General/Other - Sub-Zero Sub-Zero General Discussion

[Wowbiggulps]

that doesn't sound right. pig is doing kenshi tech what exactly are you talking about?

Check out his status update

 

[Lokheit]

For whatever reason, B33 to ice ball connects midscreen on all female characters.

That sounds like an issue that shouldn't be happening. Either it should connect on all characters or none, having the "sex default model" of the character affect gameplay balance is wrong so I hope they fix it (and I wouldn't be mad if the fix is favorable and it connects on all models as it feels like there is a huge lack of non EX iceball openers compared with MK9).

So no one else is having issues connecting f42, 1+3 exclusively on airborne opponents like I previously mentioned? I guess that's a good thing. If it's just me, I'll figure it out. If it was a controller thing, it would bum me out more than I already am in lieu of all these problems hindering me from enjoying the damn game.

I don't know if this will help, but the throw command "counts" as 1+3, it's what I use to make sure I don't miss the 1+3 and it's working fine for me.

 

[Rickyraws]

That sounds like an issue that shouldn't be happening. Either it should connect on all characters or none, having the "sex default model" of the character affect gameplay balance is wrong so I hope they fix it (and I wouldn't be mad if the fix is favorable and it connects on all models as it feels like there is a huge lack of non EX iceball openers compared with MK9).



I don't know if this will help, but the throw command "counts" as 1+3, it's what I use to make sure I don't miss the 1+3 and it's working fine for me.

Thanks for the suggestion. Unfortunately, like I said earlier it still didn't work. I'll be off work in a few hours. Gonna try another 4 hours to get it to connect before I give up entirely.

 

[Swaggy T]

I'm new to this so bear with me. I'm not sure where this goes or if it has already been posted, but to get the revenant sub zero skin you have to complete the test your might tower. Just spreading the knowledge since I've been looking for it and it seems not many people know how to get it.

 

[Lokheit]

So I'm trying to like Cryomancer variation, I'm really trying because I like how it looks with the frozen arms and kori weapons and I tend to be a bit rushdown and you'd think this one should be that.

The problem is that I can't figure out what Cryomancer is supposed to do, what would be the ideal playstyle or identity with it.

- With GM you auto win footsies battles and corner trap like crazy.

- With UB you destroy zoners by making all chip zero and then EX iceblasting through projectiles, and you also force rushdown players to respect you if you can make good reads.

But with CM... you get a couple of things, like a longer uppercut that is a better anti air or the ability to end combos with a standing opponent (I actually like this part as I don't like to react against wakeups) but that seems to be it.

In terms of damage it's just slightly higher than the others, like +5% extra damage or even less, which doesn't make up for losing the strategic tools on the other 2.

The hammer doesn't seem to be good enough for mixups (B3,3 and B2 are the mixups and you have them in every variation), just being used in enhanced version for combos that aren't so much better than the others.

The sword strings added to the normal attacks doesn't seem to be used too much, maybe the launcher one but that's all, even if I think there is reaching potential here, I don't see anyone making strategies around them.

So... what am I doing wrong here? What is supposed to be the correct gameplay to maximize this playstyle strength and make it worth not picking the other 2? I really want to play this one but I can't see which defining identity it has.

 

[OnizukaPM]

Hello boys, sry for bad english.
I got few questions about GM Sub

1) What is the antiair? Uppercut? Any comboable options? How to deal with crossup punches?
2) How to pressure up opponents outside of the corner? I mean i just go D3 D3 F33, thats basicly all, other strings seems so shitty, w/o range. I just miss 22 from MK9 so much =[. HELP
3) Are there any better combo`s than those at Tom Brady guide? What is your BnB midscreen/corner/using meter?
4) Most important, how the hell do u guys move on map? In MK9 it was simple, just dash block. In MKX dash seems useless, cant be canceled into block. U just use this RUN option? Running feels weird and hard to cancel at the right time ;/
5) Last one, how do u punish midair frozen opponents(some1 jumped into clone) and when u iceball them?

thanks in advance, sry for noob questions ;d

 

[Bopper69]

So I'm trying to like Cryomancer variation, I'm really trying because I like how it looks with the frozen arms and kori weapons and I tend to be a bit rushdown and you'd think this one should be that.

