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Does anyone else feel like MK11 was designed for casuals?

xKMMx

Noob
We have all heard and all have the same gripes about this games meta and I have a small theory about it and this could probably just be salt talking...but let me know what you think.

My theory is that this game was purposely made somewhat easy play just to please the average scrub that doesn’t have the discipline or execution to pull of combos....strictly to make it accessible and boost sales.

The reasons are as follows.

1. D2 KBs and D2’s in general.
They are so easy to land as a mashed out whiff punish as most strings that lead to damage through full combo extension are highs and they do a ton of damage.

2. Throws. Don’t get me started. 14 percent? For one button repeatedly mashed any where up close. I can easily say I’ve taken more damage in the corner of throws playing this game than combos over the course of my 500 or so matches.

3. Air escape leading to a punish opportunity. It’s serious bullshit that someone can get a punish out of getting opened up. It makes have to think twice about continuing my combo and time a get someone opened up cause I could possibly my get punished for doing well enough to get the hit and having the execution to pull off a full combo.

4. Fatal blows. Let’s just be honest. This is the “win button” for those that can’t close out and get a legit win in a close match.

All four of these things are just ridiculous and need to be changed for this game to remain any fun I’m my opinion. I like the back and forth of a good hard fought match but with shit mechanics like these you don’t get those kind of matches often.

My suggestions...

1. D2’s need to be less safe and put out less damage.

2. Throws need to be nerded to 12 percent or made more risky.

3. The air break needs to be back to the MKX mechanic of a nuetral reset.

4. KBs need to be back to a whiff and lose it risk reward situation.

I can honestly say I’ve tried so hard to enjoy this game like I did MKX. But it’s just not happening cause of shit like this. I used to literally have to tear myself away from MKX after 3 to 4 hours of playing and even then I couldn’t wait to play again. MK11 keeps me interested for about an hour tops every time even when Im winning it’s not that much fun because scrub tactics are strong on this game.
 

DragonofDadashov24

Let’s see whose fire burns hotter
1- D2 compensate lack of combos and you have to be lucky to actually pull it off against pros so no, it’s not for casuals.
I’m not even going down the list, I already see you don’t understand the concept of MK11.
Yeah, it isn’t profound. Just like all other MKs. Play SF, Tekken, other games and you’ll realise non NRS game was meant for pros only.
 

gitblame

Noob
LMAO.
This guy is saying MK11 is designed for nubs and casuals and one of his complains is the fact that he has to think twice before doing his combo.

Every of your complaint is just game mechanic that is counterable. Maybe start asking yourself why you are get mashed all the time, why you are get thrown all the time, why you can't read air escapes and why you get hit by every fatal blow. Maybe it's not the scrub tactics that are strong in this game, but you are just weak?
 
The air escape thing is a whole new mind game, for once you need to use your brain not only to memorize and execute your combo, but to also think and make a read whether or not you wanna continue your combo. Besides, when you make a read and stop your combo during their breakaway - you get free oki, what the hell are you complaining about. For instance, in MKX its even worse, because the breaker pushes you all the way back to neutral and you get no advantage on your opponent at all.

P.S. I am surprised that after 500 matches you still get punished by breakaways.
 

EMPRESS_SunFire

Regina George of discord
Actually it’s funny because all the stuff you pointed out is just not going to work against good people.

Yeah, good players use the d2 a lot but if you’re playing against a good player, the d2 krushing blow is a hard read that could get you full combo punished so it’s definitely not a scrub tactic.

Throws are very strong in MK games, d2 KB is actually one of the things that keeps them honest, and well, it’s an universal mechanic... once you get used they aren’t that bad.


Air Escapes aren’t that bad either, they only give the defender a punish in certain scenarios and now that everyone is getting used to them they actually put the defender in a bad position more than not. You can go in with the oki after an air escape.

Fatal blows... I actually agree on this one but only a very few fatal blows like Erron, Kabal, Geras, Cetrion, etc... make this scrubby because of how powerful they are as an attack on top of having it regenerate

Not to mention that the meta is still evolving and there is already a gap between people who are starting to use mechanics like flawless block and who isn’t. Some people like Slayer are already on another level with that, and scrubs are 100% not catching up on that.
Also combos might be shorter but max damage combos are harder than they were on previous MK games, and the damage overall is well rounded
 

Elias6999

Mournful Master
MKX was way scrubbier. Run obliterated footsies, all you had to to was run into grab or overhead or low to open up your opponent. I do get hit by a lot of scrubby D1 into throws, but its a very one dimensional gameplan that is easy to reverse, duck! IMO MK11 has the best gameplay of any NRS title, MKX was too rushdown oriented, and MK9 was straight up broken (but fun). Sure, the game isn’t perfectly balanced, but what game is on release?

