Question What is the general consensus on the patches? And what should be added/removed?

[NSR]

I already have man, I took some of your ideas for Kano.
as for the EX spindash, I did that because of REO's suggestions. I've seen videos him playing Kabal, and after seeing his nerf file, I've decied to follow it, at least partially. The number one complaint about Kabal is his ridiculously overpowered NDC. REO suggested to delay the cancel, but I've found no way of making that happen. The one twkvar associated with it controls the animation that would happen if the cancel were to play in a very specific way (doing the cancel but not doing anything afterwards, which leads to a special animation where Kabal just stops and moves both of his hands around for a bit). For the moment, I've changed the input to a non existent one so as to prevent the NDC from occurring. Essentially, the NDC no longer exists.

 

[TwiztidOne]

I already have man, I took some of your ideas for Kano.
as for the EX spindash, I did that because of REO's suggestions. I've seen videos him playing Kabal, and after seeing his nerf file, I've decied to follow it, at least partially. The number one complaint about Kabal is his ridiculously overpowered NDC. REO suggested to delay the cancel, but I've found no way of making that happen. The one twkvar associated with it controls the animation that would happen if the cancel were to play in a very specific way (doing the cancel but not doing anything afterwards, which leads to a special animation where Kabal just stops and moves both of his hands around for a bit). For the moment, I've changed the input to a non existent one so as to prevent the NDC from occurring. Essentially, the NDC no longer exists.

if you're going to completely remove NDC's you should at least keep the armor on startup for nomad dash because it can no longer be exploited like it could before(i.e. flash parry)

 

[NSR]

definitely thought of that, but thing is, the NDC cancelling being gone is subject to change. this is still a WIP guys. remember that the 1st demo isn't even out. wait until it's out guys, then we can see how we move about with Kabal. His other tools are still there intact, keep that in mind.

 

[Eddy Wang]

definitely thought of that, but thing is, the NDC cancelling being gone is subject to change. this is still a WIP guys. remember that the 1st demo isn't even out. wait until it's out guys, then we can see how we move about with Kabal. His other tools are still there intact, keep that in mind.

Wish you the best, if you manage to removed NDC from ex only and keep the NDC would also make a great impact.

 

[NSR]

thanks. I'll keep that in mind (maybe one day, I'll find a way to do that)
anyways, I've started work on Sub-Zero and I'm also adding the last touches to Kano.
In regards to Cyber Sub-Zero, I haven't seen much info. outside of making the non EX Iceball startup faster and making the ice bombs always freeze, regardless of where the bomb explosion hits the opponent (in other words, it no longer has to hit dead center to freeze them)
Any suggestions? Should the divekick be modified? I've heard once it was a "poor man's version of Lao's dive kick".

 

[PapaRegadetho]

It's -15. Git the f*** gud lmao.

I wouldn'd know, since I played MK9 mainly online.

 

[Scott The Scot]

I wouldn'd know, since I played MK9 mainly online.

Aww don't be calm and reasonable then I just look like a dick lol.

Anyway yeah just punish it instantly there's very little block stun.

 

[NSR]

well, leaving that aside, I've been tweaking Kano again, I've got his Knife Throw speed down, and I've slightly tweaked his F3, 3 damage (originally, first hit did 2% dmg, second hit did 7%, for a total of 9% dmg.) : first hit does 3%, 2nd hit 8%, for a total of 11% dmg.
I'm thinking about adding one last buff: I was able to speed up B2, but it would be nice to able to do your own combo after that(essentially, this would give Kano another popup hit, where he can then more freely do his own stuff, without having to resort to either following it up with a Ball, Up Ball or a Knife throw)
What do you think about this buff? Should I add it?
As for Sub-Zero: Ok, NRS, what the fuck were you thinking? They took his tweakvars, and smashed the krap out of them with a hammer: What I mean by this is that the structure of the tweakvars(except for the beginning 50 bytes or so) is completely different from vanilla SZ (hell, I even compared vanilla MK1 SZ, which is the same as vanilla SZ, and I'm getting the feeling the other costumes' tweakvars structures were also altered to match this new structure)
How come vanilla and KE Kano and Kabal were the same in terms of structure yet Sub gets the short end of the stick?
Thankfully, each individual tweakvar can be examined without troubles, but still. Thing is, a lot of people want Sub to have his Ground Freeze reset back. Well, thanks to this, it's gonna be a pain in the ass to figure out exactly what they did to remove it.