Personally, I'm trying to main the Cryomancer variation as I feel cheap as hell using grandmaster. I hope that doesn't upset people here but I can't help it. Plus I really like the EX df2 move and the anti-air from cryomancer.

 

[Lokheit]

Personally, I'm trying to main the Cryomancer variation as I feel cheap as hell using grandmaster. I hope that doesn't upset people here but I can't help it. Plus I really like the EX df2 move and the anti-air from cryomancer.

Yeah there is a lot of clone love. I can see why, but personally I was never good setting up the clone in MK9, but I was good at making reads after the 22 chain, so I though "the variation with weapons will get something similar to the old 22", turns out, not so much. I've been experimenting a bit with some of the sword chains, whiffing the first hit to try to surprise with the extended range on the second one (btw, Tom's guide is missing the 11+1 extra hit on the Cryomancer variation which is one of the moves I'm testing for this purpose, and it's looking relatively safe if it's bloqued from max distance).

I'm still not too convinced about this variation's advantages, most of what it can do is after you get the opponent off guard but it lacks tools to get to that point that the other variations have, this is in part why I'm experimenting with the extended range on strings to see if it's viable to get the opponent mad on the guessing game.




EDIT:

On a different topic, has his B33 been fixed? Yesterday it was reported to only connect the regular ice ball on female models, yesterday I was always practicing against Quan Chi and it never connected, today it's connecting, so it looks like B33 now connects Ice Ball regularly, will need to check against other models, but it looks like a quick fix was made. EDIT2: Nevermind now it isn't working, I'm not sure if it's related to be playing on an old computer and frame data not adjusting correctly. If others have cases where it connects in open field just in some situations I think this should be adressed by NRS.

 

[Bopper69]

Yeah there is a lot of clone love. I can see why, but personally I was never good setting up the clone in MK9, but I was good at making reads after the 22 chain, so I though "the variation with weapons will get something similar to the old 22", turns out, not so much. I've been experimenting a bit with some of the sword chains, whiffing the first hit to try to surprise with the extended range on the second one (btw, Tom's guide is missing the 11+1 extra hit on the Cryomancer variation which is one of the moves I'm testing for this purpose, and it's looking relatively safe if it's bloqued from max distance).

I'm still not too convinced about this variation's advantages, most of what it can do is after you get the opponent off guard but it lacks tools to get to that point that the other variations have, this is in part why I'm experimenting with the extended range on strings to see if it's viable to get the opponent mad on the guessing game.

Yeah I don't believe there is much of an advantage using the cryomancer variation but I'm just gonna use it to be different. Although, ill probably just use the ice klone variation as a back-up if im struggling to beat someone using cryomancer. I haven't actually tried the other variation yet so I can't compare with that although most people seem to be using Grandmaster over this anyway.

 

[sIllverback]

Cryomancer has the advantage of being able to re-stand with 42 1+3. Conditioning your opponent to not do anything after the restand allows you to go into your 50/50 game. While Grandmaster has the "footsie" and corner advantage, Cryomancer has the advantage midscreen once you get momentum going and make your opponent respect you.

For instance, after the restand ender you can:
B2 - stops opponents from neutral jumping or jumping back.
Run up, B33 - standard low starter into another 50/50
EX Hammer - Opponent presses a button, they get launched, more 50/50
Run up throw - just for mind games or to push further into corner
Block/Do nothing - usually do this first to see how your opponent reacts to get out of the 50/50 situation

Cryomancer isn't all that bad. I just play GM because I suck at footsies and the corner traps are too gdlk.

 

[Endeavor]

Ok so now that the game is out, I have been trying to find a way to pressure with this character, or in this game in general, but since ALL of his stings are negative I'm finding it difficult,anyone got any ideas or tips on how to pressure and reset pressure?Also I have heard that you can RC(run cancel) strings, is that character specific or can everyonedo it?

 

[huh]

Guys, anyone are experiencing this kind of problems with the ice clone:

With the ice clone out against Raiden, Raiden did that superman flying move directly into the ice clone and he didn't get freezed nor the clone shattered. Raiden just went to the ground and then he walked through the clone as if wasn't there.

Also I've heard reports about some teleport characters also walking through the clone after a teleport.

Is it supposed to happen or it is a glitch?

