Incomming patch!! .... wait what??

[Ayx]

I wish they'd fix the problem with CSZ throwing out bombs when you're trying to backdash/forward dash and do moves like 3,4/3,3. That's all

This is my main complain, I mean it only happens to me 99.9% of the time. I kinda hate having to be forced to use my 2, 1 or the F2, 2, 1. I want to use my kicks. ):

 

[Past]

"every character is having something done to them except for CSZ".

Also CSZ's slide and Sub-Zero's slide are different. CSZ's slide is way more punishable on whiff and on block. I also heard they are increasing Sub-Zero's speed during his enhanced slide as well... By the looks of it, Sub-Zero is going to be more of a problem to beat than Kabal after patch. Thinking probably 8-2.

Is it too early to pronounce Cyber Sub Zero as a joke character? Someone has to be at the cellar once everyone else is buffed.

 

[RWDY Nori]

Is it too early to pronounce Cyber Sub Zero as a joke character? Someone has to be at the cellar once everyone else is buffed.

CSZ is better than Baraka/Sheeva still

 

[Past]

CSZ is better than Baraka/Sheeva still

From what REO is saying, they are getting buffed too.

 

[xTac]

I think its general agreement on this thread that he DOES need tweaks and what should be addressed by NRS is:

-Bombs negative edge
-his pokes
-1 armored move

Cant we all come together and agree to support this ? (instead of keep arguing between ourselves)

 

[Rathalos]

I think they're not bothering to really patch this guy because they have no intention of including him in future titles.

Just a vibe I've gotten. Run that one by Ed Boon/Paolo on Twitter and see what you get.

This is good possibility.

I always thought CSZ was a weirdly half assed character, like he was originally going to be a costume only, but at the last moment they decided to make him his own character, but didn't have time and just mashed sub and cyrax together with out any real thought, realizing there moves didn't really fit well together they also gave him a really powerful dive kick in order to make up for it.

I can totally see that in the next game when what ever plot device brings all the dead characters to life, sub will randomly be human again, and no one will ever mention CSZ again.

 

[KingKuma]

This is good possibility.

I always thought CSZ was a weirdly half assed character, like he was originally going to be a costume only, but at the last moment they decided to make him his own character, but didn't have time and just mashed sub and cyrax together with out any real thought, realizing there moves didn't really fit well together they also gave him a really powerful dive kick in order to make up for it.

I can totally see that in the next game when what ever plot device brings all the dead characters to life, sub will randomly be human again, and no one will ever mention CSZ again.

If they scrap Cyber Sub-Zero next game I'll be seriously disappointed. He's grown on me I guess. I think he's just a really cool character concept and puts a bit more emphasis on the "reboot" aspect of this new MK and future titles.

 

[Error]

I think its general agreement on this thread that he DOES need tweaks and what should be addressed by NRS is:

-Bombs negative edge
-his pokes
-1 armored move

Cant we all come together and agree to support this ? (instead of keep arguing between ourselves)

I like this.

 

[Enenra]

This is good possibility.

I always thought CSZ was a weirdly half assed character, like he was originally going to be a costume only, but at the last moment they decided to make him his own character, but didn't have time and just mashed sub and cyrax together with out any real thought, realizing there moves didn't really fit well together they also gave him a really powerful dive kick in order to make up for it.

I can totally see that in the next game when what ever plot device brings all the dead characters to life, sub will randomly be human again, and no one will ever mention CSZ again.

I'm fine with that.

 

[xTac]

Just to clarify...

The changes i mentioned in my last post were not proposed by me, but what seems to be the most requested fixes.

I didnt include "more consistent bomb freeze" because there is still debate on that. However, there was not much discussion regarding the other ones i mentioned as being OP as far as i remember.




UFG, being the first one who brought up the poke thing, id like to ask... if you had control, what changes would you make to his pokes?

I also want to ask the ppl requesting armor, which move would you like to have armor on and why ?

 

[Pig Of The Hut]

CSZ is better than Baraka/Sheeva still

I HIGHLY recommend u get on ps3 just to see how killer rm_like_mike is w baraka

and for sheeva check out boysboysboys

both players will influence you to never refer to baraka or sheeva as jokes

 

[Pig Of The Hut]

I think its general agreement on this thread that he DOES need tweaks and what should be addressed by NRS is:

-Bombs negative edge
-his pokes
-1 armored move

Cant we all come together and agree to support this ? (instead of keep arguing between ourselves)

if you're referring to changing ff3 then i say no because i never poop out bombs because i know to dash in w ffb 3

using "back" removes any chance of bomb pooping

please get this down then get back to me

 

[UsedForGlue]

UFG, being the first one who brought up the poke thing, id like to ask... if you had control, what changes would you make to his pokes?

