Match-up Discussion Shazam Match-Up Discussion

[RNLDRGN]

The match up is ass. I've played the best wonder chef in the world, shazam. Shit is 6-4 Ducky. Raven is the best Ducky player I've seen.

LOL

 

[Indecisive]

Play @Blind_Man aka Chemical Venom on psn and let me know how you do, then I'll take your word for it. One mistake anywhere on screen and it's 40+% gone. He is the one and only Raven to play. Real talk.

To be fair. Online Raven is the most bullshit thing in the history of anything.

 

[Blind_Ducky]

To be fair. Online Raven is the most bullshit thing in the history of anything.

And offline Raven is even worse.

 

[Indecisive]

And offline Raven is even worse.

I was waiting for a sort of response. And my counter arguement is. Nothing. I have nothing to say.

 

[shinobispectre]

Moving on. Has anyone found his AT to avoid certain projectiles? Sometimes I find when facing Joker I avoid his Revolver somehow...

What do you guys do in the unblockable moves? Like Ares Smash or Doomsday falling sky thing?

 

[Indecisive]

Moving on. Has anyone found his AT to avoid certain projectiles? Sometimes I find when facing Joker I avoid his Revolver somehow...

What do you guys do in the unblockable moves? Like Ares Smash or Doomsday falling sky thing?

I think thats cause Torpedo is going under his high shot. His torpedo as goes over Lex's Mine. And to deal with smash you can probably just teleport way and doomsday just dash.

 

[shinobispectre]

Cool. I can't decide if this is a general gameplay question or not. But what are characters on blocked b1? I can't seem to punish except Catwomen who spam the move. Even then it's with a throw atm.

 

[Indecisive]

Cool. I can't decide if this is a general gameplay question or not. But what are characters on blocked b1? I can't seem to punish except Catwomen who spam the move. Even then it's with a throw atm.

It depends on the character. Every Character has a different sort of D1. Like Black Adam has a D1 that has a 6 frame Start up but its -1 On Block. Shazam has a D1 that is also about 6 frames but is +2 on Block.

 

[shinobispectre]

SHmmm general gameplay question then. Time to look up some frames. Okay so Shazam is not magically becoming mid-tier anytime soon. What characters if any do you guys use to cover match ups you don't feel like dealing with? I'm starting to learn Black Adam granted more to have a Marvel Family team rather than cover my match ups haha.

 

[Indecisive]

SHmmm general gameplay question then. Time to look up some frames. Okay so Shazam is not magically becoming mid-tier anytime soon. What characters if any do you guys use to cover match ups you don't feel like dealing with? I'm starting to learn Black Adam granted more to have a Marvel Family team rather than cover my match ups haha.

I'm Learning Zatanna to deal with MU's that i don't want to deal with. These would include things like Green Arrow, Raven, Cyborg, And Maybe Sinestro. Im also trying to learn another Character as well.

 

[shinobispectre]

Oooo I love magic based characters! I really do want to learn Zatanna but want to really invest in Shazam and Black Adam first haha. Good luck to you.

Speaking of Sinestro. Keeping in mind that I play primarily online. What responses do people have to his Claw thingy wake up? On wakeup I generally grab people. And I feel that once I grabbed someone out of doing it... Was that lag gimmick or do grabs go through stuff?

 

[Indecisive]

Oooo I love magic based characters! I really do want to learn Zatanna but want to really invest in Shazam and Black Adam first haha. Good luck to you.

Speaking of Sinestro. Keeping in mind that I play primarily online. What responses do people have to his Claw thingy wake up? On wakeup I generally grab people. And I feel that once I grabbed someone out of doing it... Was that lag gimmick or do grabs go through stuff?

Block it then punish it. Its a true WU so if you try to Command Grab and they do it you will be punished. If you Grab them out of it then they probably mistimed the WU.

 

[shinobispectre]

What's the Catwoman matchup like for you guys? Most of the Catwomen I play can't seem to utilize her much outside of using b1 a lot. Or that dash claw move she has which annoys me to no end.

 

[shinobispectre]

Right so disclaimer: I am not a tournament player, while I would love to go to locals and be a part of the scene, college and lack of knowledge of local areas prevent me from doing so. So therefore most of my experience comes from online and while Injustice online is serviceable (at times) it does not hold a candle to the game that Injustice is offline. So do take what I say with a grain of salt as I may not be playing/facing the styles offline players will encounter. That said I love Captain Marvel and want to add what I can to the forums...

