General/Other - Kung Lao Kung Lao General Discussion

[coolwhip]

Sorry, I was just adding to my posts from yesterday. I didn't read your post from before until now.

Sorry for the confusion.

Edit: F2 and B3 are pretty bad, if you play him as a neutral character, like Cybernetic Kano or Kotal Khan.

F2 is not a bad move at all, wtf? Not being a dick but that's a pretty odd statement.

 

[Youphemism]

I'll just leave it here.

Your B2 killed him, that's why it caused the reaction. It's a training mode only thing.

 

[Frizen]

Thanks for explaining

 

[The Dragon Chief]

Kung Lao is honestly a terrible character. If you hold block forever he can only throw you. Teleport can only be used as a punish to projectiles or full screen normals but only a few since it whiffs on almost any moving character. 24 into DB1 may be great at breaking armor but it removes his hat option so if you just block the hat he loses his spin option and combo options. I prefer 112124 DF1 for knockdown because it maxes damage and allows a follow up 112124 to break most armor and allows DB1 EX after they stand up but you only hit the final 4 and hat so 2% chip if they delay... Then after EX hat your options are trash. Either get beat by a poke with 112124 or B321 or land a D4 or F2 where neither can lead to a combo so you just get plus frames but you have no mix-up so you just get 4-5% chip into another shitty guess. F2 has a gap so it's a terrible stagger tool. But you see people use it because Lao is awful and sadly he has no better tool... So you sort of hope that your opponent has the reaction speed of a shitfaced eighty year old so you can hit them with teleports and his slow staggers that AREN'T EVEN PLUS. Lao's 11 is only +1 and with an 8 frame D1 any character with a 6 frame D1 beats him at every stagger. So what do you do? Spin. You spin like there's no goddamn tomorrow because that is your sole tool with Kung Lao. That's it. Spin. What do you get for a spin? 34%? So if it all comes down to guess right on spin as a 50/50 you are STILL at disadvantage seeing as how most characters can punish for more. And you have to have the bar in the first place. Kung Lao can only succeed if the opponent is making crucial mistakes. And that was all technical stuff. Less technical stuff is the overall feel of his neutral where his range is pretty lackluster. And his walking speeds don't avoid anything. You usually just D4 a lot at max range and throw out a few F2 if your near positive they'll hit because F23 is a nightmare to whiff and it's just as bad on block since it's a guaranteed armored reversal after the 3. So just do F2 DB1. If it whiffs you'll only be slightly screwed and if it is blocked you can hope your opponent can't react to the gap. B3 is a bad neutral tool on whiff as well and not as bad on block but it really doesn't setup for any good mixups. Just don't do moves he can punish with spin and then all you have to do is block. It's better to just give Lao some space and avoid the spin guess altogether and just play neutral with him since he has poor neutral tools. Just be ready for the desperate attempts for damage from a few hat throws or teleports. I know this rant is long as hell and props to you for sticking through it. Kung Lao is fucking trash. Every good competitive player dropped him, F0xy, Perfect Legend(at least PL is trying), Slayer, Forever King, DJT, they all dropped him. Even Boki at the ESL finals would rather use Takeda than his goddamn main. I play Tarkatan Alien for TWO DAYS and I can already beat players I couldn't with my over a fucking year main Kung Lao. If you play the character I suggest you get out while you can because I don't see a patch coming soon and I'm done taking this games freaking crap. I'm just ready for Injustice 2. I'll find some dirty character and play him and play any low tier characters I like in player match against scrubs so I don't have to feel like an idiot.

 

[myri]

