General/Other - Ferra/Torr F/T is bottom 5! Lets do this.

[Qwark28]

im just posting to line up 4 avatars

 

[MK Led]

So I take it the council is in full chibi avatar downplay mode now.

I am pleased.

 

[Doombawkz]

im just posting to line up 4 avatars

You got next-paged.
c-c-c-c-combo breaker

 

[Doombawkz]

So I take it the council is in full chibi avatar downplay mode now.

I am pleased.

Join us. I could get you one too if you'd like to follow us in protest.

 

[Gesture Required Ahead]

Damn. Too late.

 

[MK Led]

Join us. I could get you one too if you'd like to follow us in protest.

Sounds good I'm always up for some good old downplaying, especially if the character actually needs it a la ruthless. I always meant to get around to asking to join the council, but forgot one day and that thread kinda got buried.

 

[MadeFromMetal]

I want to play Ruthless so much, just for the Red alt. It's like Erron Black with his hat...the coolest costumes are the worst variations.

 

[Shade667]

They need to make PnG have its own meter like banes venom, so I can keep track of it cuz I always use the red alt for master and servant and cant see the blood well.

 

[Wetdoba]

So noxious Reptile does 40% meterless now... wasn't Vicious nerfed for doing that much?

Looking through the roster now after those last two rounds of low tier buffs I think we might be bottom 3...

 

[Shade667]

yeah but reptile is hard... much more deserving of 40% meterless than characters like ermac.

I dont think were that low. I still think were right in the middle.

 

[Shark Tank]

Grr's gotta stop winning locals. Somebody should get into contact with him and tell him to start diving

 

[Forr]

yeah but reptile is hard... much more deserving of 40% meterless than characters like ermac.

I dont think were that low. I still think were right in the middle.

Who are the characters you have worse than us? Not saying your wrong, just curious.

 

[Shade667]

Grr's probably the only reason I know the Kung lao matchup so well because of him and glitch always being in the finals.

 

[Shade667]

Who are the characters you have worse than us? Not saying your wrong, just curious.

I dunno, I dont have a tier list down, I just kinda say where i think people are.
If I think a character doesnt have anything going for them, but still has reasonable options theyre mid tier. by default.
But Im not a good player, so having an overhead instantly puts FT above characters like kitana and jason. And kenshi.
I dont know if I should count characters like kano. I think FT wins the matchup, but that doesnt mean Ft should be rated as a better character, right?

 

[Raegn21]

(apologies for wall of text)

one big problem i find with Ferra/Torr (Ruthless and Vicious, i have 0 experience with Lackey) is that their ex specials do not really warrant any use as far as combos go. this just leaves the meter to sit there for breakers and xray combos which im sure we can agree that being able to get damage at 1 bar rather than waiting for all 3 to be full would help tremendously.

they seem to have the ability to add and remove moves (proven with Quan Chi when they removed a combo string in his Warlock variant and replaced it with a new special move) so i dont see why they couldnt add some sort of move to help F/T out in this respect. not really sure what they could add in though...

Boss Toss should be offered an ex version. one that allows Torr to move freely during Ferras animation instead of waiting for her to let go of the opponent. this would allow us to close the gap and once she lets go continue attacking them before they recover. of course, i should hope that after her dismount the kick she hits the opponent with staggers them instead of knocking them down.

and while F/T does have really good moves for pressure, Torrs lack in speed all but negates their usefulness. Kotal is pretty slow himself however his attacks are pretty quick and can cover his lack of movement for him as a good number of moves in his move list move him forward. perhaps a slight reduction in start up frames for some of F/T key moves such as f2 and b2. nothing ridiculous, dont need him to have Reptile Speed maybe just 2 or 3 frames and see where that takes us. as for F/T movement, i see nothing too troubling about how it is now.

lastly, F/T lacks any wakeup options since Ferra is knocked off of him whenever he is floored. this forces us to basically hope the opponent will go away, or try to block their oncoming attacks and find some sort of window of escape. a simple fix could be to revert all of Torrs moves to the Lackey variation when he is without Ferra. some of his normals change to the Lackey version so why not his specials as well? now, he wont be gaining access to the moves he doesnt have the inputs for, such as boulder roll. however his bf3 charge should be reverted to the Lackey version. this would give F/T some very welcome wakeup options instead of always having to play defense.

