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General/Other - Ferra/Torr F/T is bottom 5! Lets do this.

Jibbjab

PSN: Physicke
Apart from our lack of reliable AA and a few hitbox fixes I think F/T is mostly OKAY at the moment. A few damage tweaks and perhaps the ability to meter burn boss toss would be nice.
The recent patch left Ruthless in a really strong place which is being highly neglected by the rest of MK community. I think most of F/Ts problems stem from underexposure and use. Apart from Biohazard no one is travelling with them and I can only think of a handful of people who are putting in serious work with the character.
 
Apart from our lack of reliable AA and a few hitbox fixes I think F/T is mostly OKAY at the moment. A few damage tweaks and perhaps the ability to meter burn boss toss would be nice.
The recent patch left Ruthless in a really strong place which is being highly neglected by the rest of MK community. I think most of F/Ts problems stem from underexposure and use. Apart from Biohazard no one is travelling with them and I can only think of a handful of people who are putting in serious work with the character.
AA is really big in this game because people love to jump.I agree I honestly feel his one of the most balance characters in Mkx but others in the cast just are better in a lot areas.More damage potential.Playing Ferra/Torr is big about space and I feel alot of times when I play Ferra/Torr the characters play style is to take trade damage and win on top.
 

Jibbjab

PSN: Physicke
AA is really big in this game because people love to jump.I agree I honestly feel his one of the most balance characters in Mkx but others in the cast just are better in a lot areas.More damage potential.Playing Ferra/Torr is big about space and I feel alot of times when I play Ferra/Torr the characters play style is to take trade damage and win on top.
On read, Ferra Toss can be used to AA in the mid range. It has a nice arc at this range which catches jump ins as well as jump backs. Abusing NjP is also a viable strategy to attempt to tell people it's not okay to jump. While in Vicious our damage output maybe low an advantage appears in the fact we don't need meter for combos. ~30% off both a safe low and overhead starter is really nice and meter can be saved for wake ups, breakers and the ole 50% x-ray.
Spacing with F/T is incredibly important in Vicious and Ruthless, but thankfully you have the tools to do so. B2 is an amazing spacing tool as well as no Ferra D1. I don't believe we really trade that often, B2 is just so good for keeping them out of your face and the threat of such a godly NjP can stop people running in willy nilly.
F/T is incredibly balanced in what some people believe is a broke mans game, but I am nearly content with where the character is right now. We don't need to be top tier, we just need some time to develop and perhaps a little popularity.

Another buff thread
In his defensive we are often regarded as a bottom 5 character, even bottom 2. So more buffs for F/T aren't really out of the question. However Doombawks already has a really nice buff thread up with a lot of great info.
 

Trauma_and_Pain

Filthy Casual
Vicious:
An Anti Air Projectile.Torr should get a move where he throwns Ferra in the air diagonal so she caught people who try to jump in or back jump.
Vicious and Ruthless already have exactly what you just described. Ferra Toss: input DB2. You even have 3 ranges to choose from. It does solid damage. Lackey's DB2 is like a fast, lunging uppercut and is similar for AA purposes.

If we do need another AA option, it would be for controlling the space right above our head, like Mileena or Goro.

Bowl Girl (BF2),Ferra Toss (DB2),and Boss Toss(BF4) should all get meter burn extension
I don't necessarily agree with that but that's just my opinion. I think the most that's needed is for Ferra to not whiff after Torr gets hit.
Reason throwing ferra is great but doesn't give you alot of damage.
Dude, Boss Toss does 16% damage. She's the hardest hitting projectile in the game, except possibly Jax's EX Rocket Launcher, and she eats projectiles. And Ferra Toss/Bowl Girl do more damage than most projectiles too. This isn't a zoning character. Our projectiles are more about space control, AA and even blockstrings, a frametrap and technically mixups. Something to smash Ice Clone.

I'm fine with not being able to really zone players when our footsie game is as good as it is and almost everything is as safe as it is.