When I get beat by scrub tactics, I don’t complain about the game, I find a way around it, because there is always a way around it (usually)
 
No Mk11 is not for casual. One of the obvious examples is jumping. In MKX we got super broken jump ins for a very long time before NRS decided to buff anti air "slightly" by nerfing jump attack hitbox "slightly".
In MK11 I feel the opposite. It's so hard to land a jump punch, landing jump kicks are easier, but it must be deep jump kicks in order to lead to combos, and deep jump kicks are easier to anti air.
On a side note: and then we got top tier Geras who plays his own jumping game. Why the hell does he have a body splashing jump ins that's impossible to anti air?
 

PeNNyw1ZE_TDC

Master level Noob
Throws are easily countered by uppercuts. You also can't throw out of the air anymore (). Though I agree they shouldn't be 14%.

Fatal blows to me aren't as annoying as the V trigger mechanic in street fighter 5. They can only be done once per match. All I would change about them is prevent them from recharging and make them unsafe. And... Maybe make certain fatal blows a little harder to hit. Why is Skarlets a standing high while Noob gets a full screen low?
 
We have all heard and all have the same gripes about this games meta and I have a small theory about it and this could probably just be salt talking...but let me know what you think.

My theory is that this game was purposely made somewhat easy play just to please the average scrub that doesn’t have the discipline or execution to pull of combos....strictly to make it accessible and boost sales.

The reasons are as follows.

1. D2 KBs and D2’s in general.
They are so easy to land as a mashed out whiff punish as most strings that lead to damage through full combo extension are highs and they do a ton of damage.

2. Throws. Don’t get me started. 14 percent? For one button repeatedly mashed any where up close. I can easily say I’ve taken more damage in the corner of throws playing this game than combos over the course of my 500 or so matches.

3. Air escape leading to a punish opportunity. It’s serious bullshit that someone can get a punish out of getting opened up. It makes have to think twice about continuing my combo and time a get someone opened up cause I could possibly my get punished for doing well enough to get the hit and having the execution to pull off a full combo.

4. Fatal blows. Let’s just be honest. This is the “win button” for those that can’t close out and get a legit win in a close match.

All four of these things are just ridiculous and need to be changed for this game to remain any fun I’m my opinion. I like the back and forth of a good hard fought match but with shit mechanics like these you don’t get those kind of matches often.

My suggestions...

1. D2’s need to be less safe and put out less damage.

2. Throws need to be nerded to 12 percent or made more risky.

3. The air break needs to be back to the MKX mechanic of a nuetral reset.

4. KBs need to be back to a whiff and lose it risk reward situation.

I can honestly say I’ve tried so hard to enjoy this game like I did MKX. But it’s just not happening cause of shit like this. I used to literally have to tear myself away from MKX after 3 to 4 hours of playing and even then I couldn’t wait to play again. MK11 keeps me interested for about an hour tops every time even when Im winning it’s not that much fun because scrub tactics are strong on this game.

I honestly couldn't have said it better myself. I just walk away feeling bad when I lose to shit like this. In MKX there was always a sense of discovering new tech. I was ranked one of the top 100 ranked players in Injustice 2. And now I just feel like I wasted the last three weeks playing something I'm genuinely starting to hate.

It's not just the 140 throws. Its that It's so easy to stagger strings in this game that they happen all the time. In MKX, when something was negative, you knew and you punished. Here, it's really not as obvious. Throws should not be 50/50's. You should be able to tech a throw by pressing L1, period. Most games are reduced to staggers and throws because there's no way to open people up any more besides whiff punishing, so matches drag on ad nauseam.

And Jump in's are crao. They may as well removed Jump in punches because you're never going to land them. D2 to the rescue.

Fatal blows are the icing on the cake really. They wanted to make something that shocked people.... oh it's shocking alright. Shockingly awful game design. I still can't believe they recharge in a few seconds. Every time I see Erron, Noob, or Kabal do their full screen Fatal Blows I want to throw up.
 

THTB

When's Syzoth?
We have all heard and all have the same gripes about this games meta and I have a small theory about it and this could probably just be salt talking...but let me know what you think.

My theory is that this game was purposely made somewhat easy play just to please the average scrub that doesn’t have the discipline or execution to pull of combos....strictly to make it accessible and boost sales.

The reasons are as follows.

