Poll Should MK11 Build on MKX?

[Pterodactyl]

Naginata could pogo all day into invincibility air dashes, it was awesome.

I don't remember that but I believe you.

Either way the point was variation imbalance.

 

[Eddy Wang]

I don't remember that but I believe you.

Either way the point was variation imbalance.

Kobu Rekkas were buffed which then became broken.

 

[KHTC Takgillo]

I remember people thinking it was the best until they figured out how dirty Kobu was.

I remember it being the best before it got nerfed

 

[aldazo]

My opinion - build from MK X, but with the following changes:
4. No fucking 3/4th or full screen normals.
9. Less 50-50s. No strings that go OH->Low and shit. Tone down the mix-ups. Just less guessing will be nice.
11. Tone down the freaking + frames. Nothing should be more than + 6 on block.
15. Make zoning more viable. Reasonable zoning, not fucking MK9 Kenshi or Zod.
18. More emphasis on movement. Actual movement, not run in and jump.

God bless you.

 

[huh]

The run is very interesting for combo diversity, but it really hurts the neutral, IMO. Makes the rush down too strong.

I would like to see how it would be if they only allowed run mid combos. Outside of combos, the movement would have to be based on walking and dashing. A mid term between MK9 and MKX: creative and flashy combos, and a more slow paced neutral

 

[EdenianWarrior]

I remember people thinking it was the best until they figured out how dirty Kobu was.

I thought that Kobu was the only on the survived the first patch then the Kobu Jutsu dirt was discovered.

 

[Goat-City]

The run is very interesting for combo diversity, but it really hurts the neutral, IMO. Makes the rush down too strong.

I would like to see how it would be if they only allowed run mid combos. Outside of combos, the movement would have to be based on walking and dashing. A mid term between MK9 and MKX: creative and flashy combos, and a more slow paced neutral

I don't think the run feature needs to be taken out of the neutral. It's definitely a fun, unique mechanic that could be a lot better if it were properly balanced. The problem is that there are not enough taxes on stamina. Running uses stamina as its fuel, so if there were more things that stamina was used for, or if running simply used a lot more stamina, then running would not be so silly because it would not be such a big constant threat.

There are a lot of different ways they could tax stamina more highly. They could make running cost 2-3x times the amount of stamina and/or slow down/completely remove the recharging of it over time. I had a thought that maybe instead of stamina recharging so quickly or at all, they could design it so that your stamina recharges while landing attacks and maybe while standing still too. This would keep combos from being affected because once you'd land a couple hits in a combo your stamina would have fully replenished so you could use it to finish the combo with a run cancel if you needed to.

Another idea I really like is having projectiles drain 25% stamina on hit and slow projectiles that lead to a knockdown should drain 50% stamina on hit. Someone like Jacqui or Shinnok with multi-hitting projectiles would drain 25% stamina for every single hit if they all connect. This would be an extra buff to zoning by giving zoners an extra benefit in stamina control that non-zoning characters wouldn't have. Also, non-projectile specials, or at least ones that have a lot of range or high mobility, should cost 50% stamina to use. This would limit the amount of yolo armor guessing games in the neutral and it would help facillitate more solid footsies and fundamentals, so there wouldn't always be a threat of some Scorpion scrub landing a lucky EX teleport into 30% and a re-stand on a lucky guess.

As a Boneshaper player for example, you couldn't just run in from full screen and THEN do EX scoop, you'd have to choose because you wouldn't have enough stamina to do both. To compensate this, it'd be a good idea to reduce the stamina cost of breakers to only 50% for both players and back dashes would only need to cost 25% stamina with less recovery.

My general point though is that there's nothing wrong with the run feature, it's a great idea, it just needs to be balanced properly. I think opening up stamina management as a bigger factor in gameplay could also make the game's meta a lot deeper and widen the gap between players' skill levels.

 

[fr stack]

Backdash has frames of invincibility, forward dash does not

but backdashing in itself is a bad thing you're giving them better corner positioning and the corner in this game is fucked

 

[Matix218]

but backdashing in itself is a bad thing you're giving them better corner positioning and the corner in this game is fucked

I realize that, but the invincibility frames are why backdash costs stamina while forward dash does not. Screen positioning has nothing to do with the resource cost

 

[Ze Dingo]

God bless you.

I'd give a lot for something similar to Hadoken zoning in MK X.