Further disclaimer: The Hawkgirl matchup is bullshit, I'm talking cartoon Texas, wild untamed west frontier bullshit. Explore counterpicks or your secondaries. Hell, pick instawin Supes to save yourself the frustration. As for me, I'm an idiot with a blind love for Captain Marvel. So if by chance you do pick Shazam...

Pick a favorable stage. My best result was with Ferris Hanger, don't give two shits what people say. Interactables are in the game so use them. For Hawkgirl aim for one with plenty of stuff to throw to blow up her generic approaches (because as decent as they are, they are simple and as one track as a slot car) preferrable one in the corner and respawns for your use.

EX: After a combo ending with MB Torpedo I ended up in the corner in the Batcave and Ferris aircraft. Both Batcar missiles and aircraft missile dealt that extra damage that seemed to blow up her wakeup. Turbine was especially fun to use at times as well. Time them to catch her out of the invincibility of her wakeup moves.

After playing a Hawkgirl online for practically 20 matches or so, I almost threw in the towel. Haha her mace charge is so annoying. But from what I can tell...

Mace Charge: Watch the range she does it at, Far range B2,1 is a weird punish. By this I mean it sometimes catches people for the first few times... but that's if they are being reckless and don't expect the punish. If for whatever reason Hawk does it up front, reversal HM. Not sure on MB Charge but it's what worked for me. A wakeup mace charge is trickier. Sometimes you can jump over and a j2 will hit her out of it, but mostly you'll just get hit. I found that a properly timed Torpedo caught her in the startup. IDK for sure what it was but hey it worked so I'm not complaining. The real easy way out I feel is a meter burned b3. However keep in mind that MB Mace Charge blows that up so watch her meter bar as well as yours. What I also found is that his weird Teleport property works here as well. So if you can time it, teleport through it. Don't know about punishment yet... working on that.

Flight: Watch what the Hawk does in flight. The few that I've fought that used her above average, used her divekick a lot. While it may seem hard to reach her. J1 worked wonders for me. Just be patient and watch what she does. If she doesn't have meter or does not use her Mace throw MB, meter burn B3 to catch the Dive. If you can position the 3 part of B23 seems to catch her a lot. But B23 is a bad habit to get into so I digress.

j D2: Fuck this moves chip and advantage seriously. Meter burn B3. If you can properly use it, time Shazam's D2 to hit her as I caught her a few times. Try backdashing if you can to make her whiff and then punish her for it. Not sure on whiff recovery for the move, but on block the Hawk's I've fought Mace Charged right after so be wary of that.

Mace Throw: Seriously the one I fought rarely used this outside of MB. However whiff punish it hard. It's high so you can duck the ground one, so duck then Torpedo provided Hawk does not have meter. If the Hawk is in the air just dash it, it's pathetically slow. Just keep in mind, Hawk's position for the punish after you avoid that laughable mace projectile.

Notes: Hawk's super is overhead, not a throw and/or regular hit. It's half decent unlike the garbage that is Shazam's. I believe it also leaves her airborne so think Superman but overhead I guess.

Strings: I rarely see these used but if they even start a string for some reason at a distance, torpedo them. MB if you can to put you near a throwable interactable. I can't say much as I don't have much experience with them. I want to think they are backdashable but I don't know for sure. Block high for the most part, her lows chain are telegraphed and most of her strings generally start or the 2nd hit will be Overhead save for one 2nd hit which is the low chain. Punish gaps if you can with HM or just sweep her.

 

[Li1mightymouse]

It seems my worse match ups I have are against Flash and Zatanna. How would one approach these match ups with out getting blown up?

 

[KIllaByte]

It seems my worse match ups I have are against Flash and Zatanna. How would one approach these match ups with out getting blown up?

Zatanna teleports on wakeup very, very frequently. She can go forward or backward.
Secure a hard knockdown, (usually off of Atlas Torpedo Meterbrurn, on its own or as a combo-endeer--
then 50-50 guess which way she'll choose to teleport.
Both of Shazam's Dashes have so much range, that you'll end up right next to Zatanna, who you can then do a grab mixup on.

