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YOMI LIVING MATCH UP CHART (FIRST DRAFT) v1.0 - 7-2-15 Tremor Patch

KH_Seraph

KH_Seraph

ҜømbÄŦ Ħøu&Ŧøπ
There are some inconsistencies but for the most part it seems to be a pretty honest tier list. I agree with FF Liu/Sorc Quan being in favor of Liu.

Surprised by the Tremor results.
 
SaSSolino

SaSSolino

Soul Stealing Loyalist
KH_Seraph said:
There are some inconsistencies but for the most part it seems to be a pretty honest tier list. I agree with FF Liu/Sorc Quan being in favor of Liu.

Surprised by the Tremor results.
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liu kang can crew armor super fast and a blocked fbf4 can put quan out of his spells, it is bad for quan.
 
VSchweiga

VSchweiga

Noob
DrManhattan said:
Wow. I hope everyone takes this with a grain of salt. How can one scene know match-ups for every single character in the game? Do you have the highest possible level vs the highest possible level of play for all these characters?

I really hope everyone does not take this as gospel. I see some horrendous numbers in that chart. Hish-qu-ten going even with bone shaper? (biggest inaccuracy in the chart) Theory fighting at its finest and that is all it is.

Game is not even 5 months old.
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yea its 6 months old
 
infamy23

infamy23

FireBeard
Disagree with some of those Raiden matchups.

Kuatan Goro / Relentless Jason are 5-5. I play these a lot offline.

Raiden does not lose to Shinnok. Meterless Hell Sparks is punishable at any distance, and even if he burns a bar, it's punishable if I block the 3rd hit.

Shinnok also does not have a good enough wakeup game to beat Raiden 6-4. Once he's in the corner his lifebar can instantly disappear and both of his armors are easily punishable. That match is 5-5

I do feel that Johnny is my worst matchup though so I agree on that one.
 
Pan1cMode

Pan1cMode

AUS FGC represent!
Jacqui:

Liu Kang is 2-8, this matchup is much worse than Quan Chi.

Ermac is 5-5 not 4-6, as is Johnny Cage. She doesn't lose these MUs.


I feel she actually beats Kung Jin Bojutsu believe it or not and goes even/maybe loses slightly to Shaolin.

Tremor is bad, potentially 3-7 bad. Cassie is also similarly bad.
 
Asodimazze

Asodimazze

https://twitter.com/AlfioZacco
Who made the A-List matchup chart? It's far what I think.

Yomi opinion / A-list player opinion

Hollywood : 5-5 / 4-6
D'vorah : 5-5 / 4-6
Ermac : 5-5 / 4-6
Kitana: 5-5 / 4-6
Jaquie: 6-4 / 5-5
Kung Lao: 5-5 / 3-7, maybe 4-6
Liu Kang (flame fist): 5-5 / 4-6
Liu Kang (dragon fire): 5-5 / 3-7
Mileena : 6-4 / 4-6
Predator Hunter: 4-6 / 5-5, maybe 6-4
Raiden : 6-4 / 5-5
Sub-Zero : 4-6 / 3-7
Tanya : 5-5 / 3-7
Tremor : 5-5 / 6-4
Kano (cyber) : 5-5 / 4-6
 
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smokey

smokey

EX Ovi should launch
A-List has 4/6 against the following characters supposedly: Hunter/HQT predator, Quan (Sorcerer), Shinnok, Sub Zero, Tremor and Kenshi Balanced.
I agree with Hunter, Sub, Shinnok (Boner)
I cant comment on HQT or Tremor, as nobody i know has played them properly against me.
I dont agree with Quan in any variation, he cant get pokes out in most of your advantage situations, and he cant armour on wakeup. Using forceball blockstrings and tick throws to buy back stamina mean Quan cant move without making ballsy calls, you dont even need to nutpunch him so I dont think cage loses this. If its 5/5 then its a hard one for Quan. Good stamina play and positioning against Kenshi put him on the back foot fairly quickly, his neutral game has to be played without flurry or im in and its bad news.