 

[NSR]

ok, so these are the changes so far for Sub-Zero:
The startframe data of his D4 attack now should match other characters.
F4 is faster, and recovery frames (on hit, whiff and block) on 1+2 have been reduced, thus allowing new combos to be made.
Standing 4 is slightly faster.
Standing/F 2 now is a Mid attack.
Slide's hitbox was adjusted: Occasionally, SZ would whiff from full screen (has happened to me a few times while testing Costume 1), now this should no longer occur.
Slide's (non EX version only) speed has been slightly increased.
Slide's recovery whiff frames have been reduced.
Ground Freeze (both versions) is much faster, it should now be a viable tool to use in a match.

 

[AZ MotherBrain]

Give sindel some damage plzzzz

 

[NSR]

Sindel is not in the first demo release, you will have to wait for that.
Regarding the SZ changes, I'm going to tweak some of them because of some bugs that showed up during testing: namely the startframe data for D4 leads there to being no hit detected, and the Slide seems to whiff when it's speed is modded, oddly enough (it's not that it doesn't get the opponent, it seemingly stops just right BEFORE hitting the opponent. really odd)
Nevermind, just found out what was causing the bug. (his endframe data is smaller than the startframe, it also has to be adjusted to match other chars)

 

[NSR]

well guys, I've found something really strange (and bad) regarding Cyrax: You remember that prepatch reset infinite? the one with the teleport? (3,3, net, teleport, 3, 3, net, teleport, and so on)
well, despite using KE Cyrax, and despite all the other KE changes applying...that infinite is there when you test it on a 1.01 patch without the mkos(changes to the character scripts)
This is extremely odd(I even doublechecked just to make sure I was using the right file) because it implies they fixed it in another way, not involving the actual character file. VERY different to KE Sub, were the ground freeze reset was fixed inside the character file (vanilla Sub still has the reset, although, as I've already bitched about it, they reorganized KE Sub's tweakvars, making it difficult to pinpoint what they actually changed).
So yeah guys, If I were you, I would strongly suggest installing this mod in KE (once it komes out) rather than the vanilla PS3 version. Unless you want to keep that infinite, then go right ahead.

 

[SHAOLIN]

Appreciate the info bro.

 

[NSR]

well, It's been a pain in the ass with Cyrax, namely because the dmg values seem to be undocumented. However, I was finally able to find the saw damage...after the walkspeed, that is. Really odd how NRS ordered some of the values: We've got characters who have (for example, Kabal) their special moves neatly organized, with their dmg, block requirements, frames, speed, etc, all in one section, then we got characters like Cyrax who got several values for one move in section,say in the middle, and then damage or other stuff at the END of the file.
Keeping in mind that several of these hashes haven't been decrypted, I only have to guess what they were thinking. Honestly, I know i'm complaining a lot, but some of the structure feels odd to me.

 

[IROC]

Will you give scorpion a better "poke" game? Like his d3 is -7 on HIT. If he had pokes like smoke, he be perfect. Ermac needs armor on his ex specials, his only armor is X-ray. If he had the same kind of armor for his ex tele-punch like scorpion, he would be perfect. Btw I'm glad somebody is doing this with mk9, thank you!!

 

[NSR]

hey man, you are absolutely welcome.
I'd rather clear this up: armor cannot be added to moves that originally did not have them (well,if we could figure out some of the stuff as to how code is added, but let's say that's not happening for now.) However, existing armor can be modified to either last longer, or remove it altogether.
however Scorpion's D3 can be improved, rest assured. I'm still holding off on Scorpion, however, I have to finish up the 1st demo release.
Regarding Cyrax, I was finally able to discover the non EX bomb damage values. Still on the lookout for the EX bomb damage values.