 

[Qwark28]

Ok so now that the game is out, I have been trying to find a way to pressure with this character, or in this game in general, but since ALL of his stings are negative I'm finding it difficult,anyone got any ideas or tips on how to pressure and reset pressure?Also I have heard that you can RC(run cancel) strings, is that character specific or can everyonedo it?

You're not supposed to do string into string into string.

This is why I like the clone, it's a good cancel after having something blocked.

 

[Lokheit]

Guys, anyone are experiencing this kind of problems with the ice clone:

With the ice clone out against Raiden, Raiden did that superman flying move directly into the ice clone and he didn't get freezed nor the clone shattered. Raiden just went to the ground and then he walked through the clone as if wasn't there.

Also I've heard reports about some teleport characters also walking through the clone after a teleport.

Is it supposed to happen or it is a glitch?

I think this is due to moves being EX to get armor, which nullifies the "hit" from the clone that would freeze them. In the case of Raiden, he ignores the clone and normally finds you, connecting the superman, in the case of teleportes I saw on Tom Brady's twitch explained that if someone gets with armor into the clone, and then stay there, they won't be frozen because their collision boxes should separate before touching again to consider that there is a hit and that's why they can stand in the same position.

As a side note, I'm finding this game much more dependant on the EX bar than MK9, I'm almost not even bothering to learn X-Ray combos because I don't see a situation in a serious match where I would have enough bar to spend on an X-Ray instead of strategies.

 

[huh]

I think this is due to moves being EX to get armor, which nullifies the "hit" from the clone that would freeze them. In the case of Raiden, he ignores the clone and normally finds you, connecting the superman, in the case of teleportes I saw on Tom Brady's twitch explained that if someone gets with armor into the clone, and then stay there, they won't be frozen because their collision boxes should separate before touching again to consider that there is a hit and that's why they can stand in the same position.

Thx for the clarification.

Then, it would be better if the clone shattered if hit by an armored move. It would look less "glitchy"

 

[Lokheit]

Thx for the clarification.

Then, it would be better if the clone shattered if hit by an armored move. It would look less "glitchy"

I'm not sure how the code is wrote, but if they won't freeze because no collision is detected, then under the same system they wouldn't shatter it either because the game isn't checking for that collision.

I don't know how much RAM it would take for the clone to try to always detect if it's touching something, rather than what seems to be the current method based on a single collision detection. I don't think it would consume much memory as you only keep 1 clone at a time (2 in GM vs GM), but maybe it does and that's why they keep it this way (or it may be an oversight).

Another thing they could do is that when the armor frames end, it could "throw" a collision based on the character position to check if they're touching the clone or similar stuff, that shouldn't consume as much memory as the clone asking every frame if it's touching something.

Edit: On second though I'm not sure if what I said about the code works really that way, during the Outworld Invasion Boss, Mileena had permanent armor and she broke the clone multiple times when I was using GM (I recommend Unbreakable if you want to consume the timer of that fight though), maybe there are extra conditions needed to produce the "stantind on the clone" situation.

 

[VenomX-90]

Just found out Sub's second fatality by guessing it and luck, it is down back down forward O or 4 in close range. If you haven't figured it out yet.

 

[nfdsallwd]

be careful with cancelling into clones against kung jin, they found a good punish. mix it up

 

[xQUANTUMx]

be careful with cancelling into clones against kung jin, they found a good punish. mix it up

care to elabortate?

 

[nfdsallwd]

care to elabortate?

http://testyourmight.com/threads/kung-jin-living-guide-thread.49650/page-6#post-1664271

this post

 

[Lokheit]

care to elabortate?

I don't know about that one but probably it's related to the bow being able to hit you through the clone or armoring up with an EX move.

 

[xQUANTUMx]

meh, his clone is already 50x better than it was in mk9. This won't really discourage me. But thanks for the FYI

 

[lm Tweakk]

Jip standing 4 ice clone connects in the corner , leads to a 44% no bar

 

[NRF CharlieMurphy]

After seeing the b12 reset in the unbreakable variation with ice aura.... and seeing how insane his corner damage is with a clone.....

Cryomancer is just... sad face.

 

[lm Tweakk]

After seeing the b12 reset in the unbreakable variation with ice aura.... and seeing how insane his corner damage is with a clone.....

Cryomancer is just... sad face.

Can I see a link to that please?