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Question What is the general consensus on the patches? And what should be added/removed?

NSR

NSR

Also known as Futuretime23
Guys, I got some bad news with Sonya (haven't completely tested, but based on my assumptions): Remember that her framedata for her Kartwheel is exactly the same for both versions? This is because there only exists data that is shared across BOTH versions. What does this mean? If you nerf the EX, you also nerf the non EX and vice versa.
And I can't get around this, Sonya was specifically coded this way it seems.
 
THTB

THTB

Arez | Booya | Riu48 - Rest Easy, Friends
NSR said:
Guys, I got some bad news with Sonya (haven't completely tested, but based on my assumptions): Remember that her framedata for her Kartwheel is exactly the same for both versions? This is because there only exists data that is shared across BOTH versions. What does this mean? If you nerf the EX, you also nerf the non EX and vice versa.
And I can't get around this, Sonya was specifically coded this way it seems.
Click to expand...
Dammit that's horseshit! Ugh...such a mess!
 
NSR

NSR

Also known as Futuretime23
Nightwolf also has a speed value that controls BOTH non EX and EX arrow shot.
huh.
in any case, here's the complete list of changes so far:
Kenshi
Armor removed for EX Telecharge and EX Teleflurry
Armor duration reduced for EX Rising Karma
Recovery frames increased for EX Telecharge and EX Rising Karma on block. (particularly for Rising Karma)
Startup speed slightly decreased for Telecharge (both versions)

Noob Saibot
B1 is faster
F3 is faster
B121's recovery frames on hit were reduced, thus allowing new combos to be made
B1214's recovery frames on hit were reduced.
Recovery frames (on hit, whiff and block) on EX shadow charge have been reduced.
Recovery frames (on hit, whiff and block) on non EX and EX shadow slide have been reduced.

Kabal
Nomad Dash Cancelling removed.
EX Dash Armor removed.

Sub-Zero
The startframe/endframe data of his D4 attack should match other characters (This was ported over from Kabal's data)
F4 is faster, and recovery frames (on hit, whiff and block) on 1+2 have been reduced, thus allowing new combos to be made in the corner.
Standing 4 is slightly faster.
Standing/F2 now is a Mid attack.
Slide's hitbox was adjusted: Occasionally, SZ would whiff from full screen (has happened to me a few times while testing Costume 1), now this should no longer occur.
Slide's (non EX version) speed has been slightly increased. Endframe data was adjusted to prevent a bug where Sub-Zero's slide didn't register.
As a result, Slide's recovery whiff frames have also been reduced.
Ice Puddle (both versions) is much faster, it should now be a viable tool to use in a match.

Cyrax
Regular bombs now do 4% damage, instead of 8%.

Kano
Slightly increased the duration of EX Ball's(Horizontal) armor.
B2 is faster.
B2's recovery frames on hit, whiff and block have been reduced. This gives Kano a new popup hit, and allows new combos to be made.
F3 is faster.
F3,3 has been given a slight damage buff: originally,first hit did 2% dmg, second hit did 7%, for a total of 9% dmg. Now, first hit does 3%, 2nd hit 8%, for a total of 11% dmg.
Knife Throw and it's EX counterpart, the Knife Toss have faster startup.
112 (specifically the last hit, 2) now hits Mid. Hitbox has been slightly adjusted so it does not whiff on crouching opponents.
Choke and it's EX counterpart now hit Mid. Hitbox has been altered so it does not whiff on crouching opponents.

Sonya
EX and non EX Kartwheel damage reduced by 25% approx. (Kartwheel does 6% damage, nearly 7% of damage, while EX does approx. 9% damage now, registered as 8%)
Block damage for both has also been adjusted.
EX and non EX Kartwheel recovery frames on block have been increased. Endframe data has been adjusted.
Kartwheel (both) is slightly slower.
Dive Kick's recovery frames on block have been increased, and Sonya comes out of the move a little slower (seems to be slower for the EX version of the move).