Kung Lao is honestly a terrible character. If you hold block forever he can only throw you. Teleport can only be used as a punish to projectiles or full screen normals but only a few since it whiffs on almost any moving character. 24 into DB1 may be great at breaking armor but it removes his hat option so if you just block the hat he loses his spin option and combo options. I prefer 112124 DF1 for knockdown because it maxes damage and allows a follow up 112124 to break most armor and allows DB1 EX after they stand up but you only hit the final 4 and hat so 2% chip if they delay... Then after EX hat your options are trash. Either get beat by a poke with 112124 or B321 or land a D4 or F2 where neither can lead to a combo so you just get plus frames but you have no mix-up so you just get 4-5% chip into another shitty guess. F2 has a gap so it's a terrible stagger tool. But you see people use it because Lao is awful and sadly he has no better tool... So you sort of hope that your opponent has the reaction speed of a shitfaced eighty year old so you can hit them with teleports and his slow staggers that AREN'T EVEN PLUS. Lao's 11 is only +1 and with an 8 frame D1 any character with a 6 frame D1 beats him at every stagger. So what do you do? Spin. You spin like there's no goddamn tomorrow because that is your sole tool with Kung Lao. That's it. Spin. What do you get for a spin? 34%? So if it all comes down to guess right on spin as a 50/50 you are STILL at disadvantage seeing as how most characters can punish for more. And you have to have the bar in the first place. Kung Lao can only succeed if the opponent is making crucial mistakes. And that was all technical stuff. Less technical stuff is the overall feel of his neutral where his range is pretty lackluster. And his walking speeds don't avoid anything. You usually just D4 a lot at max range and throw out a few F2 if your near positive they'll hit because F23 is a nightmare to whiff and it's just as bad on block since it's a guaranteed armored reversal after the 3. So just do F2 DB1. If it whiffs you'll only be slightly screwed and if it is blocked you can hope your opponent can't react to the gap. B3 is a bad neutral tool on whiff as well and not as bad on block but it really doesn't setup for any good mixups. Just don't do moves he can punish with spin and then all you have to do is block. It's better to just give Lao some space and avoid the spin guess altogether and just play neutral with him since he has poor neutral tools. Just be ready for the desperate attempts for damage from a few hat throws or teleports. I know this rant is long as hell and props to you for sticking through it. Kung Lao is fucking trash. Every good competitive player dropped him, F0xy, Perfect Legend(at least PL is trying), Slayer, Forever King, DJT, they all dropped him. Even Boki at the ESL finals would rather use Takeda than his goddamn main. I play Tarkatan Alien for TWO DAYS and I can already beat players I couldn't with my over a fucking year main Kung Lao. If you play the character I suggest you get out while you can because I don't see a patch coming soon and I'm done taking this games freaking crap. I'm just ready for Injustice 2. I'll find some dirty character and play him and play any low tier characters I like in player match against scrubs so I don't have to feel like an idiot.

 

[myri]

Kung Lao just slow for a pressure rushdown character that hes main problem and plus hat trick full of bugs.
Kung Fu Master Kung Lao needs faster and more usefull normals and fixes in hat trick.
There is some resonable much needed buffs and nerfs imo.
Buffs
1) 6 fr S1
2) 9 fr 11
3) 8 fr B1 true mid -6 on block
4) 13 fr B3 -3 on block
5) 12 fr F3 +5 on hit
6) 11 fr F4 -6 on block
7) F34 +2 on block
8) and maybe F1 oh -11 on block
9) Hat trick hat a rang hitting opponent when its come back even if Kung Lao gets hit and maybe +3 on block
10) Hat trick hat trap setup -6 on block from mids and -3 from highs
11) Hat trick regular hat call back +1 on block

Nerfs
1) Tempest regular orb hat spin -6 on block
2) Nerf tempest damage -5%
3) Hat trick MB hat call back +7 on block
4) Nerf J3 and J4 hitbox and fuck it, make all hes jump ins negative but not punishable, like -5 or -6, we dont care.
5) Oh and fuck it, if scrubs cant punish teleport and divekick too, nerf that shits, make it -9999999 on whiff and on block, we dont even care, better having a better ground game, fast normals for up close game, more usefull normals and strings and playing more footsies than yolo jumping, teleporting and diveckicking like a crazy, against good players who knows match up that dont work.

Thats buffs and nerfs would balance him and he would be a strong, fair, balanced and complete character like a Jax, Shinnok and Kung Jin e.t.c imo.
NRS please, Paulo come on man, please. Do It! Just Do It!

No. Just no.

 

[myri]

Look, realistically all he needs is slightly faster walk forward and back speeds, slightly better backdash, maybe 7 fr s1/d1 and MAYBE (If we're super greedy) 9 fr d4, 11 fr b3 and MAYBE (If we pay Ed Boon a billion dollars) make ex hat spin +10 on block and FIX HAT TRICK.

But mostly his walk speeds, backdash and s1/d1.

 

[N00B]

No. Just no.

