Scorpion General Discussion

[Juggs]

one thing I don't like about scorpion is that he has no 3 hitting special cancelable string. I feel like b143 should be one.

b14 is hit confirmable. If b1 connects, b14 cancel, if b1 is blocked, b143 to make it safe.

Same with f42. Hit confirmable, if blocked go into f423.

Scorpion doesn’t need anything. He’s perfectly fine. I wouldn’t mind seeing TP become a high instead of a mid, wouldn’t really change much other than bad Scorpion players would be easier to beat.

 

[Hor_PeT]

b14 is hit confirmable. If b1 connects, b14 cancel, if b1 is blocked, b143 to make it safe.

Same with f42. Hit confirmable, if blocked go into f423.

Scorpion doesn’t need anything. He’s perfectly fine. I wouldn’t mind seeing TP become a high instead of a mid, wouldn’t really change much other than bad Scorpion players would be easier to beat.

High tele would kill Reborn I guess.
Only ducking on reaction or just D2 lol. No matter it is a cancel or normal.

 

[spidey300]

b14 is hit confirmable. If b1 connects, b14 cancel, if b1 is blocked, b143 to make it safe.

Same with f42. Hit confirmable, if blocked go into f423.

Scorpion doesn’t need anything. He’s perfectly fine. I wouldn’t mind seeing TP become a high instead of a mid, wouldn’t really change much other than bad Scorpion players would be easier to beat.

I'd say maybe f42 is more hit confirmable because of it's long animation. You b143 you're in your opponents face you're -5 and you're probably about to eat a throw. Scorpion's fine but you want to nerf teleport which is apparently his best tool. How does that make sense?

 

[Hor_PeT]

I'd say maybe f42 is more hit confirmable because of it's long animation. You b143 you're in your opponents face you're -5 and you're probably about to eat a throw. Scorpion's fine but you want to nerf teleport which is apparently his best tool. How does that make sense?

D1/D2/throw tech is your friend if you read a throw. But you are minus so you can be punished for it hard. Characters with only 13 frame mid has more difficult time though as 7F D1 can poke out throw, 13F mid. D1 check can be baited too. That's mind game.

With 9-11F mid which leads into combo the life is easier lol. You get the respect easier then you can throw.

 

[Juggs]

I'd say maybe f42 is more hit confirmable because of it's long animation. You b143 you're in your opponents face you're -5 and you're probably about to eat a throw. Scorpion's fine but you want to nerf teleport which is apparently his best tool. How does that make sense?

-5 is safe. If you know you’re about to eat a throw... duck? And I was saying he certainly doesn’t need any buffs. Only thing I could see changing is his TP going from a mid to a high. Wouldn’t really change anything other than random TP’s would be even more riskier than they already are. So it would help people stop complaining about Scorpion and his teleport. Essentially, if they nerf something that doesn’t matter it will be fine with me. Still will be stupid because he’s fine how he is though. Sorry didn’t make that clear in my first response.

 

[OutworldKeith]

Don’t know how you guys feel about this, but lately I’ve been ending my combos with 21. For example, f32xxAmpTP > f3 > 11xxAmpSpear > 21. Does 309 damage and leaves Scorp +19. This means f3, b1, b2, d1, and d4 all frame trap. You can even get a pseudo-safe jump from this set up.

Usually I’ll check them with the f3 frame trap then tick throw. That’s nets another 140 damage. You can play all of your f3 mindgames because it’s free.

Tell me what you guys think of it.

EDIT: here are some other combos for this set up.

D2KB > 4xxAmpSpear - 324
F34KB xx AmpTP > 4xxAmpSpear - 350
Anti-air 4xxAmpSpear >21 - 167
Basically any combo with Amp Spear

 

[Hor_PeT]

Don’t know how you guys feel about this, but lately I’ve been ending my combos with 21. For example, f32xxAmpTP > f3 > 11xxAmpSpear > 21. Does 309 damage and leaves Scorp +19. This means f3, b1, b2, d1, and d4 all frame trap. You can even get a pseudo-safe jump from this set up.

Usually I’ll check them with the f3 frame trap then tick throw. That’s nets another 140 damage. You can play all of your f3 mindgames because it’s free.

Tell me what you guys think of it.

EDIT: here are some other combos for this set up.

D2KB > 4xxAmpSpear - 324
F34KB xx AmpTP > 4xxAmpSpear - 350
Anti-air 4xxAmpSpear >21 - 167
Basically any combo with Amp Spear

I was thinking about the same 1 week ago but my conclusion was that I rather hit +90-100 for that (+)1 bar and play strong oki than use it for a potential thick throw pressure.
The potential damage after the standing reset is not too much to me. 140 compared to guaranteed 90-100.