 

[New York Pizza]

I think they should retain all the characters from mk1 to 9 as the main roster and dlc DC characters. That'd be amazing.

 

[New York Pizza]

No more horror movie guest char dlc PLEASE.

 

[STRYKIE]

I said "pre-patching" meaning their quality right out of the gate. Spectral was pretty garbage at the start, at the very least not on par with MoS.

Just for the record, a lot of Spectral's utility was already there. The buffs just gave it hit-confirmability/stupid damage.

There was other quality of life things also (like Soul Charge getting an EX version and the B1 buff meaning Spectral can get a full meterless conversion from raw teleport), but for the most part, Spectral being thought to be useless came down to fuckbois being fuckbois.

I get that this is besides the point of what you are stressing, just wanted to clear this up.

10. Give anti air normals more priority than air normals. No air normal should bit on the way up.

Who/what decides what an "anti-air normal" is? And what algorithm would be implemented to give them more priority over air attacks?

 

[VerminatorX]

I think we need more guest characters. No one plays MK for those crappy no-names like Scorpion or Raiden.

I hope in MK11 there will be Candyman, Jigsaw, Kermit, Tabaluga and Tim the Toolman as DLC, and I hope if one of consoles will have low sales or community will fall apart on particular console, WB smartly decides to abandon support and save moniez. They did this once and look how awesome it worked for them. Keep on good work WB.

No, seriously - die in hell.

 

[Skylight1]

MK9 fanboys may not like it, but MKX is far and away a technically superior game. Sorry.

That sort of depends. If you just look at it from the "OMG Kabal is too op, MKX is ALREADY better than that POS" camp, than yeah MKX is better than MK9. But if you look at it from fun, exciting and less guessing involved with Mix-ups, certain 50/50s are not granted to certain characters (unless they are trying to take the damage) than MK9 will ALWAYS be looked at as the superior game than MKX.

I personally only like MKX for giving Mileena a new storyline, Shinnok's first game since MKA (which in 2015 was 8 years,) and the introduction of new modes like Challenge towers and Live Towers.

MK9 will always be my go to MK game (outside of MKDA).

 

[Eddy Wang]

Who/what decides what an "anti-air normal" is? And what algorithm would be implemented to give them more priority over air attacks?

If (air + attack trades w/ ground + attack)
ground + attack > air +attack ;

What the Algorithm does is check in case of hit trades grounded attacks will always win the trades, the rest can be balanced around it easily:
Jump Attack to hit someone in the ground should require a certain degree of height, which is where hitting such normals, every ground attack would at least trade.

Trilogy did this smoothly, if you want to use your jump kick to take someone out of the air you could win the trade, if he jumped, but if he read the jump and stood still, your character would pull the leg on the way down which could be trip guard punished, so people really had to aim their Jips and Jiks all the time, so it wasn't a dominant factor in the game, you could easily jab ppl out of the air, run and trip guard them, RH kick them out of the air or uppercut them

 

[crosstalk]

I'm hoping for an MK game with the darker style of MK2 and mechanics more along MK9.

 

[Invincible Salads]

This guy gets it.

I don't agree with several things on there mainly the no cancels

 

[IBreakemoffI]

Y?

They are the biggest waste of space and time. I've been against them before mkx was out. Played then this whole time still think it woulda been better without them. We could've had more characters as well bc the mkx roster has been lacking. No one would've thought any differently without them an they are just a stupid idea. Let me go change customes to have a new power in my new clothes. Sorry I've never seen it as a great idea. The characters would've been better with all the tools on them. Not change the way I play. The character should be able to do this as it is. It limits it IMO. Plus how many people actually change variations? Most go to another character. I'd rather se it scraped then trying to make it work.

 

[KeyserSoze]

That sort of depends. If you just look at it from the "OMG Kabal is too op, MKX is ALREADY better than that POS" camp, than yeah MKX is better than MK9. But if you look at it from fun, exciting and less guessing involved with Mix-ups, certain 50/50s are not granted to certain characters (unless they are trying to take the damage) than MK9 will ALWAYS be looked at as the superior game than MKX.

I personally only like MKX for giving Mileena a new storyline, Shinnok's first game since MKA (which in 2015 was 8 years,) and the introduction of new modes like Challenge towers and Live Towers.

MK9 will always be my go to MK game (outside of MKDA).

