Match-up Discussion Shazam Match-Up Discussion

[shinobispectre]

Doesn't matter what normals we wish he had. We have to work with what we have.

Edit: Sorry my replyearlier seemed more like a general discussion question. So please ignore it.

But yeah on your post still agreed. So in matchups with ranged lows does b2 work on avoiding them? I seem to find some success against avoiding Black Adam's Lightning Strike.

 

[Glass Sword]

Edit: Sorry my replyearlier seemed more like a general discussion question. So please ignore it.

But yeah on your post still agreed. So in matchups with ranged lows does b2 work on avoiding them? I seem to find some success against avoiding Black Adam's Lightning Strike.

No b2 has the worst hitbox of all time. It gets randomly stuffed by d1s it does not stand a chance against the likes Green Lantern's b1 or Aquaman's b2.

 

[shinobispectre]

No b2 has the worst hitbox of all time. It gets randomly stuffed by d1s it does not stand a chance against the likes Green Lantern's b1 or Aquaman's b2.

Aren't you Adamantium Sword yet? Amazing showing at Winter Brawl! And for b2...

 

[Barrogh]

Aren't you Adamantium Sword yet? Amazing showing at Winter Brawl! And for b2...

Considering his sig, he's probably shooting for diamond sword for now
Speaking of b2, well, looking at its properties one would think that being generally unsafe wasn't going the only drawback of it. Well...

 

[imblackjames]

I'm sure this was discussed before but i didn't really want to go through the whole thread. How do you guys deal with IAZod balls? Or a martian who keeps, placing an orb in front of them and zoning?

 

[shinobispectre]

I'm sure this was discussed before but i didn't really want to go through the whole thread. How do you guys deal with IAZod balls? Or a martian who keeps, placing an orb in front of them and zoning?

Never having faced a decent zoning Zod... Are those not duckable? Or does he have trait when doing that? If he doesn't... Teleport? No matter the speed of the zod ball teleports seems to work well... Same with martian orb. Since there isn't projectiles clashing that much... Throw a bolt to stop him zoning a little bit? I haven't seen effective zoning from Martian that doesn't use meter... Usually ground blast is the most annoying everything else I have managed to teleport through....

 

[Indecisive]

I'm sure this was discussed before but i didn't really want to go through the whole thread. How do you guys deal with IAZod balls? Or a martian who keeps, placing an orb in front of them and zoning?

Against Zod i teleport through the balls. Being careful based on the speed they are going at. With MMH i play the most patient game i can. Throw bolts from time to time. If i ever play REO on stream ill post it since its such a good game set. But you need to space everything perfectly. Even your Confirmed HM grabs.

 

[sirshyguy]

How does everybody approach the Superman MU? I think Shazam definitely has options, but I'm just curious about everybody's individual approaches to it.

 

[Indecisive]

How does everybody approach the Superman MU? I think Shazam definitely has options, but I'm just curious about everybody's individual approaches to it.

This MU. OMG. I play this with KDZ all the time. If he starts to zone you with Lasers you are actually able to teleport through them on reaction. But its somewhat hard to do that. Im still not able to do it consistently. If they keep up the same laser pattern then it will be easier to teleport through them. If he gets you in the corner you have a 2 frame window to d1 out of the f23 pressure. Also difficult to do. If the superman is smart they will not continue the pressure on you. After f23 Mid screen if they do not do it again you can reversal HM. If they go to do Superman punch after the f23 do an immediate torpedo to punish its slow start up. Your j2 is amazing so you should win Air to Airs just watch out for his air dash. If you back dash f23 punish it with Command Grab(he recovers faster than you think). Get your spacing down so you can HM him when he gets in. Watch his Meter. If he has bar and starts zoning dont try to jump at him or else you will get MB lasered in the face. Your down 1 is 6 frames and so is his so be careful about that. You can hit him out of his WU breathe and WU rising DP. Practice the timing for punishing them. If he does WU scoop just block and punish. He can punish B2 and b23. So Cancel B2 into Torpedo. im pretty sure your safe after that. Hope all this helps.