All the 5/5's for cage are cool, mindgames off nearly every string mean you can play any matchup your own way and turn it into advantage with reads. Not taking anything away from the rest of the cast but cage has more mixups than most, even without low starters.

Jaqui and goro are pretty standard, goros able to blow through a lot with punchwalk but generally thats all he does, I agree on that being a 6/4.
Mileena i would say is a 5/5 because she can go piercing and low sai the shit out of us. Everything being unsafe is a bit of a problem for her, but she can roll any frame trap that you fuck up a cancel by a few frames.
Ferrator + Jason are a very very high 6/4 imo. They cant duck 114 so you can be + on block without stamina while doing chip. Never seen it discussed on tym so it might not be common knowledge but shadowkick is throw immune and you can use it as a reversal to blow up tick throws, or just run up and charge it in their face on wakeup. The command throws whiff if you are holding a shadowkick and you can run cancel into a full combo. Its legit!
Would love an explanation on 6/4 Raiden and Jax though, Thunder god is pretty hard for Cage as he builds a lot of meter, puts you in the corner, but mainly because he can convert so much damage from his armoured reversal and leave you standing in the corner. Jax has great options to nearly everything you want to do, he can contest a lot of pressure and convert well off everything, he doesnt let you in and has scary mixups on his offense. @YOMI MITYEAP
 
Paul the Octopus

Paul the Octopus

Slow Starter
YOMI MITYEAP said:
I understand her matchups fairly well but I need more xp tbh
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If you change the numbers from the "6/4" / "5/5" format to a "6" or a "4" you can just do a formula at the end of the rows to add them all up automatically. just type in "sum=" and select it all. That way you don't need to keep adding this up. Google docs is reading the current numbers as dates so you can't do this. Just decide whether the number refers to the row or the column. And if you only fill out one half of the matrix (the other half is a mirror image anyway) you'll save yourself a bunch of work.

I haven't read the entire thread yet so sorry if this was already said.
 
infamy23

infamy23

FireBeard
smokey said:
Thunder god is pretty hard for Cage as he builds a lot of meter, puts you in the corner, but mainly because he can convert so much damage from his armoured reversal and leave you standing in the corner. @YOMI MITYEAP
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You are describing things that Raiden does to every character, none of that is specific to Johnny. By that logic, Raiden beats everyone.
 
smokey

smokey

EX Ovi should launch
infamy23 said:
You are describing things that Raiden does to every character, none of that is specific to Johnny. By that logic, Raiden beats everyone.
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Maybe my rundown of raiden was not specific to Johnny but when its applied it reflects heavily on the matchup. Cage is a risky character and thrives on respect. Characters that get fuck all from their reversals are less risk for cage to frame trap when they have bar, so they wont be as tempted to throw their bar away for a frame trap. Raidens meter reversals have to be baited or you risk losing 40% and when hes on the offence he doesnt need to use bar, and can keep building it for reversals. Against Lao's frame trap with MB hat he cant armour out and needs to be respected, opening up Lao's offense. This isnt the defining factor in the matchup as Kung Laos mobility and neutral game trump raiden somewhat, but when frame traps are all you have it becomes a big factor. I never said that I think raiden beats everyone, but i would like some yomi word on why he loses to cage.
 
infamy23

infamy23

FireBeard
smokey said:
Maybe my rundown of raiden was not specific to Johnny but when its applied it reflects heavily on the matchup. Cage is a risky character and thrives on respect. Characters that get fuck all from their reversals are less risk for cage to frame trap when they have bar, so they wont be as tempted to throw their bar away for a frame trap. Raidens meter reversals have to be baited or you risk losing 40% and when hes on the offence he doesnt need to use bar, and can keep building it for reversals. Against Lao's frame trap with MB hat he cant armour out and needs to be respected, opening up Lao's offense. This isnt the defining factor in the matchup as Kung Laos mobility and neutral game trump raiden somewhat, but when frame traps are all you have it becomes a big factor. I never said that I think raiden beats everyone, but i would like some yomi word on why he loses to cage.
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That would make sense if my reversals were safe. But they are not.

