Incomming patch!! .... wait what??

[Error]

Don't Liu Kang and Cage's xray parry also get hit out of by lows? I wouldn't see fairness in making CSZ impervious to more.

Liu Kang's yeah, Cage's no, it only get's stuffed by certain strings and it's still situational whether or not it get's stuffed.

 

[UsedForGlue]

Well... thats different. I remember reading you say to pressure with 21 repeatedly as in 21,21,21... maybe i missunderstood.



lol at you pretending not to understand i was actually making a point.

no hard feelings though

:focus:

So... here is a few CSZ frame data info that shows how slow he is for a supposed rushdown character IHMO. Please note that as confirmed by NRS, frame data is variable in this game, so this may vary 1 frame up or down for some moves:

Input | Startup | Recovery | On Block |
---------------------
1 | 11 | 14 | 0 |
---------------------
2 | 15 | 16 | 0 |
---------------------
3 | 14 | 23 | -6 |
---------------------
4 | 23 | 23 | 0 |
---------------------
B1 | 30 | 25 | +1 |
---------------------
B2 | 17 | 26 | 0 |
---------------------
B3 | 27 | 22 | -4 |
----------------------
B4 | 18 | 31 | -7 |
----------------------
F1 | 17 | 26 | -9 |
----------------------
F2 | 17 | 20 | 0 |
----------------------
F3 | na | na | na |
----------------------
F4 | 26 | 32 | -23 |
----------------------
D1 | 10 | 20 | *** |
----------------------
D2 | 14 | 22 | -10 |
----------------------
D3 | 7 | 18 | *** |
----------------------
D4 | 13 | 35 | *** |
----------------------
UP4 | 25 | 75 | -48 |
----------------------
Throw | 9 | ** | 27(whiff)| B and F Throws |
-------------------------------


Discuss??




Everyone tweet cof cof @pakostevens cof cof until he bends!

jk... jk... but something must be done... otherwise fuck it... lets all just play kung lao... or jade... i heard THATS getting patched!

Quote from Paulo Garcia about the next patch for CSZ,''NOTHING'' and when asked about bombs or bombs mapping ''That is never going to happen'', and allot of other issues have not been asnwered but I was told to ''stop asking questions that have already been answered'', even though my particular questions have still never been answered, so fuck it, lets all Play Kung Lao.

 

[Niflheim]

Alright, lets all play Kung Lao. F--k this if they refuse to patch CSZ and tell you to stop asking questions. They're doing this for other characters too, it seems.

 

[Ether]

Quote from Paulo Garcia about the next patch for CSZ,''NOTHING'' and when asked about bombs or bombs mapping ''That is never going to happen'', and allot of other issues have not been asnwered but I was told to ''stop asking questions that have already been answered'', even though my particular questions have still never been answered, so fuck it, lets all Play Kung Lao.

Welp, switching to Cage.

 

[xTac]

Welp, switching to Cage.

Waiting for the patch release to decide which character i`ll pick up here...

good job nrs

 

[UsedForGlue]

Waiting for the patch release to decide which character i`ll pick up here...

good job nrs

Just look at Reo & Tom Brady's causal matches between Cyber and Kano, and look at the horrific amount of negative egde on , and the inconsistent bomb freezing after a dive kick in my question thread.

There is fuck loads wrong with Cyber sub, not ''Nothing''

 

[Niflheim]

After watching those matches, there is shit loads wrong with him. Negative edge, inconstent bombs, etc.
We need a damn petition. CSZ was good at start, but there's loads wrong with him and he's just slapped together. He needs damn patching.

 

[Big Pampering]

buff?

other than ex dive kick needing armor to move in opponents zoning him out csz doesnt need anything

If your offense consists of dashing in w 33, or 34 then you're not using him right anyway. You need to be dashing in w 2,1

Although i must admit having the bomb moved to button 4 would be very generous and nice of them

WOWWWW the 18% damage and safe on block for a lot of characters didnt already made the move more than enough powerful?

Subzero is fine, he has a lottttt of moves. low slide, low starting string, ice parry, nice projectiles, best dive kick in the game, he has overhead strings , teleport what doesnt he have?

 

[silva_777]

pokes

 

[Big Pampering]

pokes

and a spin right? my point is, he already has too many options compared to all the other characters. Characters like smoke and scorpion can get kicked out of wakeup teleport by low attacks, while cyber sub has the ice parry and ice slide(maybe more that i dont know of. the dive kick is a real good tool and can actually be abused just like kano's upball. removing the negative edge and glitches is all they need to fix on cybersub.

any buffs would be illogical like the buff suggested on his dive kick.