Nightwolf
F3 now hits Low.
B1 is faster.
F312's recovery frames on hit reduced, thus allowing new combos to be made.
EX Shoulder Tackle armor duration increased, it should now last through the entire animation.
Walkspeed (both forwards and backwards) has been slightly increased.
EX Shoulder Tackle's recovery frames on block have been slightly increased.
EX and non EX Arrow Shot startup is faster. (same speed increase for both)
 
just_2swift

just_2swift

MK1 is the best MK period.
NSR said:
Nightwolf also has a speed value that controls BOTH non EX and EX arrow shot.
huh.
in any case, here's the complete list of changes so far:
Kenshi
Armor removed for EX Telecharge and EX Teleflurry
Armor duration reduced for EX Rising Karma
Recovery frames increased for EX Telecharge and EX Rising Karma on block. (particularly for Rising Karma)
Startup speed slightly decreased for Telecharge (both versions)

Noob Saibot
B1 is faster
F3 is faster
B121's recovery frames on hit were reduced, thus allowing new combos to be made
B1214's recovery frames on hit were reduced.
Recovery frames (on hit, whiff and block) on EX shadow charge have been reduced.
Recovery frames (on hit, whiff and block) on non EX and EX shadow slide have been reduced.

Kabal
Nomad Dash Cancelling removed.
EX Dash Armor removed.

Sub-Zero
The startframe/endframe data of his D4 attack should match other characters (This was ported over from Kabal's data)
F4 is faster, and recovery frames (on hit, whiff and block) on 1+2 have been reduced, thus allowing new combos to be made in the corner.
Standing 4 is slightly faster.
Standing/F2 now is a Mid attack.
Slide's hitbox was adjusted: Occasionally, SZ would whiff from full screen (has happened to me a few times while testing Costume 1), now this should no longer occur.
Slide's (non EX version) speed has been slightly increased. Endframe data was adjusted to prevent a bug where Sub-Zero's slide didn't register.
As a result, Slide's recovery whiff frames have also been reduced.
Ice Puddle (both versions) is much faster, it should now be a viable tool to use in a match.

Cyrax
Regular bombs now do 4% damage, instead of 8%.

Kano
Slightly increased the duration of EX Ball's(Horizontal) armor.
B2 is faster.
B2's recovery frames on hit, whiff and block have been reduced. This gives Kano a new popup hit, and allows new combos to be made.
F3 is faster.
F3,3 has been given a slight damage buff: originally,first hit did 2% dmg, second hit did 7%, for a total of 9% dmg. Now, first hit does 3%, 2nd hit 8%, for a total of 11% dmg.
Knife Throw and it's EX counterpart, the Knife Toss have faster startup.
112 (specifically the last hit, 2) now hits Mid. Hitbox has been slightly adjusted so it does not whiff on crouching opponents.
Choke and it's EX counterpart now hit Mid. Hitbox has been altered so it does not whiff on crouching opponents.

Sonya
EX and non EX Kartwheel damage reduced by 25% approx. (Kartwheel does 6% damage, nearly 7% of damage, while EX does approx. 9% damage now, registered as 8%)
Block damage for both has also been adjusted.
EX and non EX Kartwheel recovery frames on block have been increased. Endframe data has been adjusted.
Kartwheel (both) is slightly slower.
Dive Kick's recovery frames on block have been increased, and Sonya comes out of the move a little slower (seems to be slower for the EX version of the move).

Nightwolf
F3 now hits Low.
B1 is faster.
F312's recovery frames on hit reduced, thus allowing new combos to be made.
EX Shoulder Tackle armor duration increased, it should now last through the entire animation.
Walkspeed (both forwards and backwards) has been slightly increased.
EX Shoulder Tackle's recovery frames on block have been slightly increased.
EX and non EX Arrow Shot startup is faster. (same speed increase for both)
Click to expand...
Very good stuff
 
NSR

NSR

Also known as Futuretime23
@THTB
look, I've read your list of changes for Freddy, but I'm pretty much boned with changing the pushback (definitely not controlled by tweakvars) and it's possible the EX Hell Spike shares data with the non EX version (I have to complete my testing to be sure, but there's only breakframe data for clawspikes, but nothing for clawspikes_ex outside values related to reaction). The only noticeable change is that at the end of Freddy's vars, there's a couple of EX Hell Spike only variables, mostly related to how fast the opponent recovers from the move, probably the only other way to nerf it without affecting the regular version. Otherwise, I end up having to nerf the recovery frames on block of both versions, if it were the case of both versions sharing data.
 
