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General/Other - Sub-Zero Sub-Zero General Discussion

Kooron Nation

More Ass and Tits for MK11
Yeah I do think Cryo is mid tier, Unbreakable is high mid, and Grandmaster is low high. Lol I obviously don't think Cryo is shit he's a good variation, I just think people jumped the gun is all. Glad you're enjoying him welcome to the Lin Kuei.
It's pretty absurd how much they nerfed his damage, but I guess with all the tick throw options it balances out.
What's a max damage corner combo? I'm only used to his old combos before the command grab @SaSSolino
 
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SaSSolino

Soul Stealing Loyalist
Premium Supporter
It's pretty absurd how much they nerfed his damage, but I guess with all the tick throw options it balances out.
What's a max damage corner combo? I'm only used to his old combos before the command grab @SaSSolino
I honestly don't know, I don't even do optimal damage myself.

The combo should be b2 b2 d1 d1 d1 b12xxCGxxHammer, and it should deal around 40-45% meterless.
 

exisTenz

Noob
I honestly don't know, I don't even do optimal damage myself.

The combo should be b2 b2 d1 d1 d1 b12xxCGxxHammer, and it should deal around 40-45% meterless.
That combo does 37 or 38% (Don't remember exactly since I haven't played Cryo in a while.) Max damage I got for 1 bar was like 42% and the combo was b2, b2, d1, b12xxPPxxEX Hammer, b12xxPPxxHammer
 
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Lokheit

Noob
Since the patch the combo damage depends a lot on what you consider a "realistic" combo during a match (I only consider realistic something you can hit 10 out of 10 times, or at least 95 out of 100). Before the patch all optimal combos were pretty easy to execute (except the reverse B2 ones, but the rest was potato easy and that's why so many new players would go to him but not anymore, that spot belongs just to Ninjutsu now).

The optimal combos list was very straight forward before but now the branches of combo paths diverge a lot between optimal damage and recomended execution paths, so much that I ended giving up on making the combo list because the full thing was going to be too long to be helpful if I was going to include too hard execution optimal damage, moderate execution with midrange damage and potato execution with just enough damage to stay competitive for all paths, screen positions and meter usage (that and also after more than a year loyal to Cryomancer and Kenjutsu, I'm so disappointed about their bad state during the whole lifespan of the game that I got a bit disinterested).

Right now the difference between highest damage but not realistic to use on a match (because dropping a combo is worse than going for safe damage) and easy combos is pretty wide in some cases, up to 6-8% damage in some cases IIRC.

The combo should be b2 b2 d1 d1 d1 b12xxCGxxHammer, and it should deal around 40-45% meterless.
Lol you're off by almost 10% damage... if your version of the game is bugged and that's his damage, now I understand why you hated Cryomancer during almost the full lifespan of the game.

PS: And if it depended on me I'd gladly remove the stupid duckable tick throws in exchange for F12 and F42 reversing their atrocious nerfs (that were nerfed so you could connect the stupid tick throw on block anyway) and instead of the path they took to buff the character, this time they adress the brutally bad neutral game with something like deleting the first hit of F122 or increasing the range of the joke move known as Air Hammer. It was as easy as that.

Not gonna happen because the game is finished but with Cryomancer still on the lower mid tier (arguably worse than before when considering the meta changes) and Kenjutsu on the dead end of low tiers (not to mention that technically my third character variation was Warlock... ughh...), all the enduring was for nothing. Sorry for going all emo, I guess I should've stayed with the better variations of each character instead of trying so hard to stick with the ones I liked the most hoping that some day they would get better.

Right now I can only think about playing Injustice 2 Sub-Zero and Poison Ivy and forget the depressing experience with my MKX main variations
 

SaSSolino

Soul Stealing Loyalist
Premium Supporter
That combo does 37 or 38% (Don't remember exactly since I haven't played Cryo in a while.) Max damage I got for 1 bar was like 42% and the combo was b2, b2, d1, b12xxPPxxEX Hammer, b12xxHammer
Since the patch the combo damage depends a lot on what you consider a "realistic" combo during a match (I only consider realistic something you can hit 10 out of 10 times, or at least 95 out of 100). Before the patch all optimal combos were pretty easy to execute (except the reverse B2 ones, but the rest was potato easy and that's why so many new players would go to him but not anymore, that spot belongs just to Ninjutsu now).