 

[Error]

Cyber can also be poked out of his wake-up parry. Oh you mentioned his teleport...LOL.

 

[salvificblood]

Quote from Paulo Garcia about the next patch for CSZ,''NOTHING'' and when asked about bombs or bombs mapping ''That is never going to happen'', and allot of other issues have not been asnwered but I was told to ''stop asking questions that have already been answered'', even though my particular questions have still never been answered, so fuck it, lets all Play Kung Lao.

That's a lame response to receive.CSZ would hardly be overpowered if they just fixed some of the stupid things about him. Seriously, how you guys can main a character who suffers so much from basic mapping is beyond me. I would pull my hair out.

 

[King]

-Parry needs to parry lows, but remove back to back parry.

You can parry lows currently with the parry. I've gotten my B3 as Liu Kang and Quan Chi parried many times and those are both low hits.

 

[Niflheim]

It very strange that only certain lows get parried. Liu Kang's and Quan Chi's B3, and same with Nightwolf. Only certain low moves get parried, not all of them. Infact, most of them aren't. Need to do some testing tonight on that.

 

[Error]

I don't think you can parry Nightwolf's toe-stomp, that thing has priority over everything.

 

[REO]

34 isn't + on block, it's neutral at best.

 

[Pig Of The Hut]

Guys all seriousness drop CSZ please, if u can't win with the tools he has now jump ship because he's not getting patched whatsoever

And for those that doubt CSZ add me or send me a msg on either system. CSZ is a character u can win any match w except against elite/moderate kitanas, KABALs and Laos because those are his worst 3 IMO

Against Anyone else I should be able to win and feel confident doing so as long as I didn't forget someone.

I'm done w this thread because there no point

Its been weeks since Ive pooped out a negative edge bomb i might add as well

There will be no patch therefor its time to buff the CSZ players, not the character

After this patch there will be no more buffing/nerfing- get use to CSZ now or drop him

Also can anyone name me a character on this site that doesn't have a nerf/buff thread. It's gotten ridiculous

edit: Sorry i typed the above w my iphone and there were spelling errors everywhere - I think i fixed 'em lol

 

[REO]

I disagree with Kung Lao. Yeah, he's an asshole to beat, but it's not 7-3 like Kabal and Kitana, it's more of a 6-4. Sub-Zero on the other hand, is another one of CSZ's 7-3 match-ups, he's just too much of an issue when he plays the match-up correctly.

Right now, CSZ's worst match-ups (IMO) are:

Kabal 7-3
Kitana 7-3
Sub-Zero 7-3
Mileena 6.5 - 3.5

Other than those 3 characters, he can hold his own against anyone in the cast (even Mileena) . He has a lot of 6-4 disadvantage match-ups but they're manageable.

 

[Pig Of The Hut]

I disagree with Kung Lao. Yeah, he's an asshole to beat, but it's not 7-3 like Kabal and Kitana, it's more of a 6-4. Sub-Zero on the other hand, is another one of CSZ's 7-3 match-ups, he's just too much of an issue when he plays the match-up correctly.

Right now, CSZ's worst match-ups (IMO) are:

Kabal 7-3
Kitana 7-3
Sub-Zero 7-3
Mileena 6.5 - 3.5

Other than those 3 characters, he can hold his own against anyone in the cast (even Mileena) . He has a lot of 6-4 disadvantage match-ups but they're manageable.

Completely agree except i do think IMO csz is 6-4 in sub's favor at worst. I honestly need to hold my opinion though until I play Tom's Sub before feeling concrete about this. I currently feel i know how to beat any Sub Zero w CSZ but again i could be wrong and i cant wait to try it against Tom one day.

-No dives unless it's guarenteed free

-if he clones, let him clone all he wants and if he decides to throw ice boom teleport into punish

-Absolutely no ice blast if he has meter (ex ice trade off not good)

-On knockdown Stay on his ass like flys to shit because he cant clone and off a block JIP CSZ has no lie, 17 options of mixup and most are safe.

I love tom's sub though

The problem I have w Lao and CSZ is Lao's b3 - smart Lao players really work me and my defensive w that b3 starter and bait my parrys. It's very tough w CSZ.