Yes, Just yes.

Look, realistically all he needs is slightly faster walk forward and back speeds, slightly better backdash, maybe 7 fr s1/d1 and MAYBE (If we're super greedy) 9 fr d4, 11 fr b3 and MAYBE (If we pay Ed Boon a billion dollars) make ex hat spin +10 on block and FIX HAT TRICK.

But mostly his walk speeds, backdash and s1/d1.

No, Just no. Lets agree to disagree.

 

[N00B]

Kung Lao just slow for a pressure rushdown character, he sucks up close and that hes main problem and plus hat trick full of bugs .
Kung Fu Master Kung Lao needs faster and more usefull normals and fixes in hat trick.
There is some resonable much needed buffs and nerfs imo.

Kung Fu Master Kung Lao needs;

Buffs
1) 6 fr S1 - Lao needs good buttons for up close game thats would improve hes bad up close game and he would can safelly gets out from a pressure, also its high. One of the Much needed, reasonable buffs imo. Reminder its not would jail in tempest cause of +7 pushback and again S1 its high.
2) 9 fr 11 - Another Much needed buff would improve hes bad up close game. Even if its +1 every character can escape it by poking out e.t.c. Anyway a lot of characters has it and even mix up character has it, anyway they already nerfed throws e.t.c.
3) 8 fr B1 true mid, but -6 on block and B12 string with better hitbox - Lao needs a 8 fr short range true mid thats would improve Lao s bad up close game, one of the much needed, reasonable buffs too. 8 fr B1 is more fun and its also woulde be fair balanced because its has a short range, -6 on block would be not Lao s turn and B12 -4 too and would not jail with +7 ex hat because of pusback and B1 has short range. For me, more fast usefull normals and strings for a rushdown character = more fun.
4) 7 fr D1 -10 on block - would be balanced.
5) 13 fr B3, but -5 on block - Its also much needed, reasonable buff its woulde be balanced because its not would jail into ex hat +7, and you can backdash then whiff punish, armor, e.t.c. #mindgames. 13 fr true mid with good range its absolutely balanced, not too fast and not too slow.
6) 12 fr F3 +6 on hit - first of all, more usefull balanced fast normals and strings = fun, second, its would be balanced because its stays -8 on block and has a long recovery on it.
7) 11 fr F4 - 6 on block - that s would be balanced because, its not a launcher, combostarter and -6 its not Kung Lao s turn. Also more usefull normals = fun.
8) F34 +2 on block and remove gap - Its also would be balanced because if F34 hits its knock down, and again more balanced fast usefull normals and strings for a rushdown character = fun, +2 its not much for a character withought mix ups e.t.c.
9) And maybe F1 hitting Oh, but -11 on block - thats also would be balanced.
10) Hat trick hat a rang hitting opponent when its come back even if Kung Lao gets hit and maybe +3 on block.
11) Hat trick hat trap setup -6 on block that starting from mids and -3 that starting from highs.
12) Hat trick regular hat call back +1 on block.
13) Fixing whiff issues in hat trick.

Nerfs
1) Tempest regular orbit hat -5 on block - Minus -5 would balance all of new fast normals, like 6 fr S1, 8 fr B1, -5 its not Kung Lao s turn.
2) Hat trick MB hat call back +7 on block.
3) Nerf J3 and J4 hitbox.
5) Oh and fuck it, if scrubs cant punish teleport too, nerf that shits, make it -9999999 on whiff and on block, we dont even care, better having a better ground game, fast normals for up close game, more usefull normals and strings and playing more footsies than yolo jumping, teleporting and diveckicking like a crazy, against good players who knows match up that dont work anyway.

Also reminder, Kung Lao is a rushdown character desighn withought good zoning, mix ups thats one of the reasons why all of this buffs, fixes would be fair and balanced and makes sense.
Thats buffs and nerfs would balance him and he would be more fun, cooler, strong, fair, balanced and complete character like Jax, Shinnok and Kung Jin e.t.c imo.
NRS please, Paulo come on man, please. Do It! Just Do It!

 

[myri]

Kung Lao just slow for a pressure rushdown character, he sucks up close and that hes main problem and plus hat trick full of bugs .
Kung Fu Master Kung Lao needs faster and more usefull normals and fixes in hat trick.
There is some resonable much needed buffs and nerfs imo.