Pain and Gain add to Vicious.
No.
I think Ruthless should be change all together
A lot of people seem to think it's a really fun and unique variation in spirit of the character. Besides that, why would the dev team make the effort after finally bringing the variation in line? More on this later.
Lackey.
A Command thrown extension.Put in inputs to extend the damage of his command thrown to make more scary like Jax's wrestler.Reason Torr command throw is ok but that just it nothing more nothing less it doesn't do great amount of damage.But if there input where you could change positions and add more damage the payout would be better.
Personally I don't like the Command Grab extensions with Jax. It's annoying and they seem to have a small input window. If you fuck this up, you're now in the corner instead of your opponent. I'm not totally against the idea, but the Command Grab is very useful without a damage buff. It's purpose is an ender and sometimes footsie tool.

It's fast and long range. You can change the direction if you EX, but even without that, this is what we have Kaber Toss for. You use it either zero, one, or two times in combos depending on where you want to position the opponent.

I want Lackey to get something, I just don't think the Command Grab needs to be touched. It's perfect.

Ruthless
I honestly feel Ruthless and Vicious are two alike.i wish that they made a style that Ferra/Torr would fight as tag team partners.That you would play Torr but could summon in Ferra like how Sonya does the drone.Then Ferra could like bite their ankles and jump of Torr for a body slam,she could jump on their face etc for some high / low /throw setups .Just think it would be interesting.what do you guys think?
All right. I like where you went with the ankle biting and, um... face... jumping. But it won't happen. I commend your creativity though. This tag team concept already happens a little with Ruthless Command Grab, Boss Toss, X-Ray. I'm not sure you can fit these mechanics in without breaking something. If anything, this concept makes more sense for Lackey, since Ferra is just chilling on the sidelines the whole time.
 
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Wetdoba

All too easy...
Vicious and Ruthless already have exactly what you just described. Ferra Toss: input DB2. You even have 3 ranges to choose from. It does solid damage. Lackey's DB2 is like a fast, lunging uppercut and is similar for AA purposes.

If we do need another AA option, it would be for controlling the space right above our head, like Mileena or Goro.



I don't necessarily agree with that but that's just my opinion. I think the most that's needed is for Ferra to not whiff after Torr gets hit.


Dude, Boss Toss does 16% damage. She's the hardest hitting projectile in the game, except possibly Jax's EX Rocket Launcher, and she eats projectiles. And Ferra Toss/Bowl Girl do more damage than most projectiles too. This isn't a zoning character. Our projectiles are more about space control, AA and even blockstrings, a frametrap and technically mixups. Something to smash Ice Clone.

I'm fine with not being able to really zone players when our footsie game is as good as it is and almost everything is as safe as it is.



No.


A lot of people seem to think it's a really fun and unique variation in spirit of the character. Besides that, why would the dev team make the effort after finally bringing the variation in line? More on this later.


Personally I don't like the Command Grab extensions with Jax. It's annoying and they seem to have a small input window. If you fuck this up, you're now in the corner instead of your opponent. I'm not totally against the idea, but the Command Grab is very useful without a damage buff. It's purpose is an ender and sometimes footsie tool.

It's fast and long range. You can change the direction if you EX, but even without that, this is what we have Kaber Toss for. You use it either zero, one, or two times in combos depending on where you want to position the opponent.

I want Lackey to get something, I just don't think the Command Grab needs to be touched. It's perfect.



All right. I like where you went with the ankle biting and, um... face... jumping. But it won't happen. I commend your creativity though. This tag team concept already happens a little with Ruthless Command Grab, Boss Toss, X-Ray. I'm not sure you can fit these mechanics in without breaking something. If anything, this concept makes more sense for Lackey, since Ferra is just chilling on the sidelines the whole time.
This summary is pretty much perfect on all parts. The footsie and space control aspect of this character is the best and most unique part about them, Lackey including.