I have no problem with anyone feeling that MK9 is more fun than MKX, or even just a better game. That is an opinion and we all have them. But, I'm just tired of reading revisionist history about how flawless MK9's game mechanics are. I'm just not sure how anyone could objectively state that MK9 is a better-balanced or more competitively viable game than MKX, regardless of how anyone might actually feel about which game is more fun/entertaining.

 

[KeyserSoze]

The only true grappler who actually depends on his grabs is Commando Kano, all the other 'grapplers' just have it tacked on as an extra mixup tool or ender for damage.

I would argue that Relentless and Unstoppable Jason definitely depend on their grabs, but I guess it's really semantics in that in comes down to how you are using the word "depends."

 

[KHTC Takgillo]

They are the biggest waste of space and time. I've been against them before mkx was out. Played then this whole time still think it woulda been better without them. We could've had more characters as well bc the mkx roster has been lacking. No one would've thought any differently without them an they are just a stupid idea. Let me go change customes to have a new power in my new clothes. Sorry I've never seen it as a great idea. The characters would've been better with all the tools on them. Not change the way I play. The character should be able to do this as it is. It limits it IMO. Plus how many people actually change variations? Most go to another character. I'd rather se it scraped then trying to make it work.

It actually depends on who u use with Takeda for example you can deal with MU by switching variations and people do

 

[Eddy Wang]

I don't agree with several things on there mainly the no cancels

I don't agree too, but still he made some good point that would defo made the game better.

 

[Eddy Wang]

I have no problem with anyone feeling that MK9 is more fun than MKX, or even just a better game. That is an opinion and we all have them. But, I'm just tired of reading revisionist history about how flawless MK9's game mechanics are. I'm just not sure how anyone could objectively state that MK9 is a better-balanced or more competitively viable game than MKX, regardless of how anyone might actually feel about which game is more fun/entertaining.

Because although there was Kabal, Cyrax and Kenshi in MK9, it wasn't 50% char and 50% player, the only "GG bro" type of game was facing a high level Kabal that actually knew what they were doing, and there was only one in the world.
Cyrax had 100% damage combos, but he was still beatable by a mile.

No one had nearly unbeatable jumps ins because "GG Bro"
No one had fullscreen advancing string that couldn't be avoided by spacing, and auto anti-airs when you want to NJP it since spacing it its useless, to abuse like "GG bro, shades of F23man"

Despite its flaws the game rewarded you for spacing correctly, even punishing was consistent and no minus move was plus when blocked before become minus, d1 was only to reverse pressure and was minus enough to not let you mash when you're minus.

in MKX there are just many cases where the skill level is added along the bullshit the game offers, it doesn't matter how good you are, the tools are just way to overpowered, far more than the defense systems gives you too little to nothing to deal with it, and it doesn't matter if whiff or blocked, the reward is more on their favor.

That is why people will always place MK9 on the golden palace, you would feel outplayed when you lose in MK9 different that just feel cheated (besides Kuh Bawl, Cyrax and Kenshi)

 

[KeyserSoze]

Because although there was Kabal, Cyrax and Kenshi in MK9, it wasn't 50% char and 50% player, the only "GG bro" type of game was facing a high level Kabal that actually knew what they were doing, and there was only one in the world.
Cyrax had 100% damage combos, but he was still beatable by a mile.

No one had nearly unbeatable jumps ins because "GG Bro"
No one had fullscreen advancing string that couldn't be avoided by spacing, and auto anti-airs when you want to NJP it since spacing it its useless, to abuse like "GG bro, shades of F23man"

Despite its flaws the game rewarded you for spacing correctly, even punishing was consistent and no minus move was plus when blocked before become minus, d1 was only to reverse pressure and was minus enough to not let you mash when you're minus.

in MKX there are just many cases where the skill level is added along the bullshit the game offers, it doesn't matter how good you are, the tools are just way to overpowered, far more than the defense systems gives you too little to nothing to deal with it, and it doesn't matter if whiff or blocked, the reward is more on their favor.

That is why people will always place MK9 on the golden palace, you would feel outplayed when you lose in MK9 different that just feel cheated (besides Kuh Bawl, Cyrax and Kenshi)

Yeah, I just don't see it. So many characters in that game were over-matched. At least the vast majority of MKX characters (I would argue almost all of them) have a viable variation. And writing "although there was Kabal, Cyrax, and Kenshi . . . " is like writing "although I have terminal brain cancer . . . "