Kung Fu Master Kung Lao needs;

Buffs
1) 6 fr S1 - Lao needs good buttons for up close game thats would improve hes bad up close game and he would can safelly gets out from a pressure, also its high. One of the Much needed, reasonable buffs imo. Reminder its not would jail in tempest cause of +7 pushback and again S1 its high.
2) 9 fr 11 - Another Much needed buff would improve hes bad up close game. Even if its +1 every character can escape it by poking out e.t.c. Anyway a lot of characters has it and even mix up character has it, anyway they already nerfed throws e.t.c.
3) 8 fr B1 true mid, but -6 on block and B12 string with better hitbox - Lao needs a 8 fr short range true mid thats would improve Lao s bad up close game, one of the much needed, reasonable buffs too. Better alternative would ve be a 7 fr D1, but tbh 7 fr D1 would be too lazy to get out from pressure up close and not fun. 8 fr B1 is more fun and its also woulde be fair balanced because its has a short range, -6 on block would be not Lao s turn and B12 -4 too and would not jail with +7 ex hat because of pusback and B1 has short range. For me, more fast usefull normals and strings for a rushdown character = more fun.
4) 13 fr B3, but -5 on block - Its also much needed, reasonable buff its woulde be balanced because its not would jail into ex hat +7, and you can backdash then whiff punish, armor, e.t.c. #mindgames. 13 fr true mid with good range its absolutely balanced, not too fast and not too slow.
5) 12 fr F3 +6 on hit - first of all, more usefull balanced fast normals and strings = fun, second, its would be balanced because its stays -8 on block and has a long recovery on it.
6) 11 fr F4 - 6 on block - that s would be balanced because, its not a launcher, combostarter and -6 its not Kung Lao s turn. Also more usefull normals = fun.
7) F34 +2 on block - Its also would be balanced cause of gap in there and again more balanced fast usefull normals and strings for a rushdown character = fun, +2 its not much for a character withought mix ups e.t.c.
8) And maybe F1 oh, but -11 on block - thats also would be balanced.
9) Hat trick hat a rang hitting opponent when its come back even if Kung Lao gets hit and maybe +3 on block.
10) Hat trick hat trap setup -6 on block that starting from mids and -3 that starting from highs.
11) Hat trick regular hat call back +1 on block.

Nerfs
1) Tempest regular orbit hat -6 on block - Minus Six would balance all of new fast normals, -6 its not Kung Lao s turn.
2) Nerf tempest damage -5%.
3) Hat trick MB hat call back +7 on block.
4) Nerf J3 and J4 hitbox and fuck it, make all hes jump ins negative but not punishable, like -5 or -6, we dont care.
5) Oh and fuck it, if scrubs cant punish teleport and divekick too, nerf that shits, make it -9999999 on whiff and on block, we dont even care, better having a better ground game, fast normals for up close game, more usefull normals and strings and playing more footsies than yolo jumping, teleporting and diveckicking like a crazy, against good players who knows match up that dont work anyway.

Also reminder, Kung Lao is a rushdown character desighn withought good zoning, mix ups thats one of the reasons why all of this buffs, fixes would be fair and balanced and makes sense.
Thats buffs and nerfs would balance him and he would be more fun, cooler, strong, fair, balanced and complete character like Jax, Shinnok and Kung Jin e.t.c imo.
NRS please, Paulo come on man, please. Do It! Just Do It!

You say that Kung Lao's pressure and up close game sucks so you want to make hat spin more minus (which is huge for his pressure in tempest) and nerf his damage in tempest (he gets high 30's low 40's for a bar, pretty normal so I dunno what you are thinking) and then give him faster startup on strings he never uses ever like b1, f1, f3, b4 etc?

And if people aren't capable of punishing teleport or divekick that's THEIR fault. Why should all his jump ins be negative, that's not how any character in this game works? I would never want faster startup on useless strings for worse tools everywhere else (teleport, divekick, hat spin) like I wouldn't care if f34 is +2 on block because it's a useless string and has a gap so why not just do f23 or 44 which have gaps but actually gives you a combo???

And you haven't even talked about his walk speeds and backdash which is super important. Lao has amazing whiff punishing abilities and if he was able to be faster on his feet in the neutral it could help him immensely. Sorry but faster startup on strings that are never used ain't worth shit if we lose everything that makes Kung Lao good.