 

[Shade667]

(apologies for wall of text)

one big problem i find with Ferra/Torr (Ruthless and Vicious, i have 0 experience with Lackey) is that their ex specials do not really warrant any use as far as combos go. this just leaves the meter to sit there for breakers and xray combos which im sure we can agree that being able to get damage at 1 bar rather than waiting for all 3 to be full would help tremendously.

they seem to have the ability to add and remove moves (proven with Quan Chi when they removed a combo string in his Warlock variant and replaced it with a new special move) so i dont see why they couldnt add some sort of move to help F/T out in this respect. not really sure what they could add in though...

Boss Toss should be offered an ex version. one that allows Torr to move freely during Ferras animation instead of waiting for her to let go of the opponent. this would allow us to close the gap and once she lets go continue attacking them before they recover. of course, i should hope that after her dismount the kick she hits the opponent with staggers them instead of knocking them down.

and while F/T does have really good moves for pressure, Torrs lack in speed all but negates their usefulness. Kotal is pretty slow himself however his attacks are pretty quick and can cover his lack of movement for him as a good number of moves in his move list move him forward. perhaps a slight reduction in start up frames for some of F/T key moves such as f2 and b2. nothing ridiculous, dont need him to have Reptile Speed maybe just 2 or 3 frames and see where that takes us. as for F/T movement, i see nothing too troubling about how it is now.

lastly, F/T lacks any wakeup options since Ferra is knocked off of him whenever he is floored. this forces us to basically hope the opponent will go away, or try to block their oncoming attacks and find some sort of window of escape. a simple fix could be to revert all of Torrs moves to the Lackey variation when he is without Ferra. some of his normals change to the Lackey version so why not his specials as well? now, he wont be gaining access to the moves he doesnt have the inputs for, such as boulder roll. however his bf3 charge should be reverted to the Lackey version. this would give F/T some very welcome wakeup options instead of always having to play defense.

I 100% agree with having moves revert to lackey when Ferra isnt on his back. B2, B3 etc. And he could have roll since its the same input as bowl girl.
Theyve already made vicious get ruthless grab if u wakeup command grab, why not the rest?

 

[KuralKing]

lastly, F/T lacks any wakeup options since Ferra is knocked off of him whenever he is floored.

You can wake up without Ferra in Ruthless and Vicious, she will automatically jump on Torr back during the animations!

Also, i feel that the 1-1-2+4 string should be an overhead with torr swinging Ferra clockwise (not counter-clock like he does).
There's also times during --2 (Ferra Toss? or is it bowgirl?) ferra will just fall on the ground if your are hit before she reacher the opponent, i feel like that should not happen.
And give Torr sub zero -2! (pretty please with ferra on top?!)

 

[Wetdoba]

I think the 2+4 part of 112+4 should be its own normal attack to use in neutral if we want to talk hypothetical

 

[CJKRattlehead]

I would really like to see ex boss toss be a thing, it could do 18% and restand the opponent with advantage, think that would help him a lot in Vicious

 

[Shade667]

You can wake up without Ferra in Ruthless and Vicious, she will automatically jump on Torr back during the animations!

This only for charge and command grabs. Torr up and roll are fantastic wakeups that he should have access to. Its really hard to get out of the corner with ruthless and vicious sometimes.

 

[Parnak]

This only for charge and command grabs. Torr up and roll are fantastic wakeups that he should have access to. Its really hard to get out of the corner with ruthless and vicious sometimes.

Having access to Lackey specials while in Ruthless/Vivious when Ferra is unmounted, that would be unfair for Lackey and chaotic/overpowerfull for the other Variations. The first hit of Ruthless/Vicious Tuck 'n' Charge is quite fast and the move does get you out of the corner. I'd say they should buff that move a bit and be done with it. Since it is one of the only two wake-up options and the only truly viable one, I suggest they offer some more armored frames on the EX Tuck 'n' Charge, for it has very few of those and that gets us blown up on metered wake-up too often. After all, the EX version does not increase the damage, so more armored frames is a necessity imo. They should also increase the damage the enhancement does for it is ridiculously low for wasting a bar of meter. They could also give Tuck 'n' Charge +10 frames of hit adv. so that we may set-up the projectile mix-up afterwards, which is not viable at only +5 fr. that the move as of now gives on hit, if I recall correctly.