If I choose to EX shocker through a frame trap, I run the risk of being low profiled and then punished, or blocked and then punished. The risk / reward is even on both sides.

Btw EX shocker leads to 32% max, not 40%, don't exaggerate, Raiden is not Ermac. In fact, most of the time Raiden is going to go for EXdb3 because it doesn't get low profiled as easily, and that only leads to 24% for 1 bar which let's be honest is not very good damage wise.

Your d4 dominates Raiden in neutral, it's difficult for me to even touch you without committing to a hard read because that button beats everything I do and if it hits me I'm -22. If all I'm doing is building meter on you for reversals then I've already lost the game. I'd rather be hitting you, not building meter with blocked lightning strings.

Kenshi gets 33% from a reversal/wakeup EX db1 but that match is still 6-4 for Raiden because he's putting his health bar on the line every time he goes for it. It's the same thing for Raiden against Johnny.
 
smokey

smokey

EX Ovi should launch
infamy23 said:
That would make sense if my reversals were safe. But they are not.

If I choose to EX shocker through a frame trap, I run the risk of being low profiled and then punished, or blocked and then punished. The risk / reward is even on both sides.

Btw EX shocker leads to 32% max, not 40%, don't exaggerate, Raiden is not Ermac. In fact, most of the time Raiden is going to go for EXdb3 because it doesn't get low profiled as easily, and that only leads to 24% for 1 bar which let's be honest is not very good damage wise.

Your d4 dominates Raiden in neutral, it's difficult for me to even touch you without committing to a hard read because that button beats everything I do and if it hits me I'm -22. If all I'm doing is building meter on you for reversals then I've already lost the game. I'd rather be hitting you, not building meter with blocked lightning strings.

Kenshi gets 33% from a reversal/wakeup EX db1 but that match is still 6-4 for Raiden because he's putting his health bar on the line every time he goes for it. It's the same thing for Raiden against Johnny.
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Im not saying raiden wins or loses, i want a good reason on why its 6-4 from the guys that wrote the tier list. The risk reward is even on both sides I agree, but against like Dvorah where her escape option isnt a combo im not really too bothered if she wants to use her bars to get me off her. Launching armour is a big pain for cage because im not opening you up with h/l guessing, i have to know (read) what you are going to do and answer appropriately. D4 is a good tool to start offense with a blockstring and potentially a throw, the answer you have to that blockstring is to launch me with your armour, and the yomi levels start to build up from there. I dont disagree with anything you have said, i just dont think that its a 6-4.

"Kenshi gets 33% from a reversal/wakeup EX db1 but that match is still 6-4 for Raiden because he's putting his health bar on the line every time he goes for it. It's the same thing for Raiden against Johnny" Its not a 6-4 because raiden can punish a punishable move.
 
D

Death

Noob
Shinnok is fine. You guys saying hes broken is ridiculous. I dont think he beats jax (wrestler), Sonya. Kitana is even. Tanya is probably even to. Liu kang probably is 6-4 maybe 5-5 vs DF. Shinnok beating HQT is a stretch. I can see that match up being difficult for Shinnok. Hes similar to Kenshi in MK9 imo. Competes with the top tier but destroys the shitters. Just buff the shitters.

IMO Sonya loses to Tanya/Cassie/F/T. HQT could potentially be really bad as well. 6-4 vs QC (both var). 6-4 vs Scorpion. 6-4 vs Sub. 6-4 vs Jax. 5-5 vs Shinnok
 
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DarkFire*

DarkFire*

Your halo is mine.
Pig Of The Hut said:
Sorry but Cassie beats kenshi
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Hmm, I always thought this was a bad MU for her or at best 5-5. But then again I have beaten many Kenshis in tournament with her, its just I used to think they weren't playing the MU correctly. I still think I gotta play it more tho so for the moment I'll roll with it, maybe it is 6-4 her lol

Tho I still gotta say I respectfully disagree with the other ones I mentioned lol
 
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