 

[N00B]

You say that Kung Lao's pressure and up close game sucks so you want to make hat spin more minus (which is huge for his pressure in tempest) and nerf his damage in tempest (he gets high 30's low 40's for a bar, pretty normal so I dunno what you are thinking) and then give him faster startup on strings he never uses ever like b1, f1, f3, b4 etc?

And if people aren't capable of punishing teleport or divekick that's THEIR fault. Why should all his jump ins be negative, that's not how any character in this game works? I would never want faster startup on useless strings for worse tools everywhere else (teleport, divekick, hat spin) like I wouldn't care if f34 is +2 on block because it's a useless string and has a gap so why not just do f23 or 44 which have gaps but actually gives you a combo???

And you haven't even talked about his walk speeds and backdash which is super important. Lao has amazing whiff punishing abilities and if he was able to be faster on his feet in the neutral it could help him immensely. Sorry but faster startup on strings that are never used ain't worth shit if we lose everything that makes Kung Lao good.

I fixed to -5, i think orb hat spin with -5 on block with fast normals would be fine, you changed my opinion about that, yea -5 its perfect, i forget about they already nerfed hes damage yep not necessary nerfing hes damage too. With 6 fr s1, 9 fr 11, 8 fr B1, 7 fr D1 he will not be bad up close anymore.
Dude if he gets faster startup on hes B1 being true Mid, F3, F4 and F1 being OH thats normals which was useless would be very very usefull, for example 8 fr B1 -6 on block would be usefull up close, 12 fr F3 +5 on hit would be usefull in neutral, F3 has long range and can be cancelled into hat spin for a full combo like a lot of Lao normals and about F1 being OH, tbh if F1 would ve be combostarter its would be perfect making F1 8 fr instead of making B1, because F1 also like B1 has very short range, already true mid and would ve very usefull up close, F4 would be very usefull for OKI and in neutral, like Kung Jin s B3 or F3 but Jin can combo off of it. F34 being +2 on block would be usefull too like most of the big legs. F34 +2 would be very usefull string if its would be withought gaps.
But most important thing, fact Kung Lao is Kung Fu Master) so having fast normals for up close game and a lot of usefull balanced normals its just cool and very fun that would show in the gameplay why he is a Kung Fu Master, using that different fighting technicks e.t.c. )

Fuck teleport, i will not change my opinion. I accindentally wroted nerf divekick too but divekick doesnt needs nerfs because its already very punishable and on whiff its enough negative, not like Sonya s. Yep you are right about some jump ins not being negative, but J3 and J4 hitboxes needs to be nerfed, fuck it.

Walkspeed tbh not very important because you has divekick for mobility, maybe right now its not enough, thats why fast normals will change it and fast walk speed would be unecessary.
I agree only with a hat spin, yea i was thinking and that shit doesnt needs to be -6, because after almost every normal he will put himself in a too big disadvanage, from some of normals thats not worth it, -5 is perfect, but not -4 or -3 or less or its would be endless pressure which is unfair imo, and yea about damage i just forgot hes damage in tempest most off of his 2 fr link so with fast normals its would be fair and also 7 fr D1 -9 or -10 on block needs to be added too yeap. But i not agree with faster walkspeed, because fast normals for up close game and more usefull normals will cover hes lack of fast walkspeed. And you are wrong if you think that all normals would be useless, hell no, its would be usefull af and he would be more fun to play.
Ok just, lets agree to dissagree. )

 

[Tweedy]

Removing the gap in 112124 is huge.

 

[N00B]

Removing the gap in 112124 is huge.

Who said removing gap in 112124? )

 

[Tweedy]

Who said removing gap in 112124? )

I don't know if anyone did. I'm just saying, if a patch were to help Lao, removing the gap would be huge.

 

[N00B]

I don't know if anyone did. I'm just saying, if a patch were to help Lao, removing the gap would be huge.

Oh i was thinking, i wrote it and tryed to find where tf in my post i wrote it.

 

[The PantyChrist]

Who would rather have dive kick than faster walk speed for mobility?!?