Vicious could be helped by an up normal like Goros where Ferra stabs them like D1 since Vicious is the most space control oriented and thats the one space they dont have a move for. Of course Ferra would have to be on your back to do it too. Ruthless needs nothing its perfect as is as the pressure and damage variation. Lackey I think could use a little more advantage on hit for the command grab. I kind of like throwing them fullscreen for corner carry but Torr needs a little more time to catch up, after all he did just break their back, they should be slow to get up. EX version should be a hard knock down as well. Only other thing I can think of would be actually making EX Torryuken 0 on block but I dont really think he needs that, the more advantage after a command grab would be better imo. If we got those two things or something similiar this character would be perfect. Oh yeah and if we throw Ferra she should loss her hitbox because Torr got hit, but thats all we really need, nothing drastic
 
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Trauma_and_Pain

Filthy Casual
idk how much Ferra weighs lol
I'd say she's about as tall as an average 4-5 year old, and her proportions are pretty average, so let's say she weighs 36 lbs. 40 lbs with gear.

Torr probably weighs fuckin, idk... between 600-900 lbs. That might sound too high, but his upper body and arms are completely inhuman. Silverback gorillas weigh up to 500 lbs, and he's bigger than any silverback in every way.

So 40 lbs is only ~5% of his weight. He wouldn't move too much quicker without her.

It's whatever though. Gameplay before realism.
 
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MK Led

Umbasa
I'd say she's about as tall as an average 4-5 year old, and her proportions are pretty average, so let's say she weighs 36 lbs. 40 lbs with gear.

Torr probably weighs fuckin, idk... between 600-900 lbs. That might sound too high, but his upper body and arms are completely inhuman. Silverback gorillas weigh up to 500 lbs, and he's bigger than any silverback in every way.

So 40 lbs is only ~5% of his weight. He wouldn't move too much quicker without her.

It's whatever though. Gameplay before realism.
True lol, Torr is a fairly big dude. But yeah, I feel like not having a shit tier run speed would benefit lackey, haha.
 

Skedar70

Warrior
On read, Ferra Toss can be used to AA in the mid range. It has a nice arc at this range which catches jump ins as well as jump backs. Abusing NjP is also a viable strategy to attempt to tell people it's not okay to jump. While in Vicious our damage output maybe low an advantage appears in the fact we don't need meter for combos. ~30% off both a safe low and overhead starter is really nice and meter can be saved for wake ups, breakers and the ole 50% x-ray.
Spacing with F/T is incredibly important in Vicious and Ruthless, but thankfully you have the tools to do so. B2 is an amazing spacing tool as well as no Ferra D1. I don't believe we really trade that often, B2 is just so good for keeping them out of your face and the threat of such a godly NjP can stop people running in willy nilly.
F/T is incredibly balanced in what some people believe is a broke mans game, but I am nearly content with where the character is right now. We don't need to be top tier, we just need some time to develop and perhaps a little popularity.



In his defensive we are often regarded as a bottom 5 character, even bottom 2. So more buffs for F/T aren't really out of the question. However Doombawks already has a really nice buff thread up with a lot of great info.
I play Ruthless and I don't know why they say he/she is bottom 5. I think it is more because F/T is underrepresented in the competitive scene and they aren't many players using the character(so they haven't realized that the character is good). He/She has all the tools it needs to be completely viable. Well at least in ruthless I don't know the other two.
 

Matador Fiend

Kombatant
I love playing Lackey because Torr reminds me of Moloch from the old MK games. Then someone picks GM sub and I have to abandon FT since I dont know how to use their other variations >.<
 

Barrogh

Meta saltmine
its not good at all unless you use the armored one
Story of every "AA" move in the game. NRS couldn't into partial invulnerability back in MK9 times, they still can't.
I have no bloody idea why the hell somebody may think that safe or even advantageous attack that comes out in single-digit amount of frames and often has amazing reach is entitled to land or at least trade if thrown out randomly in neutral and opponent doesn't predict that hard.