My most played matchup is against the Flash. His wakeup pressure is a non-issue because of our 50-50 teleport option, or even wakeup herculean might.
Flash also cannot punish Atlas torpedo when it's done from a close range. When trading pokes with him, you can use your D1 into Atlas torpedo to stay at a close, but safe range, and then eventually change from D1 Atlas torpedo to D2 cancelled into Herculean Might-- a frame trap that will launch him for a combo.

Also, get offensive momentum against him on knockdown. His only 100% invincible wakeup is rising uppercut, and that's only one hit. Can be armored through, and is also not safe on block, I think-- at least gives you time to do a D2 grab mixup.
His Meterburned headbutt charge has huge range, and needs to be meterburned to break armor-- and is also punished by Shazam after duck-blocking it.
Crossups on Flashes wakeup mess him up bad.

You can reverse his inputs, then punish their foolishness as they don't know what their buttons are doing. You can manage knockdown momentum on Flash quite well.
Also, Flash can't really do a thing to Back _ 2 Elbow of Shazam's on reaction, as no one can enter the neceessary inout fast enough. You can make B2 safe by cancelling into Atlas torpedo, or play mixhup mind games by doing B2, teleport in eitehr direction.
B2 forward teleport is risky, but gets you in range for a lot of your normals-- like the 2, 2 string-- which you can do 50-50 grab mixups off of if you land the second hit, which is all that hits at the blocked b2, xx forward teleport range.

I have The Flash MU as 5-5 right now, but I also think it could eventually reach Shazam's favor.
Zatanna is tough. 3.5-6.5, honestly. Could be worse.

 

[Glass Sword]

I've been training my secondary Shazam and I have a question. What do you do about Catwomen's b3 it causes every string except f223 whiff which gets stuffed by mb b3. I can't grab her either. If she gets scared up close or even mid range mb b3 beats everything. The only thing I can do is Atlas Tornado which she punishes with her overhead. Also I end up at a space where d1 whiffs and her connects and both her mixups. Then I have to back dash which will get stuffed on a read. I just can't seems to hit the cat even on a read I can't whiff punish her because her recovery animation leaves her so low to the ground.

 

[KIllaByte]

I've been training my secondary Shazam and I have a question. What do you do about Catwomen's b3 it causes every string except f223 whiff which gets stuffed by mb b3. I can't grab her either. If she gets scared up close or even mid range mb b3 beats everything. The only thing I can do is Atlas Tornado which she punishes with her overhead. Also I end up at a space where d1 whiffs and her connects and both her mixups. Then I have to back dash which will get stuffed on a read. I just can't seems to hit the cat even on a read I can't whiff punish her because her recovery animation leaves her so low to the ground.

Does she punish Atlas Torpedo when when you do it from a close distance?

 

[Indecisive]

I've been training my secondary Shazam and I have a question. What do you do about Catwomen's b3 it causes every string except f223 whiff which gets stuffed by mb b3. I can't grab her either. If she gets scared up close or even mid range mb b3 beats everything. The only thing I can do is Atlas Tornado which she punishes with her overhead. Also I end up at a space where d1 whiffs and her connects and both her mixups. Then I have to back dash which will get stuffed on a read. I just can't seems to hit the cat even on a read I can't whiff punish her because her recovery animation leaves her so low to the ground.

I have only played this MU a few times. But it wasnt against a great CW sadly. In this MU i like to Zone a bit. teleport away, Throw Bolts etc. If the issue is raw MB B3's or MB B3 to punish you then you may have to play more safe. If you want something with Good distance. His f1 although its a high has good reach and then goes into an OH string. Her whip makes air to airs pretty much not a thing. so you need to play the ground game. Watch out for Yolo MB Catdash. We have the ability to get out of pressure cause of WU telelport which is amazing. Also i think she is able to punish a close torpedo if she times it perfectly. Which sucks. So the entire match is basically you trying to space out your command grabs since they are pretty decent range now. Also your D1 is 6 Frames and +2 on Block abuse it.