 

[myri]

I fixed to -5, i think orb hat spin with -5 on block with fast normals would be fine, you changed my opinion about that, yea -5 its perfect, i forget about they already nerfed hes damage yep not necessary nerfing hes damage too. With 6 fr s1, 9 fr 11, 8 fr B1, 7 fr D1 he will not suck up close anymore.
Dude if he gets faster startup on hes B1 being true Mid, F3, F4 and F1 being OH thats normals which was useless would be very very usefull, for example 8 fr B1 -6 on block would be usefull up close, 12 fr F3 +5 on hit would be usefull in neutral, F3 has long range and can be cancelled into hat spin for a full combo like a lot of Lao normals and about F1 being OH, tbh if F1 would ve be combostarter its would be perfect making F1 8 fr instead of making B1, because F1 also like B1 has very short range, already true mid and would ve very usefull up close, F4 would be very usefull for OKI and in neutral, like Kung Jin s B3 or F3 but Jin can combo off of it. F34 being +2 on block would be usefull too like most of the big legs. F34 +2 would be very usefull string if its would be withought gaps.
But most important thing, fact Kung Lao is Kung Fu Master) so having fast normals for up close game and a lot of usefull balanced normals its just cool and very fun that would show in the gameplay why he is a Kung Fu Master, using that different fighting technicks e.t.c. )

Fuck teleport, i will not change my opinion. I accindentally wroted nerf divekick too but divekick doesnt needs nerfs because its already very punishable and on whiff its enough negative, not like Sonya s. Yep you are right about some jump ins not being negative, but J3 and J4 hitboxes needs to be nerfed, fuck it.

Walkspeed tbh not very important because you has divekick for mobility, maybe right now its not enough, thats why fast normals will change it and fast walk speed would be unecessary.
I agree only with a hat spin, yea i was thinking and that shit doesnt needs to be -6, because after almost every normal he will put himself in a too big disadvanage, from some of normals thats not worth it, -5 is perfect, but not -4 or -3 or less or its would be endless pressure which is unfair imo, and yea about damage i just forgot hes damage in tempest most off of his 2 fr link so with fast normals its would be fair and also 7 fr D1 -9 or -10 on block needs to be added too yeap. But i not agree with faster walkspeed, because fast normals for up close game and more usefull normals will cover hes lack of fast walkspeed. And you are wrong if you think that all normals would be useless, hell no, its would be usefull af and he would be more fun to play.
Ok just, lets agree to dissagree. )

Ok maybe if some of those strings were overheads then I could see them being useful but they still have pretty crap range compared to Lao's strings that he uses now like b3, f2, b2. I can't understand why you think teleport needs a nerf, you can literally neutral duck it and then full combo punish on reaction, it's only real use is for whiff punishing and baiting projectiles. Divekick does help with his mobility sure but it's not practical in any way because like we've already discussed it's super punishable on block and on whiff, also it puts Lao in the air which puts him at a huge disadvantage in a lot of situations. With faster walk speeds and backdash he could play footsies so well with his f2, b3 and b2 but you think I can just divekick in and do a string? I'll either whiff, which puts me at minus and I'm punishable or the enemy will block my raw divekick (unless they are terrible) and they get a free combo, it's an incredibly bad tool to just use in the neutral, I only ever use it in my neutral to escape the corner sometimes and that can even be punished depending on the opponent.

 

[Frizen]

Just reverse his changes from XL. He will be fine, universal system changes nerfed him enough

 

[Invincible Salads]

Who said removing gap in 112124? )

theres a gap in that string? since when, i thought the primary reason that string is used is because its gapless and jails into ex hatspin.

 

[HerbaList]

what lao needs is a 50/50 mix up that ends to overhead or low hat. like in mk9. everything else is just fine.

 

[N00B]

Ok maybe if some of those strings were overheads then I could see them being useful but they still have pretty crap range compared to Lao's strings that he uses now like b3, f2, b2. I can't understand why you think teleport needs a nerf, you can literally neutral duck it and then full combo punish on reaction, it's only real use is for whiff punishing and baiting projectiles. Divekick does help with his mobility sure but it's not practical in any way because like we've already discussed it's super punishable on block and on whiff, also it puts Lao in the air which puts him at a huge disadvantage in a lot of situations. With faster walk speeds and backdash he could play footsies so well with his f2, b3 and b2 but you think I can just divekick in and do a string? I'll either whiff, which puts me at minus and I'm punishable or the enemy will block my raw divekick (unless they are terrible) and they get a free combo, it's an incredibly bad tool to just use in the neutral, I only ever use it in my neutral to escape the corner sometimes and that can even be punished depending on the opponent.