 

[HushoftheWind]

This MU. OMG. I play this with KDZ all the time. If he starts to zone you with Lasers you are actually able to teleport through them on reaction. But its somewhat hard to do that. Im still not able to do it consistently. If they keep up the same laser pattern then it will be easier to teleport through them. If he gets you in the corner you have a 2 frame window to d1 out of the f23 pressure. Also difficult to do. If the superman is smart they will not continue the pressure on you. After f23 Mid screen if they do not do it again you can reversal HM. If they go to do Superman punch after the f23 do an immediate torpedo to punish its slow start up. Your j2 is amazing so you should win Air to Airs just watch out for his air dash. If you back dash f23 punish it with Command Grab(he recovers faster than you think). Get your spacing down so you can HM him when he gets in. Watch his Meter. If he has bar and starts zoning dont try to jump at him or else you will get MB lasered in the face. Your down 1 is 6 frames and so is his so be careful about that. You can hit him out of his WU breathe and WU rising DP. Practice the timing for punishing them. If he does WU scoop just block and punish. He can punish B2 and b23. So Cancel B2 into Torpedo. im pretty sure your safe after that. Hope all this helps.

Good incite Indie. If any Shazam player was going to learn that match up to a science, i thought it would be you since you have KDZ to contend with on a regular basis.

 

[sirshyguy]

This MU. OMG. I play this with KDZ all the time. If he starts to zone you with Lasers you are actually able to teleport through them on reaction. But its somewhat hard to do that. Im still not able to do it consistently. If they keep up the same laser pattern then it will be easier to teleport through them. If he gets you in the corner you have a 2 frame window to d1 out of the f23 pressure. Also difficult to do. If the superman is smart they will not continue the pressure on you. After f23 Mid screen if they do not do it again you can reversal HM. If they go to do Superman punch after the f23 do an immediate torpedo to punish its slow start up. Your j2 is amazing so you should win Air to Airs just watch out for his air dash. If you back dash f23 punish it with Command Grab(he recovers faster than you think). Get your spacing down so you can HM him when he gets in. Watch his Meter. If he has bar and starts zoning dont try to jump at him or else you will get MB lasered in the face. Your down 1 is 6 frames and so is his so be careful about that. You can hit him out of his WU breathe and WU rising DP. Practice the timing for punishing them. If he does WU scoop just block and punish. He can punish B2 and b23. So Cancel B2 into Torpedo. im pretty sure your safe after that. Hope all this helps.

Good stuff. Did not know you could stuff his WU breath. I agree that spacing and patience is key (as it is for Shazam in most of his matchups). Once the Shazam player gets antsy and starts trying to recklessly rush in, Supes has already won.

 

[Indecisive]

Good incite Indie. If any Shazam player was going to learn that match up to a science, i thought it would be you since you have KDZ to contend with on a regular basis.

Thank you very much. I get to play KDZ every Monday now Thanks to Jonnitti. So we all have a casual session now. So i play KDZ for hours. Getting better at my spacing game. Need to ask him for more games with his Superman since he has been playing WW against me a lot. Also i forgot to mention if you are playing a superman that knows the MU he will not let you out of the corner. So be careful of your WU teleports when you are in the corner. KDZ never lets me out anymore since he knows how to punish WU teleport now.

Good stuff. Did not know you could stuff his WU breath. I agree that spacing and patience is key (as it is for Shazam in most of his matchups). Once the Shazam player gets antsy and starts trying to recklessly rush in, Supes has already won.

The timing to stuff it is interesting. i still dont know it yet myself. Practice it. ALSO Important info. WU Breath and WU Flying Dp are reverse motions. So if you try to cross up a Superman player and they try to do WU rising DP they can get WU breathe instead and Vise Versa. Also it depends on the Player. I am reckless against people who do not understand the MU at all and just go ham. But players that know what they are doing i play more safe since i have too.

 

[shinobispectre]

So i play KDZ for hours. Getting better at my spacing game. Need to ask him for more games with his Superman since he has been playing WW against me a lot.

When you have time. What are your thoughts on the Wonder Woman matchup? I feel more successful forcing her to come to me and playing more patiently a style you seem to like as well. Has that worked for you? I have only seen one match with your Shazam against his Wonder Woman, I think it was at the latest break.

 

[Indecisive]

When you have time. What are your thoughts on the Wonder Woman matchup? I feel more successful forcing her to come to me and playing more patiently a style you seem to like as well. Has that worked for you? I have only seen one match with your Shazam against his Wonder Woman, I think it was at the latest break.