ForeverKing

ForeverKing

Patreon.com/MK_ForeverKing
NSR said:
Given that MK9 can be modded, what would be necessary to make MK9 more balanced?(like the MK2/UMK3 Tournament Edition hacks)
IMO, Kabal's NDC, hell, himself, breaks the game.
Kano would pretty much need a big buff to be worth playing. He's pretty darn slow.
But I'm not a pro player, that's why I'm asking you guys, I would like to mod the game to make it more balanced. (for the record, I know how to mod it,the question is what to fix,as stated earlier)
Click to expand...
I actually have alot of fair nerfs and buffs in mind, I'll need to get back to you on this for sure
 
ienjoywinning

ienjoywinning

Warrior
NSR said:
Nightwolf also has a speed value that controls BOTH non EX and EX arrow shot.
huh.
in any case, here's the complete list of changes so far:
Kenshi
Armor removed for EX Telecharge and EX Teleflurry
Armor duration reduced for EX Rising Karma
Recovery frames increased for EX Telecharge and EX Rising Karma on block. (particularly for Rising Karma)
Startup speed slightly decreased for Telecharge (both versions)

Noob Saibot
B1 is faster
F3 is faster
B121's recovery frames on hit were reduced, thus allowing new combos to be made
B1214's recovery frames on hit were reduced.
Recovery frames (on hit, whiff and block) on EX shadow charge have been reduced.
Recovery frames (on hit, whiff and block) on non EX and EX shadow slide have been reduced.

Kabal
Nomad Dash Cancelling removed.
EX Dash Armor removed.

Sub-Zero
The startframe/endframe data of his D4 attack should match other characters (This was ported over from Kabal's data)
F4 is faster, and recovery frames (on hit, whiff and block) on 1+2 have been reduced, thus allowing new combos to be made in the corner.
Standing 4 is slightly faster.
Standing/F2 now is a Mid attack.
Slide's hitbox was adjusted: Occasionally, SZ would whiff from full screen (has happened to me a few times while testing Costume 1), now this should no longer occur.
Slide's (non EX version) speed has been slightly increased. Endframe data was adjusted to prevent a bug where Sub-Zero's slide didn't register.
As a result, Slide's recovery whiff frames have also been reduced.
Ice Puddle (both versions) is much faster, it should now be a viable tool to use in a match.

Cyrax
Regular bombs now do 4% damage, instead of 8%.

Kano
Slightly increased the duration of EX Ball's(Horizontal) armor.
B2 is faster.
B2's recovery frames on hit, whiff and block have been reduced. This gives Kano a new popup hit, and allows new combos to be made.
F3 is faster.
F3,3 has been given a slight damage buff: originally,first hit did 2% dmg, second hit did 7%, for a total of 9% dmg. Now, first hit does 3%, 2nd hit 8%, for a total of 11% dmg.
Knife Throw and it's EX counterpart, the Knife Toss have faster startup.
112 (specifically the last hit, 2) now hits Mid. Hitbox has been slightly adjusted so it does not whiff on crouching opponents.
Choke and it's EX counterpart now hit Mid. Hitbox has been altered so it does not whiff on crouching opponents.

Sonya
EX and non EX Kartwheel damage reduced by 25% approx. (Kartwheel does 6% damage, nearly 7% of damage, while EX does approx. 9% damage now, registered as 8%)
Block damage for both has also been adjusted.
EX and non EX Kartwheel recovery frames on block have been increased. Endframe data has been adjusted.
Kartwheel (both) is slightly slower.
Dive Kick's recovery frames on block have been increased, and Sonya comes out of the move a little slower (seems to be slower for the EX version of the move).

Nightwolf
F3 now hits Low.
B1 is faster.
F312's recovery frames on hit reduced, thus allowing new combos to be made.
EX Shoulder Tackle armor duration increased, it should now last through the entire animation.
Walkspeed (both forwards and backwards) has been slightly increased.
EX Shoulder Tackle's recovery frames on block have been slightly increased.
EX and non EX Arrow Shot startup is faster. (same speed increase for both)
Click to expand...
Wow no ndc or armor on ex dash , these will be available in separate files right ?
 
NSR

NSR

Also known as Futuretime23
guys, I've ran into some problems with my monitor(it no longer works, it just turns on and then goes dark in 5 seconds) for the desktop computer. I'm using my laptop now, seems like you are gonna have to wait until next week for the mod release. Sorry.
Nevermind, seems like it's working properly now, after trying to disassemble it and reassembling it. however, there's now a strange white vertical line at the left side of the screen. It doesn't bode well for me. I'm afraid this thing's gonna break down soon.
 
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NSR

NSR

Also known as Futuretime23
Ok, guys, bought a new monitor, it's working properly, so, back to work.
I got to test Krueger: his Hell Spike recovery for both moves is, sadly, shared between both versions. even the speed value for his animation if it's blocked (haven't tested hit or miss, but I bet it'a also shared) is also shared for both. It's been nerfed so Krueger comes out of the move slower should the move be blocked.
Also, his low claw (that little claw that moves along the ground)'s damage has been reduced: non EX does 6% now, while EX does 10%. Block damage has been left intact. Krueger is thankfully, despite the above, another character who's been rather easy to do.
@GGA Jeremiah
I would really love hearing what changes should be implemented to Sheeva. I want to include her in the first demo release.
 