Huh. F3, F34, F4 doesnt have crap range lol, right now they are trash because they are too slow, too negative but if its would be 12 fr F3 +6 on hit, F34 +2 on block and withought gaps, 11 fr F4 -6 on block its would be very usefull and would cover hes lack of fast walkspeed. 6 fr S1, 9 fr 11, 8 fr B1 true mid -6 on block and 7 fr D1 -9 on block would imrove hes bad up close game, he would be good up close, its very important. All that general buffs of normals is very important for a pressure, rushdown character, withoght mix ups like Kung Lao.
Walkspeed is not very important man, look on Jax hes walkspeed slow too, or Kung Jin, i might be wrong, but their walkspeed slow too, but they have fast normals in general + mix ups, pressure.
But tbh i wish they give him faster walkspeed too but if i should choose btw fast normals or fast walkspeed, i choose fast normals and more usefull normals all day, because its more important for a pressure character withought mix ups like Kung Lao. Or you want get raped, interrupted by kitana, jacqui, cassie, dvora up close because, you should know Kung Lao doesnt have fast safe effective options up close, except yolo spin and its very frustraiting, pressure character like Kung Lao having slower normals than zoning, mix ups characters smh.
For example make Jax s S1 8 fr, 11 11 fr, D1 8 fr and well see what happens even tho he has mix ups and some of kinda pressure but its would be not enough, he would ve suck withought fast normals up close just like Kung Lao suck now.
Kung Lao NEEDS fast normals for up close game because he is presure, rushdown character withought mix ups, and he NEEDS more usefull normals because he has no mix ups and he is freaking kung fu master and its makes hes gameplay more fun and he NEEDS that fixes and bufs for Hat Trick.
Thats it.

 

[myri]

Huh. F3, F34, F4 doesnt have crap range lol, right now they are trash because they are too slow, too negative but if its would be 12 fr F3 +6 on hit, F34 +2 on block and withought gaps, 11 fr F4 -6 on block its would be very usefull and would cover hes lack of fast walkspeed. 6 fr S1, 9 fr 11, 8 fr B1 true mid -6 on block and 7 fr D1 -9 on block would imrove hes bad up close game, he would be good up close, its very important. All that general buffs of normals is very important for a pressure, rushdown character, withoght mix ups like Kung Lao.
Walkspeed is not very important man, look on Jax hes walkspeed slow too, or Kung Jin, i might be wrong, but their walkspeed slow too, but they have fast normals in general + mix ups, pressure.
But tbh i wish they give him faster walkspeed too but if i should choose btw fast normals or fast walkspeed, i choose fast normals and more usefull normals all day, because its more important for a pressure character withought mix ups like Kung Lao. Or you want get raped, interrupted by kitana, jacqui, cassie, dvora up close because, you should know Kung Lao doesnt have fast safe effective options up close, except yolo spin and its very frustraiting, pressure character like Kung Lao having slower normals than zoning, mix ups characters smh.
For example make Jax s S1 8 fr, 11 11 fr, D1 8 fr and well see what happens even tho he has mix ups and some of kinda pressure but its would be not enough, he would ve suck withought fast normals up close just like Kung Lao suck now.
Kung Lao NEEDS fast normals for up close game because he is presure, rushdown character withought mix ups, and he NEEDS more usefull normals because he has no mix ups and he is freaking kung fu master and its makes hes gameplay more fun and he NEEDS that fixes and bufs for Hat Trick.
Thats it.

Sorry I was kinda vague, I meant b1 and f1 mostly. f3 is not that bad as is but there's no point to using it because a move like f2 exists. f34 knocks down so no point using it in the neutral even if it was +2 on block because of the pushback and recovery from the string. f4 is a double overhead and a combo ender into hard knockdown, it's fine how it is. As for Jax and Kung Jin their walk speeds might also be slow but they actually have full screen options. Jax has safe armour, same as Kung Jin (not for using at full screen, just stating it) they also have much better zoning tools at full screen and like you say mixups! This is why it's fine for them to have slow walk speeds because they have safe armour, they have zoning, they have MIXUPS!