Cries in a corner. The issue is the reach of his whip is a pain. And KDZ actually throws the Crown at people. She is able to dash and catch you if you try to teleport away. In the corner she has a lot of plus strings. And its hard to get out. She can punish a lot of torpedo ranges. You have to take some chances when playing against WW.

 

[Indecisive]

Sup so i need to ask this. What does everyone think the Green Lantern-Shazam MU is.
After playing many games against King James. Who is a solid lantern i have to ask what the fuck do we do in this MU. I really have come down to the wire on what do we do. His B1 stuffs out our B2. He can full combo punish b2 and b23. be can punish b2 torpedo at pretty much any range. We get nothing after back Dashing his b13. I tested it today and we get nothing. Minigun keeps us out. Instant air Shots keeps us out and pushes him back. rockets push us back. His WU Game comes down to a guess. If we get in. If we throw bolts at jump Shots he can delay and change his air movement. And then we trade and his does more damage, if we teleport through shots and he is firing another one we have to block. If we teleport too close he punishes with b1. Or lift. If we WU he can stick a shot on us and punish with MB shot. So i ask how is this a 6-4 Lantern from what people have told me. Im thinking this may be one of our worst MU's at 7-3 lantern. Give me suggestions and hints on how to win this. ALSO. Zoning doesnt actually do much unless you get the life lead. But if you get with one MB Shot it closes out the life lead since it does 18% on hit. I have been told Run away but that doesnt actually win you the game. Unless you have a huge life lead. The games i have won against Green lanterns i have had to work my Ass off and make basically no mistakes at all. And i still struggle. So assistance would be appreciated. Thank you.

 

[Heroic_Legacy]

WW I don't think is super oppressive. You have a great backdash in that matchup. I just try to stay under her when she jumps. If she doesn't jump I just fish for a knockdown any way I can. Her wakeups are meh so you should be able to run back a lifebar effectively.

GL is super difficult. Super super difficult, his damage and b13 and minigun are insanity. Just don't play Shazam if at all possible. Pretty much nothing you can do will ever get you in. Why is Oa's Rocket throw immune? Best you can do is hope they get bored of doing b13 minigun and do b13 missiles so you get a punish. Wakeup teleport does nothing. This matchup is practically nonexistant.

NW GA GL are just super ridiculously tough matchups that I feel Shazam struggles with the most. But all it takes is two right guesses per round and you're golden.

 

[Indecisive]

WW I don't think is super oppressive. You have a great backdash in that matchup. I just try to stay under her when she jumps. If she doesn't jump I just fish for a knockdown any way I can. Her wakeups are meh so you should be able to run back a lifebar effectively.

GL is super difficult. Super super difficult, his damage and b13 and minigun are insanity. Just don't play Shazam if at all possible. Pretty much nothing you can do will ever get you in. Why is Oa's Rocket throw immune? Best you can do is hope they get bored of doing b13 minigun and do b13 missiles so you get a punish. Wakeup teleport does nothing. This matchup is practically nonexistant.

NW GA GL are just super ridiculously tough matchups that I feel Shazam struggles with the most. But all it takes is two right guesses per round and you're golden.

Thank you Heroic Legacy.

 

[imblackjames]

Idk id anyone knows this but you can stuff ALL of black adams wake ups (after a hdk) using b2,3 midscreen or in the corner

Edit: except super

 

[Indecisive]

Idk id anyone knows this but you can stuff ALL of black adams wake ups (after a hdk) using b2,3 midscreen or in the corner

Edit: except super

I knew this but the timing for Cage is derpy as fuck. Basically the B2 Gets ignored but the 3 comes out too fast and the start up is too slow on the WU cage. His other WUs have no WU Invincibility. Also Shazam is one of the Character that cannot just Neutral jump Cage if they do it on WU. Kinda sucks

 

[Peckapowa]

Against Zod i teleport through the balls. Being careful based on the speed they are going at. With MMH i play the most patient game i can. Throw bolts from time to time. If i ever play REO on stream ill post it since its such a good game set. But you need to space everything perfectly. Even your Confirmed HM grabs.

i believe if they are instant air slow balls shazam cannot teleport through without being punished, if they are ground balls i can mb laser on reaction to teleport for punish, just throwing options

 

[Sneak]