Reo, would you say CSZ is purely rushdown? I think he's one of the best characters in the game in terms of his mixups, pressure in the game and i love his resets.


edit: Also i want to add my Mantra and slogan with CSZ is always this: Make them RESPECT the dive kick, not expect - this allows your JIP pressure to exist and make them think twice about uppercut AA or any other AA atempts. When your opponent has a .25 second thought in his head "will he dive kick or not" you're already in by that time doing your mix up pressure tactics with him .

 

[Ether]

I'm not saying I'm the most godlike player ever and blaming my losses entirely on the character, but looking at frame data and move properties, for me personally, it doesn't make sense to continue playing CSZ over the better rushdown characters.

 

[salvificblood]

Completely agree except i do think IMO csz is 6-4 in sub's favor at worst. I honestly need to hold my opinion though until I play Tom's Sub before feeling concrete about this. I currently feel i know how to beat any Sub Zero w CSZ but again i could be wrong and i cant wait to try it against Tom one day.

-No dives unless it's guarenteed free

-if he clones, let him clone all he wants and if he decides to throw ice boom teleport into punish

-Absolutely no ice blast if he has meter (ex ice trade off not good)

-On knockdown Stay on his ass like flys to shit because he cant clone and off a block JIP CSZ has no lie, 17 options of mixup and most are safe.

If the Sub-Zero is just chucking ice from behind his clone, he's not playing the matchup correctly. Sub can actually bully CSZ off d4 and use the clone as a tool for pushing CSZ towards the corner. You can't teleport if Sub isn't chucking ice at you regularly because tele is so easy to punish with 21 or 22.

What you're syaing is correct, but the Sub player shouldn't allow you to play that way.

 

[Niflheim]

Guys all seriousness drop CSZ please, if u can't win with the tools he has now jump ship because he's not getting patched whatsoever

And for those that doubt CSZ add me or send me a msg on either system. CSZ is a character u can win any match w except against elite/moderate kitanas, KABALs and Laos because those are his worst 3 IMO

Against Anyone else I should be able to win and feel confident doing so as long as I didn't forget someone.

I'm done w this thread because there no point

Its been weeks since Ive pooped out a negative edge bomb i might add as well

There will be no patch therefor its time to buff the CSZ players, not the character

After this patch there will be no more buffing/nerfing- get use to CSZ now or drop him

Also can anyone name me a character on this site that doesn't have a nerf/buff thread. It's gotten ridiculous

edit: Sorry i typed the above w my iphone and there were spelling errors everywhere - I think i fixed 'em lol

To tell you Pig, He needs his bombs remapped. I've fucking shitted out so many bombs because I dash back and forth a lot. I play on Xbox D-pad also, so that's half the reason right there. He needs his bombs remapped some fucking way, because I'm tired of not being able to rush in with 3,3,2 or 3,4(not really that one), or 3,3, EX Freeze. I don't care what you say, but 3,3 is his only low hitting combo that's viable, the other one is b3,2, and that's slow as hell.

 

[Ghost stalker]

Quote from Paulo Garcia about the next patch for CSZ,''NOTHING'' and when asked about bombs or bombs mapping ''That is never going to happen'', and allot of other issues have not been asnwered but I was told to ''stop asking questions that have already been answered'', even though my particular questions have still never been answered, so fuck it, lets all Play Kung Lao.

Are you fucking kidding me? He should get SOMETHING. Though I'm staying with him for a while... at least until I learn someone else.

Also in response to what King said above, hell yeah you have .

 

[Pig Of The Hut]

To tell you Pig, He needs his bombs remapped. I've fucking shitted out so many bombs because I dash back and forth a lot. I play on Xbox D-pad also, so that's half the reason right there. He needs his bombs remapped some fucking way, because I'm tired of not being able to rush in with 3,3,2 or 3,4(not really that one), or 3,3, EX Freeze. I don't care what you say, but 3,3 is his only low hitting combo that's viable, the other one is b3,2, and that's slow as hell.

I'll get back on Xbl this week and we will play

I promise u I'll poop out no bomb on rush down and you will hate my pressure and will feel it.

Edit: I see you're on ps3, let's play tonight. I hate online but it's the only way right

 

[silva_777]

Lately i have been trying out csz.

Being a sub-zero mainer and getting 2 good buffs in the upcoming patch i really dont understand why csz is getting zero stuff.

sub zero is already better than csz and is getting buffs???