GGA Jeremiah

GGA Jeremiah

Sheeva
NSR said:
@GGA Jeremiah
I would really love hearing what changes should be implemented to Sheeva. I want to include her in the first demo release.
Click to expand...
Ok. One more question before I work on it. Are all the top tier remaining the same or are they getting nerfed. If they are remaining the same she needs more buffs. If they are getting nerfed I would try and make her on their level.

Also what can you adjust? Can you adjust hitboxes, can you make moves launch that didn't launch before, can you adjust frame data?
 
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NSR

NSR

Also known as Futuretime23
framedata can be adjusted (but sometimes it's bizarre, some moves require the animation to be played out up to a certain point, no matter what, like if it was hardcoded or something) hitboxes can be altered, however making moves launch or not (or what reaction they give off) is not handled by the tweakvars, it seems to be handled by data1 or data2, which is the coding for the moves, problem is, generally, all my tests end in crashes or no changes, so I definitely would scratch that off the list for the moment.
Adding armor to a move that previously had none is impossible but modifying armor to a move that had it, in order to either decrease or increase it is possible. same thing with going with an actual programmed cancel for a move (although recovery frames can be altered of course, as well as the speed of the move) or programming new moves or characteristics for a move.
Yes, the top tiers have been nerfed, I left a list of the patch changes above. Cyrax is incomplete, however.
All the characters are getting modified, I'm going after the high to top tier list now or characters who have very cheap BS (like Jax's insane corner damage, for instance, that EX Ground Pound reset is gonna go, but Jax is gonna receive some buffs to counteract that)
 
NSR

NSR

Also known as Futuretime23
Kung Lao's only getting one change(for now at least)
Armor duration cut by half on EX Teleport, as a result, this also removes the bug where Lao could get extra armor by delaying EX Teleport's 1 attack/throw.
Guys, I've been thinking about modding Cyber Sub-Zero as well: any changes that you can recommend? (I've already received some requests before, but more detailed data is what I'm after)
There's also no data on Rain and Baraka, what changes should be done to them?
 
NSR

NSR

Also known as Futuretime23
ok guys, I've finished my work on Jax:
Jax
EX Ground Pound recovery frames on hit increased, this effectively removes Jax's resets in the corner and greatly nerfs his corner damage.
EX Ground Pound now does 14% damage.
F41's hitbox has been increased to prevent whiffing on specific crouching opponents.
F413's last hit is slower.
2F2B1's recovery frames on hit have been reduced, thus allowing new combos to be made.
2F2B1's last hit had it's speed very slightly increased to further help this.
 
NSR

NSR

Also known as Futuretime23
well, I've been talking to Tim, and he's made it very clear that no download link nor any link relating to the download link to this mod (be it a video, or a forum) will be posted. Not even through PMs.
However, update logs can still be posted and I can still let you guys know when an update is out (no release has been done yet, but it will be done soon enough)
Essentially, discussion of the mod is allowed, so long as nothing regarding the actual download is discussed.
I know it's a bummer, but it's legality is dubious and Tim simply doesn't want the site to theoretically come down under fire by NRS/WB.
I can perfectly understand that, and I'm hoping you guys will as well.
 
NSR

NSR

Also known as Futuretime23
hmm, gonna need a detailed list on CSZ changes
Also one for Baraka
Anyways, I decided to work on Jade today, and got these changes in:
Jade
U3 now hits Mid.
Boomerang startup (for both EX and non EX versions, and for all directions) is slightly faster.
EX Shadow Flash no longer takes additional damage.
342's last hit's recovery frames have been reduced, thus allowing for new combos to be made.
To further complement the above change (also due to MK9's coding) 342's last hit is much faster.
122's last hit does 8% damage, thus increasing the overall combo damage to 13%
B1F1's last hit does 10% damage now, thus increasing the overall combo damage to 18%
23F2's last hit does 10% damage now, thus increasing the overall combo damage to 16%
F212's last hit does 10% damage now, thus increasing the overall combo damage to 16%
B32's last hit does 10% damage now, thus increasing the overall combo damage to 14%
4F3's last does 12% damage now, thus increasing the overall combo damage to 16%
 
NSR

NSR

Also known as Futuretime23
guys,given how fast progress has been going, would you rather wait until I get all 32 characters done or do you prefer a release ASAP without all the characters?
 
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