1. D2 KBs and D2’s in general.
They are so easy to land as a mashed out whiff punish as most strings that lead to damage through full combo extension are highs and they do a ton of damage.

2. Throws. Don’t get me started. 14 percent? For one button repeatedly mashed any where up close. I can easily say I’ve taken more damage in the corner of throws playing this game than combos over the course of my 500 or so matches.

3. Air escape leading to a punish opportunity. It’s serious bullshit that someone can get a punish out of getting opened up. It makes have to think twice about continuing my combo and time a get someone opened up cause I could possibly my get punished for doing well enough to get the hit and having the execution to pull off a full combo.

4. Fatal blows. Let’s just be honest. This is the “win button” for those that can’t close out and get a legit win in a close match.

All four of these things are just ridiculous and need to be changed for this game to remain any fun I’m my opinion. I like the back and forth of a good hard fought match but with shit mechanics like these you don’t get those kind of matches often.

My suggestions...

1. D2’s need to be less safe and put out less damage.

2. Throws need to be nerded to 12 percent or made more risky.

3. The air break needs to be back to the MKX mechanic of a nuetral reset.

4. KBs need to be back to a whiff and lose it risk reward situation.

I can honestly say I’ve tried so hard to enjoy this game like I did MKX. But it’s just not happening cause of shit like this. I used to literally have to tear myself away from MKX after 3 to 4 hours of playing and even then I couldn’t wait to play again. MK11 keeps me interested for about an hour tops every time even when Im winning it’s not that much fun because scrub tactics are strong on this game.
1. d2s have the properties of being highs and classify as poking normals. Therefore, they are throwable during startup and can be read and crouched. Also, on more galactic reads, they can be flawless blocked to avoid the pushback. The KB is great, but these moves do have a risk to them.

2. 140 damage for a throw is actually not that bad. In most modern games where throws do not lead to combos, they tend to do roughly around 12-15%. MK11's throws also have one weakness that throws in other games do not -- they can be neutral crouched. This means that, on a read, they can be completely avoided and punished by full combo, whether using a starter string or d2 (which becomes a KB due to high attack punish). The throw loops can be rough, but unless you started FGs with later seasons of SFV, throw loops are pretty normal, and NRS has a really strong wakeup game to deal with the threat of oki from throws anyway.

3. Breakaway actually was nerfed from the beta builds. Using breakaway slows your meter regen, and (I believe) falls slower and/or leaves you on the ground a bit longer. Recovery on a lot of moves were nerfed as well. Breakaway is actually much better than a breaker. The problem with breakers were that they were complete get-out-of-jail-free cards unless the opponent opted for a less-damaging unbreakable combo, which has gotten less common since the mechanic's implementation into the series. There was no true counter-play that could punish a breaker attempt...just had to avoid it altogether. With breakaway, not only do fatal blows stop the armor that it grants, using it leaves you in wakeup position with no access to any wakeup options other than delayed wakeup. Considering the above-mentioned throw loops and the higher level of freedom for oki play for the aggressor, breakaways aren't nearly that bad.

4. Probably the only major issue of fatal blows is how far back some of them push the opponent. They cannot be just thrown out in any situation if your or the opponent's execution is tight. They are meant to actually be useful somewhere in a match, unlike X-Rays, and are not just free to toss out, lacking armor until the 5th frame and being very negative on block. Yes, you are essentially given availability to the resource during any round you drop to 30%, but you only get to land one, and that's it. If your opponent lands it far too early in a match, it's not gonna be there the next time their health drops so low.

Also, mentioning scrub tactics after saying you enjoy MKX so much is risky business, to say the least. There's plenty of arguments of scrub tactics in whatever you play, but if they work on you...are you really a better player than the "scrubs" who use these options?
 

SLy

Premium
Premium Supporter
Throws can be heavily punished. And not just by uppercuts lol. This is an anticipation issue not a game issue. Learn how to read your opponent. If you stay ready you wont have to get ready.

Mashed D2’s can be manipulated in your favor. Hit the lab and tighten your offense. If you get hit by a mashed D2 just know that you deserved it lol.

Air escapes!? Lol we’re just gonna skip to the next complaint.

I agree with your fatal blow concern and that is the only valid point in my opinion. Honestly these are casual complaints. Seems like you're going through a player phase outside of fatal blows. Just keep playing bro. You’ll be fine.
 
Mortal Kombat has always been a casual friendly game. It's one of the games where it's 'easy to pick, difficult to master' sort of thing. I main baraka and I think he's one of those characters that is meant to be easy to pick up and decent to play once you've mastered him, but if you pick, Cetrion, she's rather difficult and requires far more skill and effort, but once mastered she'd probably mop the floor with the best Baraka player.