 

[Rude]

Quan Chi buffs:

U3 with faster start up.
U3 hit-confirmable to Trance.
21, U3 linkable to Trance.
6 frame d1.

I'm sure you could get rid of The Rune Trap with these buffs.

 

[NSR]

gonna keep that in mind for Woolay.
anyways, back to Sub: I'm sorry if I've been misleading you (and you have the right to be pissed off at me) but the slide's recovery frames haven't improved that much: it's almost as if the game wants the entire animation to play, despite there being an earlier point where Sub should be able to move around freely. Same thing happens with 1+2 after pressing F4, except in that case, there's a more noticable difference, however I wanted to increase the speed of 1+2, but, it seems there's no speed values for it, or, most likely, they are undocumented.
So, I'm gonna see what I can do.
As for Cyrax, his regular dmg bomb value is at the end...yet the ex bomb damage values are nowhere to be found, and it doesn't seem it shares the same hex values as the regular (despite both doing the same amount of damage). Sigh...
Really want to finish up both of them, that way I can focus on other characters.

 

[nathancorsini]

#BuffsForJade

 

[SaSSolino]

woho! Kabal nerfs!

 

[NSR]

ok guys, I'm happy to say I finally figured out what was causing some of the slide problems: the endframe data. It seems that by modifying the speed values, it also makes the endframe data shorter once the slide is executed (I believe, it seems to be some sort of bug because it doesn't affect the ex slide)
so, the solution was to extend the endframe data, and now, not only is the slide quicker, but also it's recovery upon whiffing is faster than before.
so, for the time being, i'm done with Sub, thank God!
Anyways, back to Cyrax. Well, I've still yet to find the ex bomb damage values, but, I decided, out of curiosity, to test MK3 Cyrax (taken from Skarlet DLC, with none of the patch changes) and see if the prepatch infinite still worked. Guess what? IT DIDN'T.
So I'm guessing because the other Cyrax (KE) I'm using on a modified 1.01 overrides a Cyrax already present in the disc/backup, it could be taking some of it's data, thus causing the prepatch infinite to return? or they just fixed it in a different way with MK3 Cyrax. (haven't checked Human yet)
Yeah, Cyrax's script is weird, honestly. First the random location of the damage values, now this. I'll probably switch testing and development over to KE once I'm done with Cyrax.

 

[THTB]

Jesus, this shit just sounds messy lmao.

Good stuff, @NSR.

 

[NSR]

i'll probably include the tweakvars with my findings on it on unhashed variables. should be useful to at least any PS3 MK9 modder.
dunno about PC though.
IDK @SHAOLIN
They probably have a valid reason, and not all of the vars are disorganized: attacks are properly organized, for example, and stay consistent throughout all of the characters i've checked (including bosses)
the problem comes with the special moves: how come regular bomb damage is located at the END of the variables, whereas the reverse kick has it's damage values (even the ex damage values) located next to the speed, collision size, framedata, etc.?
my only guess is that it's labeled as a reaction and thus the hash (still unencrypted) would make sense why it would go last, but still. It's an odd structure.
But then again, Kano was programmed(or should I say, WASN'T programmed) to make his knives disappear if he tried to have more than one of the same type on screen. Since his animation is so slow, you'll never see it in normal gameplay (unless Turbo affects him in Test your Luck, I guess) unless you modify it. I wonder, why not just program a limit? if Kano throws regular knife = disable regular knife input until it goes offscreen/hits opponent, and same thing goes for the EX knife.

 

[Eddy Wang]

I think sometime back in 2013 paulo said the script base of MK9 was hella messy, that is why they didn't patched anymore as well since there was a risk of altering something else (ala cyrax bugs keeping popping up one after another), they have rebuilt it from ground up in Injustice pre-programmed and ready for fixes without all the mess it was in the MK9.

I'm enjoying your update log, just keep them coming, wish we could have a way to test out the balance before full release, its something i've always wanted to learn as well, since my dream is to rebalance MK Trilogy from PC version, but i don't have an entry point since its all in DAT files.

 

[Lycanthos]

Can Nightwolf finally have a low starter with F3? Always found it stupid that his F3 looks like a low, but is a mid.