General/Other - Kung Lao Kung Lao General Discussion

[Eddy Wang]

These needs to be fixed.

General gameplay fix
When characters are crouching or standing, juggle height should be the same from any character that can launch with one move.

In add to those:
Better backdash speed.
7f d1 and s1.
Better hitbox on 11212 string .
Tele3 to combo without being on the way down, either that or directional inputs to tp away from the opponent or in front of him with ex is held.

Buzzsaw:
ex hat grinder to link 44, b3 or any other normal with it hits opponents on the floor/ ex grinder to launch when it hits opponents on the floor(Pre launch build).
Up grinder and grinder to stale character in the air a bit longer to easy confirm juggles

Hat trick
Able to link 44, or anything under 16 frames, when he links f23~hcb 11212~hcb and 112124~hcb if the hat is not hitting because is either behind or not in trajectory to hit the opponent.
HCB to be -5 on block.

 

[Amplified$hotz]

Yeah I mostly agree with this.

Universal:

Increased forward and back walk speeds
Increased speed on backdash
Down 1 startup in 7 frames
No gap in 112124 (I could take or leave this one)

Tempest:
ex hat spin on block up to +9 (Being greedy here)

Buzzsaw:
Slight overall damage increase

Hat Trick:
Fix all his hitbox issues with HCB and whatever else @Eddy Wang says is needed.

agree with every thing except for movement buffs. and down 1startup.

 

[D7X]

Just a quick question for Tempest players!
I'm looking for a backup main for Reptile and found some enjoyment in Tempest.
After the 11~DB1, I have trouble connecting 44 after.
Visual/Sound cues?

 

[GOOD DRAGON]

t

Just a quick question for Tempest players!
I'm looking for a backup main for Reptile and found some enjoyment in Tempest.
After the 11~DB1, I have trouble connecting 44 after.
Visual/Sound cues?

Timing- you just have to practice the timing and input 44 early almost as soon as you see the orb hat. I think its a 1 or 2 frame link if i remember correctly.

 

[myri]

Just a quick question for Tempest players!
I'm looking for a backup main for Reptile and found some enjoyment in Tempest.
After the 11~DB1, I have trouble connecting 44 after.
Visual/Sound cues?

Practice. I solve this problem by just doing ex hat which makes it easy as fuck to connect 44 and if they block then you have plus frames but I've been meaning to get this timing down for the meterless option.

Yes it is a 2 frame link, you gotta be spot on with your 44 input.

 

[D7X]

Practice. I solve this problem by just doing ex hat which makes it easy as fuck to connect 44 and if they block then you have plus frames but I've been meaning to get this timing down for the meterless option.

Yes it is a 2 frame link, you gotta be spot on with your 44 input.

2 frame link lol.
60 fps right? Oh god.

 

[Youphemism]

It's a 3 frame link, not 2.

 

[myri]

It's a 3 frame link, not 2.

I'm sure it used to be 2, when did it change?

 

[Youphemism]

I'm sure it used to be 2, when did it change?

It didn't change, it's always been 3. People just don't know how to do frame data maths properly lol.

 

[Captain l2ed]

It's a 2 frame link. I've heard foxy and PL and k&m say it's 2 frame. I'll take their word

 

[Youphemism]

It's a 2 frame link. I've heard foxy and PL and k&m say it's 2 frame. I'll take their word

You can take their word if you like but they're mathematically (and therefore literally) wrong. If a move has 14 frames of hit advantage and you do a 14 frame move that would connect after it it's not going to be a 0 frame link is it? That doesn't make sense. DB1 has 16 frames of hit advantage and standing 4 starts up in 14 frames therefore it's a 3 frame link, not 2. The people saying 2 are just being lazy with maths

 

[D7X]

You can take their word if you like but they're mathematically (and therefore literally) wrong. If a move has 14 frames of hit advantage and you do a 14 frame move that would connect after it it's not going to be a 0 frame link is it? That doesn't make sense. DB1 has 16 frames of hit advantage and standing 4 starts up in 14 frames therefore it's a 3 frame link, not 2. The people saying 2 are just being lazy with maths

Yay! Math

 

[Captain l2ed]

You can take their word if you like but they're mathematically (and therefore literally) wrong. If a move has 14 frames of hit advantage and you do a 14 frame move that would connect after it it's not going to be a 0 frame link is it? That doesn't make sense. DB1 has 16 frames of hit advantage and standing 4 starts up in 14 frames therefore it's a 3 frame link, not 2. The people saying 2 are just being lazy with maths

So 14 +3 = 16?

 

[Youphemism]

Congrats on knowing entry level "maths" friendo. But when you have 2 of the best Lao players and ketchup and mustard in their wisdom saying it's 2? It's 2,friend and if it was 3 it doesn't make a hill of beans difference.

Oh because of course a top player has never misspoken ever in the history of fighting games. I guess Sonicfox was right that Joker was top 10 because lol sonicfox right? Great logic mate.

So 14 +3 = 16?

Of course not, what a stupid and ignorant question. What you've just shown is that you don't understand how frame data works whatsoever. Unless you want to try and explain the existence of 0 frame links...