Most damage comes from neutral and punish AND for 1 bar... if you cash out for 2 bars into reset your most damaging tool is the throw (other unsafe moves like F32xx DS is the same but for what cost!)... after 1 bar KB you have the chance to make it more but it will not a throw lol. And that means neutral started and it is not 100% chance to get your damage instead of the guaranteed.

But it is just my math-maniac optimization oppinion lol.

Of course as a pressure section it is a good idea and can worth the bar... it is fun too... but I do not see that on the long run more damage can be done from reset.
In MKX it was cool as it was free and the damage is still optimal.... here it isn't... cost a precious bar and less damage... and potential damage is not that big.

I think Scorpion's oki game is pretty good... and I feel he is designed to be rather oki than reset character.

What do you think?

 

[OutworldKeith]

I was thinking about the same 1 week ago but my conclusion was that I rather hit +90-100 for that (+)1 bar and play strong oki than use it for a potential thick throw pressure.
The potential damage after the standing reset is not too much to me. 140 compared to guaranteed 90-100.

Most damage comes from neutral and punish AND for 1 bar... if you cash out for 2 bars into reset your most damaging tool is the throw (other unsafe moves like F32xx DS is the same but for what cost!)... after 1 bar KB you have the chance to make it more but it will not a throw lol. And that means neutral started and it is not 100% chance to get your damage instead of the guaranteed.

But it is just my math-maniac optimization oppinion lol.

Of course as a pressure section it is a good idea and can worth the bar... it is fun too... but I do not see that on the long run more damage can be done from reset.
In MKX it was cool as it was free and the damage is still optimal.... here it isn't... cost a precious bar and less damage... and potential damage is not that big.

I think Scorpion's oki game is pretty good... and I feel he is designed to be rather oki than reset character.

What do you think?

Well, you’re right about Scorp having good oki. Most players breakaway as soon as you launch them. I find my opponent on the ground with no resources more times than not.

I guess it just depends on the match up. I hate ending with death spin and they fly full screen vs characters like Skarlet, but I love it against Jacqui lol.

 

[Matix218]

I was thinking about the same 1 week ago but my conclusion was that I rather hit +90-100 for that (+)1 bar and play strong oki than use it for a potential thick throw pressure.
The potential damage after the standing reset is not too much to me. 140 compared to guaranteed 90-100.

Most damage comes from neutral and punish AND for 1 bar... if you cash out for 2 bars into reset your most damaging tool is the throw (other unsafe moves like F32xx DS is the same but for what cost!)... after 1 bar KB you have the chance to make it more but it will not a throw lol. And that means neutral started and it is not 100% chance to get your damage instead of the guaranteed.

But it is just my math-maniac optimization oppinion lol.

Of course as a pressure section it is a good idea and can worth the bar... it is fun too... but I do not see that on the long run more damage can be done from reset.
In MKX it was cool as it was free and the damage is still optimal.... here it isn't... cost a precious bar and less damage... and potential damage is not that big.

I think Scorpion's oki game is pretty good... and I feel he is designed to be rather oki than reset character.

What do you think?

Id say it depends on who you are fighting and what the situation is. If you are fighting someone who you struggle to open up, take the damage when you can get it. If you have a life lead and want to keep up the pressure in hopes of getting a followup tick throw or another combo go for the 21 plus frames. It is nice to have the option at least

 

[spidey300]

-5 is safe. If you know you’re about to eat a throw... duck? And I was saying he certainly doesn’t need any buffs. Only thing I could see changing is his TP going from a mid to a high. Wouldn’t really change anything other than random TP’s would be even more riskier than they already are. So it would help people stop complaining about Scorpion and his teleport. Essentially, if they nerf something that doesn’t matter it will be fine with me. Still will be stupid because he’s fine how he is though. Sorry didn’t make that clear in my first response.

-5 and basically in your opponent's mouth. if it had more pushback no problem. duck and then eat a mid, ok. no people are complaining just to complain. maybe they should learn to block. as many teleports get thrown out at whatever level of play they're playing at then they should be blocking and punishing.

 

[spidey300]

D1/D2/throw tech is your friend if you read a throw. But you are minus so you can be punished for it hard. Characters with only 13 frame mid has more difficult time though as 7F D1 can poke out throw, 13F mid. D1 check can be baited too. That's mind game.

With 9-11F mid which leads into combo the life is easier lol. You get the respect easier then you can throw.

you're not gonna d1 them out of a -5 block string at least not online. I hear people talk about how good scorpion's d2 is, probably becuase of it's good pushback, so it can't be that much of a hard punish. throw teching is a complete guess. if anything you're going to eat your opponent's d1 if you try something.

 

[spidey300]

Don’t know how you guys feel about this, but lately I’ve been ending my combos with 21. For example, f32xxAmpTP > f3 > 11xxAmpSpear > 21. Does 309 damage and leaves Scorp +19. This means f3, b1, b2, d1, and d4 all frame trap. You can even get a pseudo-safe jump from this set up.