I also want to ask the ppl requesting armor, which move would you like to have armor on and why ?

I would have his better, and have the same properties as Cyrax and Human Sub Zero: a +1 advantage on hit.
Also for his to have a quicker recovery.

Because as of now, he can't poke against good poking players, and he can't parry as his parry will get beating out by good pokes, his getting buffed will fix allot of his major defensive issues.

Having his grant +1 advantage on hit with a quicker recovery for a dash won't be unfair or allow him to on reaction from this, it will just grant him to option pressure without always jumping, or being out poked on any close dash into pressure.

His Ice bombs not freezing, I have come to terms with that and I can live with it, but the blast radius is pathetic and recovery time on launching a bomb is terrible also, and lets not forget, the bombs only freeze if executed while the opponent can block, so why is the radius so small and recovery so bad? So I would also request the same Radius and Recover on the bombs as Cyrax has.

His parry should have a cool down, and have no back to back option, as his pokes will now work correctly.

Cyber should be able to chain in Short and Long Dive kicks from , to give him a string to get in without jumping, and this will put together and finish off his rather odd juggle combos, this would still not be a safe option on block, as the short dive kick won't be safe on a crouching opponent, but using an :en Dive Kick will hit overhead on the last hit.

His teleport should have the same properties as Cyrax's, considering its a fucking palette swap move, and it is currently no fit way to get in on an opponent.

And finally:

Sub Zero is getting armour on his :en Slide, but he doesn't need it, I don't know at what point someone at NRS decided ''hey, sub zero isn't a good enough character'', but Cyber Sub Zero could really do with that way more than Human sub ever will, and again, THEY ARE THE EXACT SAME MOVES.

None of these will make CSZ broken or unfair, it will just make him a well rounded character and in my opinion, finally complete him, something they should have done along time ago.

 

[UsedForGlue]

CSZ getting no fixes to his problems is just bullshit, they can't even fix his pokes, and especially considering Reptile and Sub getting armour on the :en Slides, and CSZ getting nothing...Bullshit.

 

[FixdSwine]

Lets see then what he needs:
Armour on slide- Sub and reptile are getting it but cyber isn't even though they are all almost the same slide.

Fix bombs- SOMETHING needs to be done about it. I had a thread saying exactly what UsedforGlue just said, make blast radius quicker. Of course majority people shot this idea down for me pretty quickly calling it an "terrible idea".

If you can x-ray you should be able to divekick- Basically on his b+2,4 string and his B+3,2 you should be able to divekick considering you can x-ray from it.

Change bomb command- Change the 3's from the bombs to 4's, and the Slide from a 4 to a 3. That way you can close in with combos start with 3's, a fundamental attack in Cyber-sub's arsenal. Since in this case, slide is a bf+3 your 3 strings should be completely safe as Cyber doesn't have F+3 Combos.

Fix teleport- Why in God's Name is this so fucking crap even though Cyrax's is alright? It should be the SAME move.

Fix pokes-

I would have his D+4 better, and have the same properties as Cyrax and Human Sub Zero: a +1 advantage on hit.
Also for his D+3 to have a quicker recovery.

Because as of now, he can't poke against good poking players, and he can't parry as his parry will get beating out by good pokes, his getting D+3 buffed will fix allot of his major defensive issues.

Having his D+4 grant +1 advantage on hit with a quicker recovery for a dash won't be unfair or allow him to 3,3 on reaction from this, it will just grant him to option pressure without always jumping, or being out poked on any close dash into 2,1 pressure.

And just my own thought, I think his b+1 should be an Medium hit, that way it would be similar to Vanilla Sub's F+4, with a slower startup but a longer reach.

 

[CptXecution]

Lets see then what he needs:
Armour on slide- Sub and reptile are getting it but cyber isn't even though they are all almost the same slide.

Fix bombs- SOMETHING needs to be done about it. I had a thread saying exactly what UsedforGlue just said, make blast radius quicker. Of course majority people shot this idea down for me pretty quickly calling it an "terrible idea".

If you can x-ray you should be able to divekick- Basically on his b+2,4 string and his B+3,2 you should be able to divekick considering you can x-ray from it.

Change bomb command- Change the 3's from the bombs to 4's, and the Slide from a 4 to a 3. That way you can close in with combos start with 3's, a fundamental attack in Cyber-sub's arsenal. Since in this case, slide is a bf+3 your 3 strings should be completely safe as Cyber doesn't have F+3 Combos.

Fix teleport- Why in God's Name is this so fucking crap even though Cyrax's is alright? It should be the SAME move.