 

[Glass Sword]

I have only played this MU a few times. But it wasnt against a great CW sadly. In this MU i like to Zone a bit. teleport away, Throw Bolts etc. If the issue is raw MB B3's or MB B3 to punish you then you may have to play more safe. If you want something with Good distance. His f1 although its a high has good reach and then goes into an OH string. Her whip makes air to airs pretty much not a thing. so you need to play the ground game. Watch out for Yolo MB Catdash. We have the ability to get out of pressure cause of WU telelport which is amazing. Also i think she is able to punish a close torpedo if she times it perfectly. Which sucks. So the entire match is basically you trying to space out your command grabs since they are pretty decent range now. Also your D1 is 6 Frames and +2 on Block abuse it.

The problem is unless you mb f3 she can just throw out b3s with little repercussions. In at the end of pressure strings she can b3 or d1 catclaws. d1 whiffs if she does b3 and you can't jump away safely. She can just crank up b3s and let them rip whenever. EVERYTHING whiffs even overheads when she is closest to the ground I have gone over her with tornado before. Her defense game is outrageous when she has the life lead. Zoning does not secure the life lead that well either cause in b3 range she can b3 in. Even if you are blocked your options are limited because of the spacing and you can't hit her if she cranks another b3 up.

 

[Indecisive]

The problem is unless you mb f3 she can just throw out b3s with little repercussions. In at the end of pressure strings she can b3 or d1 catclaws. d1 whiffs if she does b3 and you can't jump away safely. She can just crank up b3s and let them rip whenever. EVERYTHING whiffs even overheads when she is closest to the ground I have gone over her with tornado before. Her defense game is outrageous when she has the life lead. Zoning does not secure the life lead that well either cause in b3 range she can b3 in. Even if you are blocked your options are limited because of the spacing and you can't hit her if she cranks another b3 up.

Hmmmmmm. This is something i will have to Test at FR. Ill play the MU with 16 Bit if given the Chance. And we will see how it goes. Sounds interesting.

 

[Heroic_Legacy]

...Also I end up at a space where d1 whiffs and her connects and both her mixups.

That's also the range where b23 whiffs, which is coincidentally Shazam's worst range. You'll be in that space a lot against better characters. Your grabs will hit there at least. So will d2 and d3. You can try doing d2 or d1 cancel into 50/50 grab and being a shitty Bane. Otherwise you're pretty much just hoping they jump or back up.

Bad news:

-Can't throw bolts when she has a bar.
-Torpedo always gets punished with at least 11 cat claws.
-Air to air isn't a thing. You have to face her on the ground.
-Her b3 beats everything you do.
-d3 gets d1 cat clawed on block free.

The good thing is, you're Shazam and you can knock her down and get rid of a lifebar in 2 guesses.
You're Shazam, you can wake up a majority of the time and she can only guess and put you in pressure.
She has crap AAs so you can jump in on her. Too bad you're Shazam and you can't jail into things that are meaningful on block.

 

[Glass Sword]

That's also the range where b23 whiffs, which is coincidentally Shazam's worst range. You'll be in that space a lot against better characters. Your grabs will hit there at least. So will d2 and d3. You can try doing d2 or d1 cancel into 50/50 grab and being a shitty Bane. Otherwise you're pretty much just hoping they jump or back up.

Bad news:

-Can't throw bolts when she has a bar.
-Torpedo always gets punished with at least 11 cat claws.
-Air to air isn't a thing. You have to face her on the ground.
-Her b3 beats everything you do.
-d3 gets d1 cat clawed on block free.

The good thing is, you're Shazam and you can knock her down and get rid of a lifebar in 2 guesses.
You're Shazam, you can wake up a majority of the time and she can only guess and put you in pressure.
She has crap AAs so you can jump in on her. Too bad you're Shazam and you can't jail into things that are meaningful on block.

Yeah it felt bad. At least I understood why it is bad. You can go for a mixup off jump 2. Jump 2 sweep or jump 2 command grab or b2 (that might whiff however. The struggle is super real with this character. He really would benefit from better normals.

 

[shinobispectre]

Yeah it felt bad. At least I understood why it is bad. You can go for a mixup off jump 2. Jump 2 sweep or jump 2 command grab or b2 (that might whiff however. The struggle is super real with this character. He really would benefit from better normals.

Any recommendations? I struggle to understand the footsie game at times. I wish he a low starter instead of B123 ending with one. I wish F2 was faster, it feel so laggy in animation. No real oomph to it.

 

[Heroic_Legacy]

Doesn't matter what normals we wish he had. We have to work with what we have.