The optimal combos list was very straight forward before but now the branches of combo paths diverge a lot between optimal damage and recomended execution paths, so much that I ended giving up on making the combo list because the full thing was going to be too long to be helpful if I was going to include too hard execution optimal damage, moderate execution with midrange damage and potato execution with just enough damage to stay competitive for all paths, screen positions and meter usage (that and also after more than a year loyal to Cryomancer and Kenjutsu, I'm so disappointed about their bad state during the whole lifespan of the game that I got a bit disinterested).

Right now the difference between highest damage but not realistic to use on a match (because dropping a combo is worse than going for safe damage) and easy combos is pretty wide in some cases, up to 6-8% damage in some cases IIRC.



Lol you're off by almost 10% damage... if your version of the game is bugged and that's his damage, now I understand why you hated Cryomancer during almost the full lifespan of the game.

PS: And if it depended on me I'd gladly remove the stupid duckable tick throws in exchange for F12 and F42 reversing their atrocious nerfs (that were nerfed so you could connect the stupid tick throw on block anyway) and instead of the path they took to buff the character, this time they adress the brutally bad neutral game with something like deleting the first hit of F122 or increasing the range of the joke move known as Air Hammer. It was as easy as that.

Not gonna happen because the game is finished but with Cryomancer still on the lower mid tier (arguably worse than before when considering the meta changes) and Kenjutsu on the dead end of low tiers (not to mention that technically my third character variation was Warlock... ughh...), all the enduring was for nothing. Sorry for going all emo, I guess I should've stayed with the better variations of each character instead of trying so hard to stick with the ones I liked the most hoping that some day they would get better.

Right now I can only think about playing Injustice 2 Sub-Zero and Poison Ivy and forget the depressing experience with my MKX main variations
Yeah, you guys are right. I forgot the actual damage, but again, I don't do optimal as I mostly play him for fun.

@Lokheit Besides the fact that in my opinion every CG should be a high, I think you are going too far. I understand that you like to play neutral (and so do I), but having Cryo with a strong neutral is too much considering all his options.
 

Lokheit

Noob
Yeah, you guys are right. I forgot the actual damage, but again, I don't do optimal as I mostly play him for fun.

@Lokheit Besides the fact that in my opinion every CG should be a high, I think you are going too far. I understand that you like to play neutral (and so do I), but having Cryo with a strong neutral is too much considering all his options.
Yeah I know, it's mostly that I would've prefered it over the command grab a trillion times because the way the variation was designed, it didn't help too much (specially when it came with the F12 and F24 nerfs), of course I wouldn't want both of them at the same time for balance sake.
 

rubmytaco

CarriedByClone
Yeah, you guys are right. I forgot the actual damage, but again, I don't do optimal as I mostly play him for fun.

@Lokheit Besides the fact that in my opinion every CG should be a high, I think you are going too far. I understand that you like to play neutral (and so do I), but having Cryo with a strong neutral is too much considering all his options.
Sub Zero deserves at least one variation that can actually play neutral. Hiding behind ice clone doesn't count.
 

Youphemism

Gunslinger since pre patch (sh/out to The Farmer)
Whenever I play Cryo I do B2, B2, F122, 111~DBF3 for 36% meterless. I believe that's optimal meterless in the corner. Don't usually spend bar in the corner myself so couldn't tell you what's optimal for a bar lol
 

Dankster Morgan

she don’t call me daddy she call me Grandmaster
Whenever I play Cryo I do B2, B2, F122, 111~DBF3 for 36% meterless. I believe that's optimal meterless in the corner. Don't usually spend bar in the corner myself so couldn't tell you what's optimal for a bar lol
Yeah typically don't either in the corner, way better to save it for mb command grab.
 

SaSSolino

Soul Stealing Loyalist
Premium Supporter
Sub Zero deserves at least one variation that can actually play neutral. Hiding behind ice clone doesn't count.
I say it counts if it stops most other variations to play the game at all.

Besides, SZ has some neutral: f4's decent and b2 is bullshit, it's not the best neutral in the game but you can make it work.
 

Dankster Morgan

she don’t call me daddy she call me Grandmaster
F4 is good if canceled in to aura or klone. By its self its not staggerable and has 38 recovery frames lmao by its self it's a decent move but just look at it next to the mids that most of the cast have. Plus you should just be doing 50/50s anyway with Sub.