Usually I’ll check them with the f3 frame trap then tick throw. That’s nets another 140 damage. You can play all of your f3 mindgames because it’s free.

Tell me what you guys think of it.

EDIT: here are some other combos for this set up.

D2KB > 4xxAmpSpear - 324
F34KB xx AmpTP > 4xxAmpSpear - 350
Anti-air 4xxAmpSpear >21 - 167
Basically any combo with Amp Spear

standing 4 has 1 less frame of hit advantage but it is a more damaging button to help your combos when you reset. the only time i go for some standing reset is if i get a full screen ex spear. it might not be worth it spending two bars to reset. maybe if scorpion didn't have to meter burn spear to keep them standing.

 

[Alpha Centauri]

Sorry if this the wrong thread to post. Looking for any tips on scorpions f3, 11 juggle after tele ampd. I normally play SR so i do f32 into spear. But now that im trying reborn i feel my jabs whiff about half the time. Thanks

 

[Matix218]

Do the f3 a bit later than you are used to

 

[Hor_PeT]

you're not gonna d1 them out of a -5 block string at least not online. I hear people talk about how good scorpion's d2 is, probably becuase of it's good pushback, so it can't be that much of a hard punish. throw teching is a complete guess. if anything you're going to eat your opponent's d1 if you try something.

Online or not if you are -5 and opponent throws you can crouch 100%. However you might be right if you D2 - D1 too late the game writes: "throw kounter"... Probably it does not low profile yet in the first 1-2 frames? Or I dont know lol but experienced.

Okay I labbed my apologize spreading bullshit! Fortunately throws work like in IJ2 as if you do not have frame for that D1 it will not come out and writes throw kounter.
I am pretty sure it was not that way in MKX as my friend always D2 me when I was plus lol. But rather not spread more false info.

So yeah after -5 you can only do crouch to avoid throw or guess with the tech throw. First option is pretty risky lol. Especially against a character who has 9-11F MID launcher and he has absolutely no risk to drop it after -5. D1-D2 can low profile high moves though after -5 if the opponent likes dropping it.

By the way in the lab I could do the situation that after F423 which is -8 on block I did a D1 but probably a bit slower than fastest. Reversal throw whiffed and D1 hit. With a bit slower throw it said "throw kounter". Probably because when the reversal throw came out I was crouching then pressed D1 lol.
But at the end of the day it is also equal to crouching not real D1... good lesson for both side lol.
I am a bit confused though it was not what I expected.

 

[Hor_PeT]

Id say it depends on who you are fighting and what the situation is. If you are fighting someone who you struggle to open up, take the damage when you can get it. If you have a life lead and want to keep up the pressure in hopes of getting a followup tick throw or another combo go for the 21 plus frames. It is nice to have the option at least

You guys are right about reset it depends on the situation - and good to have that option too - much better than not having it lol - at least Scorpion CAN mixup his play not every character can do it.

NRS did a great job that they made this reset option well balanced to consider it carefully.

Everybody can decide how to approach Scorpion... from yolo teleport to footsie, oki or even reset play... or doing all at once!

 

[spidey300]

Online or not if you are -5 and opponent throws you can crouch 100%. However you might be right if you D2 - D1 too late the game writes: "throw kounter"... Probably it does not low profile yet in the first 1-2 frames? Or I dont know lol but experienced.

Okay I labbed my apologize spreading bullshit! Fortunately throws work like in IJ2 as if you do not have frame for that D1 it will not come out and writes throw kounter.
I am pretty sure it was not that way in MKX as my friend always D2 me when I was plus lol. But rather not spread more false info.

So yeah after -5 you can only do crouch to avoid throw or guess with the tech throw. First option is pretty risky lol. Especially against a character who has 9-11F MID launcher and he has absolutely no risk to drop it after -5. D1-D2 can low profile high moves though after -5 if the opponent likes dropping it.

By the way in the lab I could do the situation that after F423 which is -8 on block I did a D1 but probably a bit slower than fastest. Reversal throw whiffed and D1 hit. With a bit slower throw it said "throw kounter". Probably because when the reversal throw came out I was crouching then pressed D1 lol.
But at the end of the day it is also equal to crouching not real D1... good lesson for both side lol.
I am a bit confused though it was not what I expected.

Alright f423 is more minus on block but it somehow gives more pushback then b143 which puts it slightly out of throw range midscreen i believe. I wouldn't be so bold to d1 after it though unless I was desperate. Can't do any testing since I'm not home. All I want for scorpion is some slightly better frame data that's it. I looked at the frames in f423 and it seems it's way easier to hitconfirm with then say b14. I just don't really use it as much since bad frame data scorpion

 

[Bliss]

Yo. Been using Scorpion vs. the CPU (since I haven't played online yet).

