doesn't have an ice clone. That was worse than cancer.

 

[SwiftEagle]

I was hammering home your point on execution not being the yak stick we should use in determining the difficulty in fighting games, but I suppose it's my writing that needs work since it's the second time people read through my post supporting them and get to the conclusion that I'm against them

lol

 

[spidey300]

Isn't it funny that the loudest mouthpiece for "footsies footsies, neutral, neutral, MK11 MK11 Hurrah Hurrah...." also mained the character with the single biggest neutral breaking move in MK history.

It was so very easy for a scrub to not take any responsibility for his losses and claim "i guessed wrong on a 50/50 and that's solely why i lost"..... Nah man, you screwed up a lot more than that and that's why you lost.

IMO, MKX's biggest flaw was that it did not filter and match players up based on skill level (no smart code). I guess it's really hard to make the code that smart. But, If they'd done that, a.k.a Scrub meets Scrub only, Skilled player meets Skilled player only, all these salty loud mouthpieces would not have arose. In reality, a whole lotta scrubs with big fat Bo Rai Cho sized egos typical of the FGC (who thought they were all that) would get paired up frequently against someone who knew what they were doing and get their asses violated. The rest is history, a loud salty outcry.

scrub mentality and scrub complaints will never disappear. that's a sad truth of online fighting games.

 

[Danger317]

D'Vorah, Kotal Khan, Shao Khan, Johnny Cage, Kano, Frost, and a few others; you're saying these characters aren't out of reach by Jacqui, Geras, and Erron Black. This is the most ridiculous statement I've ever heard pertaining to this game. I really don't know what to say to someone who thinks any of the listed characters above stand a chance right now. It really comes off as fanboying to be honest.
Most of the people here probably didn't start with MK3 either. I noticed a lot of them started with the series with MK9. MK11 enforces the stereotype that MK is the most casual fighting game, and the people that play it don't play other fighters.
MKX almost had it right. The bad players had their characters, the hypocrites had grandmaster Sub Zero (people who hated fighting), and the good players had reptile, Swarm Queen D'Vorah, etc.
You and others claim that MK11 isn't "as flashy". What exactly do you all mean? I've yet to play a ranked set where somebody doesn't attempt a fatal blow, forcing me to sit through an animation I've seen literally hundreds of times. The fatalities are longer than ever, and people still don't understand that it wastes so much time during sets. Just get on with the matches. Hearts aren't a good enough excuse. There's an endless Klassic Tower to farm hearts. Set it to Easy and you're good to go.
Serious changes need to happen, and there's nothing traditional or great about a randomized, monetized Krypt.

you come off extremely ignorant and...yea. not even gonna bother.

 

[Wildabeast]

MKX felt way more scrub friendly to me, the neutral game was almost non-existant thanks to the run button and the overabundance of 50/50s only made that worse, generally weak anti-airs and way too many armored moves (to be fair, this became a problem with MK9 as well after all of the patches) were also annoying. MKX almost felt like a regression back to some of the 3d era's non-sense.

 

[Mandolore1123]

1) It took me 5 mins each of practice to flawless block so many strings in MK11. Meter in MK11 fills up stupid fast. I am never without meter. On the other hand, the required meticulous defensive meter management in MKX requires a whole different thought process, execution and calculated meticulous gameplay to last 3 rounds.

2) I'm a MoS/Displacer main, but, revisit your frames post patch again. The b14 LRC 21 is just another legitimate 50/50 that you need to block. But, yes, if you guess right on his overhead, Raiden eats 40+%. If you block the low, he can't FBC no energy. Is Raiden dishonest? Absolutely not. You're sacrificing a max damage hard knockdown oki option in restands to get a 50/50.

Here's Destroyer tossing that restand tech all day long with TG and getting his ass hammered.

Is TG dishonest? Here's two of the best TGs getting beat by someone who knows how to handle the matchup.

MKX cannot be put down just because it is difficult or defensively complex or "different" from other FGs. I myself am a Tekken veteran. There is atleast one variation of the lowest tier character in MKX that can go head to toe against any S-tier in the game and be successful. Under this notion, it is the most balanced roster. This cannot be said for ANY FG out there. MKX is a unique masterpiece in its own right. Many of us on the Tekken scene enjoyed MKX because of how harsh it was. Playing MKX helped expand my perspective and improved my Tekken, to be quite honest.

How is taking time in the lab to learn flawless blocking strings any less difficult that taking time in the lab to learn how to armour through strings and gaps? You're telling me that you believe that inputting a button within 4 frames of a move connecting and then doing a reversal u2/u3 is easier than inputting an armour move that has far more leniency in timing?

 

[Eddy Wang]

Execution barrier is never taken into account when determining balance or characters. Doesn't matter how "hard" it is to perform the execution to use said tools, the character has them...

Kazuya, Jin, Devil Jin, Akira Yuki, Lee, Skarlet in MK9

Those are just a few examples of characters who balance is determined by execution barriers.
Usually those characters are all strong, but you won't achieve such result if you don't bypass the barrier they offer.

 

[Peckapowa]

--- Oberyn Martell has entered the chat -----

Oberyn Martell: gg u fckn scrub. nice job mashing your noskill wake up Fatal Blow
u got completely outplayed all game and you win thanks to stupidass nrs design.

Gregor Clegane: git gud

This deserves more attention