Sup so i need to ask this. What does everyone think the Green Lantern-Shazam MU is.
After playing many games against King James. Who is a solid lantern i have to ask what the fuck do we do in this MU. I really have come down to the wire on what do we do. His B1 stuffs out our B2. He can full combo punish b2 and b23. be can punish b2 torpedo at pretty much any range. We get nothing after back Dashing his b13. I tested it today and we get nothing. Minigun keeps us out. Instant air Shots keeps us out and pushes him back. rockets push us back. His WU Game comes down to a guess. If we get in. If we throw bolts at jump Shots he can delay and change his air movement. And then we trade and his does more damage, if we teleport through shots and he is firing another one we have to block. If we teleport too close he punishes with b1. Or lift. If we WU he can stick a shot on us and punish with MB shot. So i ask how is this a 6-4 Lantern from what people have told me. Im thinking this may be one of our worst MU's at 7-3 lantern. Give me suggestions and hints on how to win this. ALSO. Zoning doesnt actually do much unless you get the life lead. But if you get with one MB Shot it closes out the life lead since it does 18% on hit. I have been told Run away but that doesnt actually win you the game. Unless you have a huge life lead. The games i have won against Green lanterns i have had to work my Ass off and make basically no mistakes at all. And i still struggle. So assistance would be appreciated. Thank you.

I saw digit use the run away tactic vs Gross and it worked a lot better than I thought it would as he 2-0ed him. He also did a lot of MB lighting shots and it caught Gross out of a lot of jump missiles as well.

 

[Indecisive]

I saw digit use the run away tactic vs Gross and it worked a lot better than I thought it would as he 2-0ed him. He also did a lot of MB lighting shots and it caught Gross out of a lot of jump missiles as well.

Gross didnt know the MU. And he didnt know how to do consitant instant air shots. The run away works if you have the life lead but if you mess up once you lose the lead real easy

 

[shinobispectre]

So was able to play some more. Atlas Torpedo seemed to avoid a lot of stuff! I felt I consistently caught Green Arrow's Ground blast thing but haven't faced against the meter burn version one. Green Arrow's slide blew through it though, I think. Cyborg's missiles were a joke if the player was in Atlas Torpedo range, well more of a joke than usual. Cyborg's blasts were still a pain to deal with. Joker's gunshot was easy to avoid if they let the shot go as Shazam crouches for the torpedo, but if they hold it they could hit me during torpedo. Of course Torpedo avoided the usual armored moves like Walking Corpse from Grundy or armored b/f3 etc, love using it for that. Not sure if it catches Green Lantern's missiles, the one that come at an angle not the actual projectile. There is also the usual Torpedo oki shenanigans. But what do you guys think? Atlas Torpedo actually avoids them or they were just poorly timed?

 

[Indecisive]

So was able to play some more. Atlas Torpedo seemed to avoid a lot of stuff! I felt I consistently caught Green Arrow's Ground blast thing but haven't faced against the meter burn version one. Green Arrow's slide blew through it though, I think. Cyborg's missiles were a joke if the player was in Atlas Torpedo range, well more of a joke than usual. Cyborg's blasts were still a pain to deal with. Joker's gunshot was easy to avoid if they let the shot go as Shazam crouches for the torpedo, but if they hold it they could hit me during torpedo. Of course Torpedo avoided the usual armored moves like Walking Corpse from Grundy or armored b/f3 etc, love using it for that. Not sure if it catches Green Lantern's missiles, the one that come at an angle not the actual projectile. There is also the usual Torpedo oki shenanigans. But what do you guys think? Atlas Torpedo actually avoids them or they were just poorly timed?

Torpedo avoids a lot of stuff. It goes over Lex's Mine, Under Jokers Gun. The torpdeo goes past the Arrow Ground shot only at certain times. You need to know the are going to do it for the most part. Could be wrong there. Cyborg is hard if they have consistent Nova blast and instant air nova blasts. Sometimes grundy can grab you out of Torpedo but its hard to it to occur. torpedo usually goes through it. And you should be able to torpedo past the Missiles but if he meter burns it then i think the Homing one will smack you in the facce.

 

[EGP Wonder_Chef]

And you should be able to torpedo past the Missiles but if he meter burns it then i think the Homing one will smack you in the facce.

GL doesn't have any homing rocket.