 

[Captain l2ed]

Oh because of course a top player has never misspoken ever in the history of fighting games. I guess Sonicfox was right that Joker was top 10 because lol sonicfox right? Great logic mate.

Of course not, what a stupid and ignorant question. What you've just shown is that you don't understand how frame data works whatsoever. Unless you want to try and explain the existence of 0 frame links...

I Never said that pros were always,right. So,I appreciate you putting words into my mouth. And I guess I don't understand frame data
;-) ggs on being toxic on a toxic forum

 

[STRYKIE]

If Lao had a 16 frame move, doing that after hat spin would be a 1 frame link. By extension, standing 4 (a 14 frame move) is a 3 frame link.

Not much else to say about that.

 

[Eddy Wang]

So 14 +3 = 16?

16 frames moves on a 16 frames hit advantage is considered a 1 frame link.

16 to 16 = 1
16 to 15 = 2
16 to 14 = 3

MK frame data displays true startup, s4 has 15 execution frames, that is probably why F0xy and PL says 2 frame link.

 

[Captain l2ed]

16 frames moves on a 16 frames hit advantage is considered a 1 frame link.

16 to 16 = 1
16 to 15 = 2
16 to 14 = 3

MK frame data displays true startup, s4 has 15 execution frames, that is probably why F0xy and PL says 2 frame link.

Thank you. That's all I needed.

 

[Youphemism]

I Never said that pros were always,right. So,I appreciate you putting words into my mouth. And I guess I don't understand frame data
;-) ggs on being toxic on a toxic forum

I mean you're insinuating that Ketchup/Mustard/F0xy have always been right about that because...well actually you're not giving any logical reason for it. If you'd just admitted you were wrong in the first place we wouldn't have had to have this conversation, I really don't get what you're trying to do here. And how am I being toxic? You're the one being patronizing.

Thank you. That's all I needed.

Yet he's given the same explanation I have and you agree with him?

 

[Eddy Wang]

Thank you. That's all I needed.

Glad it could help.
Some people on TYM count frame data from true startup, others count with execution frames, is completely normal, but it creates some shitstorm sometimes because its confusing when both members are not in the same page.

For example, i counted more with startup first because i though the frame data was measured in execution frames, as result, i though there was 1 frame to let go off block, because i couldn't punish -11 moves with 11f startup normals, truth is, there is one extra frame added to it by execution, which is when you press a button to perform any attack in the game, so instead of 11f its 12f execution startup, so it never reached in time to punish the -11 move i was trying too hard to punish and though it was a design error.

Thank god @GGA Dizzy saw me complaining about it, and along with a member they explained what i was missing, still glad until now.

 

[Eddy Wang]

If people are still getting confused on how this link thing work, let me pick Ibuki to explain tsumuji loops in sf4

st.mp xx st.mk~lk tsumuji xx st.lp, st.mk~neck breaker

Frame data
lk tsumuji = +3 on hit
st.lp execution = 3 frames
st.lp true startup = 2 frames

Tsumuji loops were considered 1f link, because standing light punch was 3 frames of execution, but its true startup was 2 frames, which was used to connect on a +3 tsumuji on hit.

In order to not miss the link all the time, SF4 had an option select named plinking, slinking or blinking, by sliding any button into select on nearly the same timed frame which would make the game regist 2 of the same inputs with no interval in between the 1st and second frame.

You could use this tech to hit on frame everytime since you could either miss time it due hitting too early or too late, the plinking system did the whole job for you, so on the available frame you hit one of the two lps when plinking.

 

[RyuKazuya]

Glad it could help.
Some people on TYM count frame data from true startup, others count with execution frames, is completely normal, but it creates some shitstorm sometimes because its confusing when both members are not in the same page.

For example, i counted more with startup first because i though the frame data was measured in execution frames, as result, i though there was 1 frame to let go off block, because i couldn't punish -11 moves with 11f startup normals, truth is, there is one extra frame added to it by execution, which is when you press a button to perform any attack in the game, so instead of 11f its 12f execution startup, so it never reached in time to punish the -11 move i was trying too hard to punish and though it was a design error.

Thank god @GGA Dizzy saw me complaining about it, and along with a member they explained what i was missing, still glad until now.

i had the exact same problem at the beginning of mkx. In Tekken the last startup frame is also an active frame. I think you play tekken too right?^^

 

[Eddy Wang]

i had the exact same problem at the beginning of mkx. In Tekken the last startup frame is also an active frame. I think you play tekken too right?^^

I main Jin. Though i'm not that good at the game, i will seriously play Tekken 7 tho, trying to dominate movement for now in TTT2, his gameplan i got down for the most part.

 

[Captain l2ed]

I mean you're insinuating that Ketchup/Mustard/F0xy have always been right about that because...well actually you're not giving any logical reason for it. If you'd just admitted you were wrong in the first place we wouldn't have had to have this conversation, I really don't get what you're trying to do here. And how am I being toxic? You're the one being patronizing.

Yet he's given the same explanation I have and you agree with him?

He explained it in a none demeaning way. I heard it was a 2 frame and I went with that. I'll apologize and state that I don't study frame data and I just glance over it. You were right my man. I could never do the link anyways so what do I know.

 

[myri]

I guess it is 3 frames then, thanks for explaining it.