Fix pokes-

And just my own thought, I think his b+1 should be an Medium hit, that way it would be similar to Vanilla Sub's F+4, with a slower startup but a longer reach.

Disagree:
Armor on slide is silly when he has a teleport (yes not a good one not most are) AND a dive kick to get in and apply pressure.
And the X-Ray hits on the b3,2 because of a weird hit box so a dive kick wouldn't work.
Agree:
Dash in with 3,3 or 3,4 should be fixed yes.
And bomb improvements.

I'm not some random...I've experimented with CSZ for a while after KL and just couldn't because of the bomb inputs. I do see your case but the armor on slide is definitely not needed with a teleport AND a dive kick to apply pressure. He can't have EVERYTHING fixed with him. Every character has their weaknesses.

 

[silva_777]

^is the armor NEEDED on reptile and sub? its only logic

 

[Altaire]

it really questions me the quality of players you guys play that this works on.

16 Bit's Kitana, actually.

Any opinions on it?

 

[CptXecution]

^is the armor NEEDED on reptile and sub? its only logic

Reptile no his force ball dash in pressure is all he needs to get in.
Sub-Zero YES sub isn't just a zoning character and has no way of getting in accept for a very unsafe slide.

 

[xTac]

I would have his better, and have the same properties as Cyrax and Human Sub Zero: a +1 advantage on hit.
Also for his to have a quicker recovery.

Because as of now, he can't poke against good poking players, and he can't parry as his parry will get beating out by good pokes, his getting buffed will fix allot of his major defensive issues.

Having his grant +1 advantage on hit with a quicker recovery for a dash won't be unfair or allow him to on reaction from this, it will just grant him to option pressure without always jumping, or being out poked on any close dash into pressure.

Yeah... that sounds good. On top of that... IMO i think he needs his D1 to be on par with the rest of the cast too. 10 frame D1 is just ridiculous.
I agree 100% on D4.
And i wouldnt mind D3 to change like you propose, but at this point, its his "best" one. So i would be happier if they fixed D1 and D4 first.

I also wanted to ask you these questions so there is at least some explaining ITT regarding his pokes, instead of just "buff this and buff that".

Cyber should be able to chain in Short and Long Dive kicks from , to give him a string to get in without jumping, and this will put together and finish off his rather odd juggle combos, this would still not be a safe option on block, as the short dive kick won't be safe on a crouching opponent, but using an Dive Kick will hit overhead on the last hit.

How is this a "get in" card? Would you mind explaining it ? Because as i see it, if you are in range to hit B2,4 you are already pretty close and at a range that other strings will hit as well.

I dont think its what you mean but are you saying link the dive kick into the string.... as in DK xx B2,4 ? Like you can combo out of sonyas dive kick ?

Cyber Sub Zero could really do with that way more than Human sub ever will, and again, THEY ARE THE EXACT SAME MOVES.

I dont see how CSZ would get more use out of an armored slide then reg sub. Care to elaborate on it please?

Oh... and they are not the EXACT same move... As far as i know, reg sub slide is even "less punishable" on block.( L-O-L illogical buffs )

 

[Altaire]

Blank post goes here. I don't know how I got a double post out of that.

 

[UsedForGlue]

Disagree:
Armor on slide is silly when he has a teleport (yes not a good one not most are) AND a dive kick to get in and apply pressure.
I do see your case but the armor on slide is definitely not needed with a teleport AND a dive kick to apply pressure. He can't have EVERYTHING fixed with him. Every character has their weaknesses.

You said your not a random and you have experimented with CSZ. Doesn't look like it to me.

 

[Altaire]

You said your not a random and you have experimented with CSZ. Doesn't look like it to me.

I actually have to agree that if Sub Zero is getting armor on his EX slide, there's really no reason Cyber Sub shouldn't. I don't even really see how Sub Zero needs it at this point, and the fact that he's keeping that but losing the intended duck state on his slide seems retarded to me.

Hell, I just heard fucking Reptile is getting armor on his EX slide, but Cyber Sub's isn't. I really hope I heard wrong.

 

[FixdSwine]

I actually have to agree that if Sub Zero is getting armor on his EX slide, there's really no reason Cyber Sub shouldn't. I don't even really see how Sub Zero needs it at this point, and the fact that he's keeping that but losing the intended duck state on his slide seems retarded to me.

Hell, I just heard fucking Reptile is getting armor on his EX slide, but Cyber Sub's isn't. I really hope I heard wrong.

No, no you didn't. Great he now has an Armored overhead and an armored low.

 

[silva_777]

Not only did you heard it you can see it in nrs office tourny stream.