Been doing: F4, 2, 3 into EX teleport into 4 into EX Spear into 212 for the fatal blow shit around 34% with DOT. Is this Reborn's staple BNB? Of course without the fatal blow you'd want to end with F4, 2, 3 right?

I know F3 is one of his best moves, only -2 on block and a good amount + on hit for the mix-ups.

I don't know if I've been doing this shit right.

I know 2, 1 is good + on hit too.

Doesn't F4, 2, 3 have a gap in it?

Is Scorpion as simple as he seems?

 

[jcbowie]

Alright f423 is more minus on block but it somehow gives more pushback then b143 which puts it slightly out of throw range midscreen i believe. I wouldn't be so bold to d1 after it though unless I was desperate. Can't do any testing since I'm not home. All I want for scorpion is some slightly better frame data that's it. I looked at the frames in f423 and it seems it's way easier to hitconfirm with then say b14. I just don't really use it as much since bad frame data scorpion

Scorpion does not need better frame data even slightly. His f3 staggers are destructive enough as is, his buttons generally are great, and teleport is the final word in neutral control. If anything he should be made more unsafe on a couple strings.

 

[Bliss]

Alright f423 is more minus on block but it somehow gives more pushback then b143 which puts it slightly out of throw range midscreen i believe. I wouldn't be so bold to d1 after it though unless I was desperate. Can't do any testing since I'm not home. All I want for scorpion is some slightly better frame data that's it. I looked at the frames in f423 and it seems it's way easier to hitconfirm with then say b14. I just don't really use it as much since bad frame data scorpion

Agreed.

 

[Matix218]

Yo. Been using Scorpion vs. the CPU (since I haven't played online yet).

Been doing: F4, 2, 3 into EX teleport into 4 into EX Spear into 212 for the fatal blow shit around 34% with DOT. Is this Reborn's staple BNB? Of course without the fatal blow you'd want to end with F4, 2, 3 right?

I know F3 is one of his best moves, only -2 on block and a good amount + on hit for the mix-ups.

I don't know if I've been doing this shit right.

I know 2, 1 is good + on hit too.

Doesn't F4, 2, 3 have a gap in it?

Is Scorpion as simple as he seems?

For reborn staple 2 bar bnb i use starter (11, 21, b14, f42), ex teleport, jump kick~ex teleport, f3~spear.

For 1 bar i use starter, ex teleport, f3, 11~spear (or 112 for a bit less dmg but more plus frames for oki). You can also end in the 212 after any ex spear for the krushing blow as you said.

21 is like plus 19 on hit. I would use b14 more than f42 because it is a ranged mid you can learn to confirm into 3 on block (totally safe) or ex teleport on hit.

F34 is great also.

For me scorp has great tick throw mixups, solid mids, and decent damage. With reborn you can mix stuff up with teleport cancels as well. In short, yes, he is a pretty simple character overall.

 

[spidey300]

Scorpion does not need better frame data even slightly. His f3 staggers are destructive enough as is, his buttons generally are great, and teleport is the final word in neutral control. If anything he should be made more unsafe on a couple strings.

Made more unsafe? You're kidding me. While people like gerras, erron, sonya, jaqui, baraka get to walk away with all the frames in the world.

 

[Hor_PeT]

Alright f423 is more minus on block but it somehow gives more pushback then b143 which puts it slightly out of throw range midscreen i believe. I wouldn't be so bold to d1 after it though unless I was desperate. Can't do any testing since I'm not home. All I want for scorpion is some slightly better frame data that's it. I looked at the frames in f423 and it seems it's way easier to hitconfirm with then say b14. I just don't really use it as much since bad frame data scorpion

Unfortunately F423 has ZERO push back and 7F jab can punish it for full combo. Not easy to find that frame though.
Plus F42 has huge gap and flawless block punish can come - so it is punishable enough to discourage players using it (nowadays probably does not matter as flawless block punish and precise punish are) - I do not do it either despite the fact that I know about it.

B143 is THE safe footsie string.

 

[Elias6999]

I really hate playing against Scorpion, its such a chore! What do you recommend I try against him? I can blow up his teleport just fine, its just his up close blockstrings (aside from 212) are really safe, and F34 is safe too, and his staggers are INSANE. Also DF4 is impossible to punish of you don’t have a fast advancing move.

 

[NaughtySenpai]

f423 used to have a gap in between in the beta, but doesn't anymore. Or at least 7 frame jabs can't interrupt between f42 anymore, haven't tested this vs. Sub Zero.
Online vs. 7 frame jabs, the 3 in that string is almost safe.

I guess a way to make this string viable is to play Reborn and hellport cancel on block. Should also beat flawless block retaliation, haven't labbed it though.