If there are to be some more Lackey moves in the other unmounted Variations, the only special move that wouldn't be broken imo is the Lackey Command Grab. It serves & complements the same purpose as Lackey D1; quick & good reach to retaliate those who go in as soon as Ferra becomes unmounted. Back Breaker would provide ample time and space for Ferra to get mounted again.! But even without it, we still get Lackey normal grab for that purpose, its just that back breaker has better hitbox. The Roll special should be buffed to recover faster on whiff in order to offer some more much needed mobility to the projectile-less Lackey Variation. In that sense it cannot be given to other Variations and the EX Torryuken is of course too powerful to be given and it doesn't make sense to give the special without its EX form.
The Lackey normal B2 string should be added by all means, since it is inferior to the other B2 string (thus adding it wouldn't be broken) and it is unfair to be left without an overhead when Ferra is unmounted.
@Doombawkz
@Forr

 

[Audit]

Having access to Lackey specials while in Ruthless/Vivious when Ferra is unmounted, that would be unfair for Lackey and chaotic/overpowerfull for the other Variations. The first hit of Ruthless/Vicious Tuck 'n' Charge is quite fast and the move does get you out of the corner. I'd say they should buff that move a bit and be done with it. Since it is one of the only two wake-up options and the only truly viable one, I suggest they offer some more armored frames on the EX Tuck 'n' Charge, for it has very few of those and that gets us blown up on metered wake-up too often. After all, the EX version does not increase the damage, so more armored frames is a necessity imo. They should also increase the damage the enhancement does for it is ridiculously low for wasting a bar of meter. They could also give Tuck 'n' Charge +10 frames of hit adv. so that we may set-up the projectile mix-up afterwards, which is not viable at only +5 fr. that the move as of now gives on hit, if I recall correctly.

If there are to be some more Lackey moves in the other unmounted Variations, the only special move that wouldn't be broken imo is the Lackey Command Grab. It serves & complements the same purpose as Lackey D1; quick & good reach to retaliate those who go in as soon as Ferra becomes unmounted. Back Breaker would provide ample time and space for Ferra to get mounted again.! But even without it, we still get Lackey normal grab for that purpose, its just that back breaker has better hitbox. The Roll special should be buffed to recover faster on whiff in order to offer some more much needed mobility to the projectile-less Lackey Variation. In that sense it cannot be given to other Variations and the EX Torryuken is of course too powerful to be given and it doesn't make sense to give the special without its EX form.
The Lackey normal B2 string should be added by all means, since it is inferior to the other B2 string (thus adding it wouldn't be broken) and it is unfair to be left without an overhead when Ferra is unmounted.
@Doombawkz
@Forr

Dont fuck up Lackey because you people are asking for buffs instead of leveling up with Vicious . So sick of this whiny nerf/buff culture that NRS and TYM created.

 

[RM Jonnitti]

my character has weaknesses bottom 5!

 

[Forr]

Having access to Lackey specials while in Ruthless/Vivious when Ferra is unmounted, that would be unfair for Lackey and chaotic/overpowerfull for the other Variations. The first hit of Ruthless/Vicious Tuck 'n' Charge is quite fast and the move does get you out of the corner. I'd say they should buff that move a bit and be done with it. Since it is one of the only two wake-up options and the only truly viable one, I suggest they offer some more armored frames on the EX Tuck 'n' Charge, for it has very few of those and that gets us blown up on metered wake-up too often. After all, the EX version does not increase the damage, so more armored frames is a necessity imo. They should also increase the damage the enhancement does for it is ridiculously low for wasting a bar of meter. They could also give Tuck 'n' Charge +10 frames of hit adv. so that we may set-up the projectile mix-up afterwards, which is not viable at only +5 fr. that the move as of now gives on hit, if I recall correctly.

If there are to be some more Lackey moves in the other unmounted Variations, the only special move that wouldn't be broken imo is the Lackey Command Grab. It serves & complements the same purpose as Lackey D1; quick & good reach to retaliate those who go in as soon as Ferra becomes unmounted. Back Breaker would provide ample time and space for Ferra to get mounted again.! But even without it, we still get Lackey normal grab for that purpose, its just that back breaker has better hitbox. The Roll special should be buffed to recover faster on whiff in order to offer some more much needed mobility to the projectile-less Lackey Variation. In that sense it cannot be given to other Variations and the EX Torryuken is of course too powerful to be given and it doesn't make sense to give the special without its EX form.
The Lackey normal B2 string should be added by all means, since it is inferior to the other B2 string (thus adding it wouldn't be broken) and it is unfair to be left without an overhead when Ferra is unmounted.
@Doombawkz
@Forr

I think all Lackey specials should stay Lackey specific, but I agree that normals should all switch to Lackey if Ferra is off our back.

 

[RM Jonnitti]

the real question is do we know enough about all the characters and their variations to have a real bottom 5?