Just an opinion.
 

Vslayer

The Shinnok Slayer
Premium Supporter
It really isn't, all 'gimmicks' are casual friendly, but in a tournament setting that wouldn't work, you still need to learn the deeper and harder mechanics of the game to be really great at it and not everyone wants to put in that work. Some people don't bother learning combos because they're hard to do, no one is playing Cassie online because her combos are hard to get down. Honestly, dude, I'm 66 and 60 with Cass online, that's 126 matches and no mirror match so far.

So to make the statement that the game is made for casuals and easy is just completely wrong.

Throws are good because a lot of characters are unsafe, and at higher levels, people know how to block strings and throws are sometimes the online way to make your opponent fear blocking up close. D2's are 'good', but they're still unsafe. If you don't want to get anti-aired by them, don't jump (which again is more of an intermediate to advanced good habit). The breakaway rarely leads to punish attempts, I don't see it often, not like in the beta where you could punish Scorpion really hard. I feel like they changed it, or maybe his spear recovery? KB's are fine, again if you're at a lower level they either won't combo off of it or they'll drop it (I still do sometimes). If there's no combo off of it, well, don't get punished.
 

grandabx

Noob
We have all heard and all have the same gripes about this games meta and I have a small theory about it and this could probably just be salt talking...but let me know what you think.

My theory is that this game was purposely made somewhat easy play just to please the average scrub that doesn’t have the discipline or execution to pull of combos....strictly to make it accessible and boost sales.

The reasons are as follows.

1. D2 KBs and D2’s in general.
They are so easy to land as a mashed out whiff punish as most strings that lead to damage through full combo extension are highs and they do a ton of damage.

2. Throws. Don’t get me started. 14 percent? For one button repeatedly mashed any where up close. I can easily say I’ve taken more damage in the corner of throws playing this game than combos over the course of my 500 or so matches.

3. Air escape leading to a punish opportunity. It’s serious bullshit that someone can get a punish out of getting opened up. It makes have to think twice about continuing my combo and time a get someone opened up cause I could possibly my get punished for doing well enough to get the hit and having the execution to pull off a full combo.

4. Fatal blows. Let’s just be honest. This is the “win button” for those that can’t close out and get a legit win in a close match.

All four of these things are just ridiculous and need to be changed for this game to remain any fun I’m my opinion. I like the back and forth of a good hard fought match but with shit mechanics like these you don’t get those kind of matches often.

My suggestions...

1. D2’s need to be less safe and put out less damage.

2. Throws need to be nerded to 12 percent or made more risky.

3. The air break needs to be back to the MKX mechanic of a nuetral reset.

4. KBs need to be back to a whiff and lose it risk reward situation.

I can honestly say I’ve tried so hard to enjoy this game like I did MKX. But it’s just not happening cause of shit like this. I used to literally have to tear myself away from MKX after 3 to 4 hours of playing and even then I couldn’t wait to play again. MK11 keeps me interested for about an hour tops every time even when Im winning it’s not that much fun because scrub tactics are strong on this game.
Absolutely, but it also has a bunch of outdated mechanics that still have no systems in place to balance them:

50/50 throws- There's no skill to breaking them since they all look the same. It's like putting three bullets in the revolver and hoping you don't get one of those three bullets after the spin. Then you have two different types of commands for teching them. To make it even worse, Krushing Blows are added just for flair. Needing to place the new mechanic anywhere we can, just because.

Chip-Kill - Everything does chip (even teching a freaking throw lol). Chip is fine and so is Chip-Kill, but MK doesn't have a system in place to deal with it (last breath is useless against multi-hit attacks, gap-less strings and DOT). When low on health, a comeback is highly unlikely because neutral means absolutely nothing at that point all thanks to no countermeasures to chip/DOT. Think about it for a minute. You're being punished for doing what you're supposed to do when you're attacked (defend). Blocking/teching is a punishment in MK. It's rather weird to make performing a skilled comeback through meter management and good hand/eye coordination useless, but then add...

Fatal Blow - The MK-Blue Shell. Seriously? There's no freaking reason for this to exist except to rubber-band matches like Mario Kart. Who the hell wants to see artificial comebacks assisted by the damn game? This is the neutral destroyer. The game slows down to a crawl because of how momentum-changing they are and all for little cost of a player getting their @ss kicked.

Ridiculous Krushing Blow conditions - A large potion of the cast has these KB conditions that just scream casual. They are highly unrealistic in a pro match.
 