Kung Lao can run in and do strings all day and you can just stand block unless he does f23 in which you block one low hit. Kung Jin and Jax have low and overhead options a plenty, plus everything else I mentioned. Also Jax and Kung Jin have advancing strings that are huge too, Jax f212 goes FULL SCREEN and connects, Jin's b214 advances a bunch too, not to mention his low and overhead starters b1 and f2 have huge range too, plus a top tier njp. You can't just say "oh well he has slow normals so he sucks" like most people on TYM do. Give Jax a 8 fr s1 instead of 6 and 8 fr d1 instead of 7? Fine, he'd still be super good, because he still has his advancing strings, his safe armour, his zoning and MIXUPS. I don't know why you want these strings to startup faster, I someone blocks your starter and then you go into hat you'll still be minus and have to respect whatever poke/string they do, just the same as now. If you want them for whiff punishing then I dunno cause Lao already has his f2 and b2 which are great for this. That's why walkspeed and backdash are more important, so he can step up his neutral and spacing game and use these tools. Like it doesn't matter if these strings startup faster because if it's your turn as Lao, your opponent will block anyway, and they don't have to be scared because you have very little mixups. You have to be smart to play Lao now, it's not just mindless button pressing gapless strings in block pressure. You have to space, you have to whiff punish, you have to bait wakeup, you have to stagger and more importantly use throw. I know it's a longer window to break but throw is still a great tool for Lao.

what lao needs is a 50/50 mix up that ends to overhead or low hat. like in mk9. everything else is just fine.

Yeah but I don't want Lao to just be another "mindless" 50/50 character in a sea of them already y'know?

 

[Tweedy]

What do you guys want in the possible KP3 patches, for our lord Kung Lao?

I personally just want faster walk speed, a 7 frame D1, and the removal of the gap in 112124, for Tempest.

For Buzzsaw i'd like those buffs along with maybe a damage buff to low hat? I don't know, Buzzsaw needs more damage to be viable. Lets be honest. I know we talk about giving up-hat more hit advantage, universal changes, but in the end Buzzsaw is not gonna win matches with his nickel and dime playstyle. You either land a B321 with meter, 44, or you lose, in most cases. You have to be right so many times in comparison to your opponent, to win. Outside of damage I think Buzzsaw is straight.

Maybe make B2 do 6% instead of 3%? Would that make Tempest too strong, along with other universal changes?

Hat Trick is my least played variation so i'm not really gonna say too much. Obviously the universal changes I've listed like faster walk speed, a faster poke, and removing the gap in 112124, would help Hat Trick, but i'm sure he's in need of more help than that.

 

[myri]

What do you guys want in the possible KP3 patches, for our lord Kung Lao?

I personally just want faster walk speed, a 7 frame D1, and the removal of the gap in 112124, for Tempest.

For Buzzsaw i'd like those buffs along with maybe a damage buff to low hat? I don't know, Buzzsaw needs more damage to be viable. Lets be honest. I know we talk about giving up-hat more hit advantage, universal changes, but in the end Buzzsaw is not gonna win matches with his nickel and dime playstyle. You either land a B321 with meter, 44, or you lose, in most cases. You have to be right so many times in comparison to your opponent, to win. Outside of damage I think Buzzsaw is straight.

Maybe make B2 do 6% instead of 3%? Would that make Tempest too strong, along with other universal changes?

Hat Trick is my least played variation so i'm not really gonna say too much. Obviously the universal changes I've listed like faster walk speed, a faster poke, and removing the gap in 112124, would help Hat Trick, but i'm sure he's in need of more help than that.

Yeah I mostly agree with this.

Universal:

Increased forward and back walk speeds
Increased speed on backdash
Down 1 startup in 7 frames
No gap in 112124 (I could take or leave this one)

Tempest:
ex hat spin on block up to +9 (Being greedy here)

Buzzsaw:
Slight overall damage increase

Hat Trick:
Fix all his hitbox issues with HCB and whatever else @Eddy Wang says is needed.

 

[Youphemism]

If Hat Trick had exactly 6 recovery frames shaved off straight hat trap I reckon he could at least be some sort of threat and he could make more than 6 moves safe -_-