Osagri

Fear the blade of Osh-Tekk
We have all heard and all have the same gripes about this games meta and I have a small theory about it and this could probably just be salt talking...but let me know what you think.

My theory is that this game was purposely made somewhat easy play just to please the average scrub that doesn’t have the discipline or execution to pull of combos....strictly to make it accessible and boost sales.

The reasons are as follows.

1. D2 KBs and D2’s in general.
They are so easy to land as a mashed out whiff punish as most strings that lead to damage through full combo extension are highs and they do a ton of damage.

2. Throws. Don’t get me started. 14 percent? For one button repeatedly mashed any where up close. I can easily say I’ve taken more damage in the corner of throws playing this game than combos over the course of my 500 or so matches.

3. Air escape leading to a punish opportunity. It’s serious bullshit that someone can get a punish out of getting opened up. It makes have to think twice about continuing my combo and time a get someone opened up cause I could possibly my get punished for doing well enough to get the hit and having the execution to pull off a full combo.

4. Fatal blows. Let’s just be honest. This is the “win button” for those that can’t close out and get a legit win in a close match.

All four of these things are just ridiculous and need to be changed for this game to remain any fun I’m my opinion. I like the back and forth of a good hard fought match but with shit mechanics like these you don’t get those kind of matches often.

My suggestions...

1. D2’s need to be less safe and put out less damage.

2. Throws need to be nerded to 12 percent or made more risky.

3. The air break needs to be back to the MKX mechanic of a nuetral reset.

4. KBs need to be back to a whiff and lose it risk reward situation.

I can honestly say I’ve tried so hard to enjoy this game like I did MKX. But it’s just not happening cause of shit like this. I used to literally have to tear myself away from MKX after 3 to 4 hours of playing and even then I couldn’t wait to play again. MK11 keeps me interested for about an hour tops every time even when Im winning it’s not that much fun because scrub tactics are strong on this game.
Throws are pretty much easier to tech in this game(atleast it feels like it) than mkx. It is much more rewarding to duck a throw in this game (if ducked, throw=death). Its fine with 140. If nerfed, 130.
The break mechanic is good, never getting punished coz of it, might be so if u just madly press buttons. For me, always my turn when opponent breaks.
D2 should be without rediculous pushback.
KBs are fine, most characters need them to be easier to do thou
 
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THTB

When's Syzoth?
Absolutely, but it also has a bunch of outdated mechanics that still have no systems in place to balance them:

50/50 throws- There's no skill to breaking them since they all look the same. It's like putting three bullets in the revolver and hoping you don't get one of those three bullets after the spin. Then you have two different types of commands for teching them. To make it even worse, Krushing Blows are added just for flair. Needing to place the new mechanic anywhere we can, just because.

Chip-Kill - Everything does chip (even teching a freaking throw lol). Chip is fine and so is Chip-Kill, but MK doesn't have a system in place to deal with it (last breath is useless against multi-hit attacks, gap-less strings and DOT). When low on health, a comeback is highly unlikely because neutral means absolutely nothing at that point all thanks to no countermeasures to chip/DOT. Think about it for a minute. You're being punished for doing what you're supposed to do when you're attacked (defend). Blocking/teching is a punishment in MK. It's rather weird to make performing a skilled comeback through meter management and good hand/eye coordination useless, but then add...

Fatal Blow - The MK-Blue Shell. Seriously? There's no freaking reason for this to exist except to rubber-band matches like Mario Kart. Who the hell wants to see artificial comebacks assisted by the damn game? This is the neutral destroyer. The game slows down to a crawl because of how momentum-changing they are and all for little cost of a player getting their @ss kicked.

Ridiculous Krushing Blow conditions - A large potion of the cast has these KB conditions that just scream casual. They are highly unrealistic in a pro match.
The throws are 50/50, but are also highs. You take away the 50/50 aspect, and throws become incredibly bad, since the tech windows are pretty comparable to Inj2, which had everyone looking like gods with how easy it was to tech them. Throw KBs are also good because some characters do have a hard time opening up opponents without throws already. The throw mechanic is designed with these characters in mind, and has its share of risks that do get exploited consistently.

Chip kill negation does impact matches. Also, flawless blocking exists, and it nearly completely negates chip damage. MK has always been a chip-heavy game, so it's gonna be a big part of matches throughout. The mechanics meant to negate that aren't gimme's for that reason.

Fatal blow impact will probably change down the line. Potential final round for me and it could be death? Yeah, I wouldn't wanna get hit. First round, or my life lead is substantial? I don't mind taking my chances.

I'll agree with that last point, though. That is certainly an issue.
 
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